Collecting a check

[dupuyer griz]

Demand is down, and prices are up. That seems odd.

well you don't understand the game of monopoly then do you hahaha I think it is really odd that all of the major oil companies pay at such a low actual rate if you look at the figures their actual federal tax number is between -5 and 10 percent while the richest individuals in the country are expected to pay over 20%. No political tie, just interesting...

 

[Silvertip]

When an airline fires a pilot they do so after the plane is safely on the ground, not while it's in mid-flight. You do have to consider the hundred or or so passengers on-board, you know...So be glad Royce Engstrom does not run your favorite air carrier. He would have the pilot immediately leave the cockpit and slip into a parachute...Sayonara!

When the NTSB board investigating the resulting crash subpoenaed Engstrom to explain his actions he would no doubt plead that it was an internal matter. i.e. nobody's business...

pretty good analogy imo, and we all know how often tip and I agree :thumb:

"Tues Apr 17 2012 10:05 am"...Tip & GB1 agree !?!?... This'll last about as long as one of those celebrity marriages. :grenade: LOL

 

[PlayerRep]

NOW you're getting into the spirit of things! :clap: :lol:

I may be taking this thread in a weird and off-track place, but.....the rise in gas prices might be a good thing. Why?, because it is entirely (or largely) attributable to the increase in economic activity associated with the economic recovery. Economy improves, demand for gas and diesel and fuel oil goes up, prices rise. If you want an economic recovery, it's likely the price of gas will go up as result. That's just how it works.

I think you have downs syndrome. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the inability to increase domestic production or build new refineries, it's totally because the economy is getting better. HAHAHA

Actually I don't have Downs Syndrome.

US oil production is at an all time high, and there are so many refineries in the US that some are being closed. In other words, the oil companies have concluded that the United States has too many refineries. So the increase in gasoline can't be attributed to either low domestic production or lack of refineries. It's clear, the rise in gas prices is attributable to the economic recovery and the resulting world wide increase in demand for crude oil. Sorry if that doesn't fit anybodies political agenda, but that's the facts.

Actually, the number of operating US refineries is exactly the same for 2011 and 2010. Over the last several decades, US refining capacity has increased, although the number of operating refineries has decreased.

http://205.254.135.7/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_nus_a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PlayerRep]

Demand is down, and prices are up. That seems odd.

well you don't understand the game of monopoly then do you hahaha I think it is really odd that all of the major oil companies pay at such a low actual rate if you look at the figures their actual federal tax number is between -5 and 10 percent while the richest individuals in the country are expected to pay over 20%. No political tie, just interesting...

Your tax numbers for oil companies are not enough close to being correct. Try getting them from a source that knows how to much those calculations.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Weird - I can see little correlation between these two lines.

 

[dupuyer griz]

Weird - I can see little correlation between these two lines.

I see a lot of correlation between those lones almost all of the up and down swings in price are accompanied by an opposite although from the graph not equal up or down. If we change the numbers on the graph we can make it look like there are large changes in production and little change in price, it's all about how you look at it. Ther price is changing in cents and production is changing in barrels. It's listed as percentage. if the price goes from $1 to $1.10 that's a 10% increase, if we produce 1000000 barrels of oil we would have to produce an addtional or lower 100000 barrels to show the same change. The change is there it is just small per the scale.

 

[BDizzle]

Geeze and I thought this was going to be about Welfare, not oil production.

I for one am very happy oil prices are so high. Makes my job that much easier which in turn makes my bonuses that much better.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

You must be squinting really hard, dupuyer.

 

[dupuyer griz]

You must be squinting really hard, dupuyer.

not really, they just correlate nicely, I would be interested in seeing them side by side with actual numbers instead of percentages of total. This isn't the whole story anyway, speculators and opec have a special spot down south waiting for them but this isn't what we should be talking about anyway, back to the task at hand. Go griz on to the championship.

 

[mcg]

Weird - I can see little correlation between these two lines.

I see a lot of correlation between those lones almost all of the up and down swings in price are accompanied by an opposite although from the graph not equal up or down. If we change the numbers on the graph we can make it look like there are large changes in production and little change in price, it's all about how you look at it. Ther price is changing in cents and production is changing in barrels. It's listed as percentage. if the price goes from $1 to $1.10 that's a 10% increase, if we produce 1000000 barrels of oil we would have to produce an addtional or lower 100000 barrels to show the same change. The change is there it is just small per the scale.

