Coaches?

[statler & waldorf]

Three weeks of weaker BSC teams for the OCs to coach up this offense, if they can. If not, the three games following could be extremely disappointing. 6-6 is a real possibility if they fail. It all begins Saturday.

 

[Ursa Major]

In today's GF Tribune Delaney seems to indicate that the scheme on offense isn't the problem but the mistakes and execution have the most effect on a struggling offense. I agree with statements as they refer to a young offensive line unable to execute but I disagree with the idea that this offensive coaching staff doesn't garner some of the blame. IMO Coach Delaney and the co-coordinators have designed a game plan that is easy to defend and difficult to execute with the players we have. Will they grow and get better..yes.
Will they win games...yes(defense) They can't ask a 3rd grader to pass a AP Calculus Exam and that's where I feel were at. Bottom line is we can and will beat teams that are less talented but will struggle against more experienced and better coached teams. Personally I have no idea where the learning curvre is for the o-line but teams like Cal Poly,Sac State and msu will give this offense fits if both scheme and execution don't improve and quick.

Bottom line is Delaney is unable to change and is going to stick with the things he is familiar with. Time will tell if we have the players on offense to succeed.

Go Griz!!

My general view, not specific to UM, is that an offensive system can't be changed, and shouldn't be changed, during a season. While adjustments can be made, and emphasis of play types within the existing system can be changed, it would be extremely difficult to significantly alter the system. There just isn't time to install and practice a new system. Coaches make adjustments within their system from week to week, but they stay within the system, and perhaps add a play or two or revive an existing play or two or so that hasn't been used or practiced much for some time.

For example, it is just not possible or wise to go from a balanced offense to a spread offense in mid-season. A spread offense takes alot of work and practice, to learn and to execute with precision. Running a spread/hurry-up offense usually comes with different conditioning, requiring more stamina for running more plays per game in a hurry-up fashion. Using a spread/hurry-up also requires coaches who are experienced in teaching and calling that type offense, as well as believing in it. By the way, I'm not suggesting that posters calling for major adjustments in the offense are wanting to move to a spread offense; this was just an example.

Lastly, some posters keep saying that UM's players were recruited for a spread offense. For the most part, that just isn't true, in my view. UM has generally recruited good high school players and good athletes, and taken the best available. For the most part, they have not recruited players just for one type of offense.

I agree with you, PR. Changing an entire system is something you implement at spring camp. That said, I think the most frustrating thing in watching our offense is the play-calling. We have bootlegs, quick slants, reverse plays, screens (other than the bubble), inside zone read, outside zone read, quick passes to the tight end dragging to the inside, pitches and curl patterns in our current panoply of plays. We just don't seem to use them as frequently as we should or at the right time. And, perhaps the most frustrating part, we don't go back to them after they do work. Many of these plays would seemingly play to our attributes (i.e. great skill players) and away from our weaknesses (i.e.offensive line). I'm not saying this is a panacea for all of our offensive woes and you still have to execute, but from my perspective we need to get better at what plays we call and when we call them. The plays are already a part of the system. Use them.

 

[mtgrizrule]

So then its not the system, its the coaches in the system.

No it's that we have two true freshman playing tackle because of injuries and we can't block some teams up front.

That is true. However, it is also true that it is the job of the coaches to implement proper strategy to lessen the burden on the young OL. How can they do that? Change their damn passing tree and emphasize quicker passing. They have yet to do that. Even in 20113, we had an experienced offensive line, yet why did they struggle against to consistently protect JJ and execute the passing game against playoff caliber teams? What is the common factor from year to year? The coaches and their strategy is the only thing in common. Why don't some fans understand this is on the coaches? To date, our offensive coordinators have not proven they are willing or able to make the necessary changes to better the offense and the team!!!

Interesting. Griz lost 3 games last year. In 1 game they lost 3 fumbles, 2 of which were returned for a touchdown (one a 98 yard return that was a swing of 14 points) while JJ threw for almost 300 yards.

In second loss JJ threw for almost 350 yards, and the O rolled up 480 yards and 37 points but the D gave up 42 points and 540 yards of O (457 through the air).

In the 3rd loss, in one of the coldest games in Griz playoff history, the Griz scored 35 points, rolled up 557 yards of O , including 388 passing yards, but turned the ball over on downs twice on 4th and 6 around the CC 30 (likely due to inconsistency of the kicker combined with cold weather making kicking FG a low probability). The defense gave up 42 points and 476 yards.

JJ was among the highest rated QB's in the country through the first 1/3rd of the season.

Based on all that you deduced the offensive coordinators don't know how to coach or scheme to protect the QB or have a productive passing game?