The reason that the price of gas and domestic crude production aren't related is that the United States consumes 25% of the worlds gasoline, but has only 2% of the worlds oil reserves. The price of crude is controlled by Saudi Arabia and they are more than willing to cut their production to offset any increase in production elsewhere.

 

[AZGrizFan]

When an airline fires a pilot they do so after the plane is safely on the ground, not while it's in mid-flight. You do have to consider the hundred or or so passengers on-board, you know...So be glad Royce Engstrom does not run your favorite air carrier. He would have the pilot immediately leave the cockpit and slip into a parachute...Sayonara!

When the NTSB board investigating the resulting crash subpoenaed Engstrom to explain his actions he would no doubt plead that it was an internal matter. i.e. nobody's business...

pretty good analogy imo, and we all know how often tip and I agree :thumb:

"Tues Apr 17 2012 10:05 am"...Tip & GB1 agree !?!?... This'll last about as long as one of those celebrity marriages. :grenade: LOL

Serious question (and getting this thread back on track from the ultimate in boring: gas prices vs demand discussion):

If, in your mind this was akin to firing the pilot "mid-flight", WHEN would you have had Engstrom fire Pflu? When would have been the opportune time?

 

[AllWeatherFan]

In 2015, after he had a bad season right on the heels of two national championships.

 

[mcg]

I may be taking this thread in a weird and off-track place, but.....the rise in gas prices might be a good thing. Why?, because it is entirely (or largely) attributable to the increase in economic activity associated with the economic recovery. Economy improves, demand for gas and diesel and fuel oil goes up, prices rise. If you want an economic recovery, it's likely the price of gas will go up as result. That's just how it works.

I think you have downs syndrome. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the inability to increase domestic production or build new refineries, it's totally because the economy is getting better. HAHAHA

Actually I don't have Downs Syndrome.

US oil production is at an all time high, and there are so many refineries in the US that some are being closed. In other words, the oil companies have concluded that the United States has too many refineries. So the increase in gasoline can't be attributed to either low domestic production or lack of refineries. It's clear, the rise in gas prices is attributable to the economic recovery and the resulting world wide increase in demand for crude oil. Sorry if that doesn't fit anybodies political agenda, but that's the facts.

Could you show historical data that coincides with this such as what happened to gas prices after the great depression because I'm almost certain prices in 1926 were 23 cents per gallon and didn't reach that level again until 1947 http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/2005/fcvt_fotw364.htmlso....I would also be interested in finding out where you got the information that we are shutting down refineries because there are just too darn many. I think some are gettin shut down because it isn't cost efficient to fix them up to scrubbing standards. Also, reguardless if domestic production is at an all time high so is demand. I'm sure economics have absolutely nothing to do with price it's probably fairy dust and magical thoughts.

ps, not sure if it helps your arguement, but here is the site that shows actual domestic production and that we are not in fact at an all time high
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...-obama-ad-says-us-oil-production-eight-year-/

It's foolish to try to draw any conclusion about today's energy markets from depression era data. The price of oil was completely controlled by the Texas Railroad Commission in the 1930's and the price of gasoline was fixed by the federal government in World War 2.

You are correct, production of crude oil in the United States peaked in 1970. It reached a minimum in 2008 and has increased by about 15% since. The reason that production peaked in 1970 was that there were vast amounts of cheap middle eastern crude coming to market. Source:

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The price of gas peaked at about $4 per gallon the week of July 14, 2008. It hit bottom (at about $1.59 per gallon) the week of December 29, 2008. I think it is reasonable to attribute this to the onset of the recession.

Source: (click on full history):

http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is an article about the closure of three refineries in Philadelphia, a large refinery in St. Croix and a smaller refinery in Aruba:

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/20/u-s-lawmakers-worry-about-east-coast-refining-capacity/?__lsa=99fd1608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It would seem unlikely that at least these four oil companies have much interest in building new facilities any time soon.

With that I am done. I think Pflu and Mr. O'day will be collecting pay checks for quite some time.

Go Griz, on to the Championship!

 

[Grizmayor]

I just got back... MY GOD, what happened to my thread??? :wtf:

 

[mcg]

I said Pflu and Mr. O'day will be collecting checks for a long time - right on track!