Christ sake, how many times have I stated/posted something like, under Delaney we have struggled against "PLAYOFF" caliber teams? Regardless of stats, in order for the GRIZ to improve they need to learn how to utilize the middle of the field, and quicker passing more frequently!!!! That is something this offensive staff has yet to establish game to game. Those things need to be a staple in the offense, every bit as much as the threat of the run game that Delaney always talks about!!!

Delaney's record is lousy against playoff caliber teams. The majority of that is caused by a combination of stupid in game decision making, and very little adjustments offensively. I, and others are saying that for this team to be more successful these things need to improve against "PLAYOFF" caliber teams. Admit or not, we have an inconsistent offense that cannot be relied upon consistently against better competition. As was pointed out earlier, our OL is young. That is the truth, but also being used as an excuse for falling short. It is the job of our staff to make things easier for the OL. To date, they have not made the necessary changes to make things easier for a young OL!!!! That is 100% on the staff.

Same can be said for EWU, but on defense. Their defense cannot be relied upon to bring their team to the highest level. At least their Offense is arguably the best in FCS. Our defense is great, but has a way to go before getting to elite fcs level. Either our offense improves and becomes consistent, or our defense has to be dominating every game. All I am saying is what I feel is keeping the GRIZ from being the team they have the potential to be.

 

[WaGriz4life]

I do not necessarily like the dual Offensive Coordinator idea either. But the statement it does not work anywhere is pretty narrow and short sighted. Football programs that use it include Florida State (defending FBS national Champions), Auburn, Michigan State and Ohio State to name a few. Those programs among others have had it work pretty well.

So then its not the system, its the coaches in the system.

No it's that we have two true freshman playing tackle because of injuries and we can't block some teams up front.

That is true. However, it is also true that it is the job of the coaches to implement proper strategy to lessen the burden on the young OL. How can they do that? Change their damn passing tree and emphasize quicker passing. They have yet to do that. Even in 20113, we had an experienced offensive line, yet why did they struggle against to consistently protect JJ and execute the passing game against playoff caliber teams? What is the common factor from year to year? The coaches and their strategy is the only thing in common. Why don't some fans understand this is on the coaches? To date, our offensive coordinators have not proven they are willing or able to make the necessary changes to better the offense and the team!!!

We pretty much didn't struggle on offense against any team we lost to last year. Our offense was good AS F*** last year. You thinking that running quick slants and "quicker passing" would have been good enough to beat NDSU last week is laughable. Kfense did not lose that game.

 

[mtgrizrule]

So then its not the system, its the coaches in the system.

No it's that we have two true freshman playing tackle because of injuries and we can't block some teams up front.

That is true. However, it is also true that it is the job of the coaches to implement proper strategy to lessen the burden on the young OL. How can they do that? Change their damn passing tree and emphasize quicker passing. They have yet to do that. Even in 20113, we had an experienced offensive line, yet why did they struggle against to consistently protect JJ and execute the passing game against playoff caliber teams? What is the common factor from year to year? The coaches and their strategy is the only thing in common. Why don't some fans understand this is on the coaches? To date, our offensive coordinators have not proven they are willing or able to make the necessary changes to better the offense and the team!!!

We pretty much didn't struggle on offense against any team we lost to last year. Our offense was good AS F*** last year. You thinking that running quick slants and "quicker passing" would have been good enough to beat NDSU last week is laughable. Kfense did not lose that game.

Did I once say it would have been good enough to beat NDSU? I have not one time said that. I am saying, these small subtle changes can help the offense be more consistent. In turn these small changes can "HELP" the offense be better. No Kfense did not lose that game. However, he has not made some simple tweaks to better the chances of winning. How long has this offense been relying on deep pass after deep pass? It has been far too long. Relying on long pass after long pass make even less sense when the team has to deal with an inexperienced OL.

Is it easier to pass block and keep the QB clean the less time blocks have to be sustained, or longer the blocks have to be sustained? The longer an OL has to maintain blocks the more risk there is to a QB being hit more often. I am not saying to abandon the long passing game. It is much more successful when there is more options for the defense to cover!!!! Longer passing attacks are more successful with experienced OLs. We do not have an experienced offensive line, hence the reason to adjust and implement quicker passing more often. This does not require changing the offensive formations. It is just a matter of adjusting the passing tree routes!!!! That is as basic as I can keep it. Yet, I am sure you will still disagree. If you or anyone choose to disagree, fine. I agree to respectfully disagree with you.