 

[Silvertip]

When an airline fires a pilot they do so after the plane is safely on the ground, not while it's in mid-flight. You do have to consider the hundred or or so passengers on-board, you know...So be glad Royce Engstrom does not run your favorite air carrier. He would have the pilot immediately leave the cockpit and slip into a parachute...Sayonara!

When the NTSB board investigating the resulting crash subpoenaed Engstrom to explain his actions he would no doubt plead that it was an internal matter. i.e. nobody's business...

pretty good analogy imo, and we all know how often tip and I agree :thumb:

"Tues Apr 17 2012 10:05 am"...Tip & GB1 agree !?!?... This'll last about as long as one of those celebrity marriages. :grenade: LOL

Serious question (and getting this thread back on track from the ultimate in boring: gas prices vs demand discussion):

If, in your mind this was akin to firing the pilot "mid-flight", WHEN would you have had Engstrom fire Pflu? When would have been the opportune time?

Serious Okay, but you can't leave O'Day out of the dialogue. First off, we all think we know that the reason they were canned has much to do in some measure, large or small, with the involvement of athletes in illegal, criminal and/or questionable activity - but we really don't know for sure. Engstrom may also have had a broader belief that as the saying goes " we need to take a different direction". O'Day and Pflugrad are not in jail and they haven't, as far as anybody knows, been charged with anything. My gut feeling is that both are probably culpable for sins of omission - not commission meaning they weren't sufficiently proactive in dealing with student/athlete problems to the degree they should have.

So, that said, why the inflight analogy?... If you find any merit in my perspective on the matter you have to ask yourself if the firing of the two highest profile administrators in the Adams Center six months before football season, without an apparent replacements plan in place, was warranted given the nature of the offenses which most all would believe were neither criminal nor reflective of immoral behavior. (BTW, Given the time frame I'm thinking the Delaney and Gee hires were afterthoughts). You might kick one leg out from under the table, but two dumps it on the floor. Every sport at UM has been impacted, from volleyball to basketball and tennis. In short, the president should have realized early on that there was considerable risk in giving in to the compulsion to fire both men simultaneously. I have no idea how long he stewed over the decision or who he might have counseled regarding the sagacity of doing it when he did, but I truly believe that delaying the Plugrad firing until after the football season would have been less disruptive followed by the O'Day dismissal if he still felt it appropriate. Would that have produced the firestorm we're witnessing? I don't think so.

Finally, Royce Engstroms' contention that by not stating publically the reasons for the terminations was done in part to avoid a savaging of the two men's reputations - well, that's total fairytale bull. People know full well that when people are fired with no reasons given that sadly it is human nature for detractors to make their own assumptions accusing them of everything imaginable - and unimaginable. And the victims are put in the awkward position of being unable to respond. And to what? Certainly not the truth! Engstrom's silence is doing untold harm to two men who, whatever their failings, deserve better. The president is a public employee, a hire of the state, his salary paid by taxpayers like you and me ( and yes, even living in CO I pay MT taxes on earned income). If not accountable to us, the BOR, or the governor - then who? Unfortunately, President Engstrom has set himself up as being accountable to no one but himself.

Windy, I know. Hope it answers your question at least in part...

 

[Spanky]

Good grief, Silvertip. You are getting as windy as Player.... :lol:

 

[PlayerRep]

Good grief, Silvertip. You are getting as windy as Player.... :lol:

Tip is also getting smarter.

 

[Grizmayor]

I said Pflu and Mr. O'day will be collecting checks for a long time - right on track!

Well, in essence, they're still employees of the University of Montana, correct? Still getting paid. Their only requirement is not to deal with the sports or football programs until their contracts, which have an ending date, finally expire. Correct? They're contract laborers... I don't think they're guarenteed a job for life. I think they'll collect a check until their contracts end, then look for a job like the rest of us. :roll:

 

[Growler1]

When an airline fires a pilot they do so after the plane is safely on the ground, not while it's in mid-flight. You do have to consider the hundred or or so passengers on-board, you know...So be glad Royce Engstrom does not run your favorite air carrier. He would have the pilot immediately leave the cockpit and slip into a parachute...Sayonara!

When the NTSB board investigating the resulting crash subpoenaed Engstrom to explain his actions he would no doubt plead that it was an internal matter. i.e. nobody's business...

It was all George Bush's fault.