 

[Grizbeer]

Christ sake, how many times have I stated/posted something like, under Delaney we have struggled against "PLAYOFF" caliber teams? Regardless of stats, in order for the GRIZ to improve they need to learn how to utilize the middle of the field, and quicker passing more frequently!!!! That is something this offensive staff has yet to establish game to game. Those things need to be a staple in the offense, every bit as much as the threat of the run game that Delaney always talks about!!!

Delaney's record is lousy against playoff caliber teams. The majority of that is caused by a combination of stupid in game decision making, and very little adjustments offensively. I, and others are saying that for this team to be more successful these things need to improve against "PLAYOFF" caliber teams. Admit or not, we have an inconsistent offense that cannot be relied upon consistently against better competition. As was pointed out earlier, our OL is young. That is the truth, but also being used as an excuse for falling short. It is the job of our staff to make things easier for the OL. To date, they have not made the necessary changes to make things easier for a young OL!!!! That is 100% on the staff.

Same can be said for EWU, but on defense. Their defense cannot be relied upon to bring their team to the highest level. At least their Offense is arguably the best in FCS. Our defense is great, but has a way to go before getting to elite fcs level. Either our offense improves and becomes consistent, or our defense has to be dominating every game. All I am saying is what I feel is keeping the GRIZ from being the team they have the potential to be.

maybe I am confused - the 3 losses last year were all to playoff teams, and the offense produced 347, 489, and 557 yards against them. In 1 game it was uncharacteristic turnovers that lead to the loss, in the other 2 it was defensive lapses that lead to the loss.

I know you said to ignore the statistics, but are the statistics not facts? Shouldn't we consider them? Don't they tell the story of what really happened? Or are you saying the offense needs to roll up more than 600 yards per game to be consistent and beat playoff teams?

Clearly the Griz need to get better to be an elite team - better in all phases of the game. I just don't see how you can lay the losses last year on the offense (except for the fumbles against NAU, but I don't think you could blame those on the coaches). Is it remotely possible you are wrong and the coaches know better than you what they are doing? Probably not I suppose.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Christ sake, how many times have I stated/posted something like, under Delaney we have struggled against "PLAYOFF" caliber teams? Regardless of stats, in order for the GRIZ to improve they need to learn how to utilize the middle of the field, and quicker passing more frequently!!!! That is something this offensive staff has yet to establish game to game. Those things need to be a staple in the offense, every bit as much as the threat of the run game that Delaney always talks about!!!

Delaney's record is lousy against playoff caliber teams. The majority of that is caused by a combination of stupid in game decision making, and very little adjustments offensively. I, and others are saying that for this team to be more successful these things need to improve against "PLAYOFF" caliber teams. Admit or not, we have an inconsistent offense that cannot be relied upon consistently against better competition. As was pointed out earlier, our OL is young. That is the truth, but also being used as an excuse for falling short. It is the job of our staff to make things easier for the OL. To date, they have not made the necessary changes to make things easier for a young OL!!!! That is 100% on the staff.

Same can be said for EWU, but on defense. Their defense cannot be relied upon to bring their team to the highest level. At least their Offense is arguably the best in FCS. Our defense is great, but has a way to go before getting to elite fcs level. Either our offense improves and becomes consistent, or our defense has to be dominating every game. All I am saying is what I feel is keeping the GRIZ from being the team they have the potential to be.

maybe I am confused - the 3 losses last year were all to playoff teams, and the offense produced 347, 489, and 557 yards against them. In 1 game it was uncharacteristic turnovers that lead to the loss, in the other 2 it was defensive lapses that lead to the loss.

I know you said to ignore the statistics, but are the statistics not facts? Shouldn't we consider them? Don't they tell the story of what really happened? Or are you saying the offense needs to roll up more than 600 yards per game to be consistent and beat playoff teams?

Clearly the Griz need to get better to be an elite team - better in all phases of the game. I just don't see how you can lay the losses last year on the offense (except for the fumbles against NAU, but I don't think you could blame those on the coaches). Is it remotely possible you are wrong and the coaches know better than you what they are doing? Probably not I suppose.

Grizbeer, It goes back to Delaney's whole time as HC. Yes, statistically the offense held it's own. Let me ask you and others this, how often in Delaney's time as HC have the GRIZ consistently used short quick passing and utilized the field between the hashmarks in the passing game? Personally, I feel they very seldom utilize the middle of the field and quicker passing as part of the game plan. Our reliance on the long ball is too much. Relying on the long ball too often makes defending us easier. It also plays into the hands of a ball possession team like NDSU. Longer passes+ more incompletions= less time of possession for us, and more time/ opportunity for our opponents!!! For teams like EWU, it just gives them more opportunities to score more points and get into a shootout. Granted, time of possession is less important for quick strike offenses. Even last year, think back when our passing game was moving the ball most consistently. It was when we had to hurry up the offense, which meant JJ picking a defense apart with a good combination of quicker passing, usually outs and ins. JJ has proven when he has to do that, he can. He has shown it under Pflu, and at times under Delaney. The only time Delaney leta him do what he is capable of is when time is not on our side and we have to speed things up. Why doesn't the offensive staff take the reigns off JJ and let him do what he does best? It is a shame, we have a damn talented SR qb and dynamic skill position players, yet an offensive game plan that limits what they are capable of doing.

Good offenses move the ball consistently against defenses most the time, and very seldom struggle. Right now, our offense cannot be relied on consistently. Right now this offense does just enough against non playoff caliber teams. I am trying to respectfully point out the importance of diversifying the offense some by adding more simple things to it. Great offensive staffs implement these little things and make it become part of the game plan. They do this in order to not limit the offense, but to make it more difficult to stop. This offenses relies on power running and long passes way too often. Better offenses that can be relied on mix things up much better than the GRIZ staff does.

PR is right, this team is not too far off from being a great team. They can be that easier by our offensive staff making some slight adjustments and make the middle of the field and quicker passing every bit the threat as running and the long ball have been and are. I just don't understand why our offensive coaches are so hesitant to add these elements to our offense? Their strategy makes even less sense with an inexperienced OL.

I hope this makes a little more sense now. If not, I give up going round and round with you on this.

 

[grizpack]

... Do the coaches read egriz? I seriously doubt it. ...

I'd be amazed, and somewhat worried, if the coaching staff wasted time reading eGriz.

On the other hand, I would be worried if the AD did not at least have a staffer "keep track of sentiment" here. After all, for better or worse, this board is a place where die-hard Griz fans hang out and blow off steam. From a marketing standpoint, I would want to keep a finger on that pulse, even if I was not inclined to do anything immediate as a result. (But then, perhaps they're not that creative.)

Of course, the deadliest symptom for the program would be no activity at all -- meaning even the die-hard fans have lost interest.

You mean like tickets still being available for Homecoming this weekend?????? :?

 

[84GRIZ]

Griz offense needs to start running the slot receiver down the seam during practice. That route has been killing our defense ever since Gregorak has been DC. If they run it in practice maybe the D can learn to stop it once. Just watch the Coastal Carolina game.

 

[Maxim]

Does any one know for real:

Do the coaches ever read EGriz?
Do the coaches really even notice the Offense has problems?
Do the coaches know how effective JJ is at throwing from the rollout?
Do the coaches look at past film from say, 2011 when JJ was so outstanding?
Do coaches really care what fans think?

I am speaking specifically about the Griz coaching staff.
Seems to me with all the EGriz opinions on this board, our coaching staff should be the greatest ever....

1. Do the coaches ever read EGriz? Of course they do but mostly for entertainment purposes. The vast majority of opinions on egriz is more of a source of humor. Imagine if someone created a whole message board about your job, only seeing the final product and understanding about 15% - 20% of the effort into it and all the message board did was bitch about it.

2. Do the coaches know the offense has problems Yes, of course. The coaches want the offense to score 60 points per game just like the fans do. What they realize though is that they're limited by personnel and the opponents they play. They do the best they can with the players they have.

3. Do the coaches know how effective JJ is throwing on the rollout They keep track of that stuff, so yes. They also take into account other factors of what works and what doesn't work against the opponent and sometimes roll-outs aren't the best. Take NDSU for example, they have some of the fastest LBs in the FCS - too many rollouts was probably going to lead to an even more punishing day for JJ.

4. Do the coaches look at past film from 2011 on JJ Doubt it, they see him every single day in practice and use and prepare him for playing in the now, not from 2011.

5. Do the coaches really care what fans think Kind of an interesting question. My guess is that the coaches do care about the fans because they realize without the fans there is no program. They also realize that without especially the boosters in place they are extremely more limited than they currently are. That said I think they also consider a lot of the fans opinions to be simplistic, reactionary, and uninformed - for the most part.

Maybe a bad comparison but it could be like asking if our military commanders care about what US citizens think. There's an obvious recognition that they're there for the citizens but in many cases the individual citizens opinions are mostly worthless b/c they're simplistic, reactionary, and uninformed.

--------------

Just my guess there.

For the life of me I can't figure out what a realtor actually does. Obviously not much. Usually watching tv, and just getting people to sign paperwork. Wish we all had that easy. No talent needed. Heck, the even have so much time they can write randomly for blogs. Can you imagine someone actually bitching about your job? lol

BTW for #5, there is a clear difference between a "fan" and an "eGriz fan" so more likely to care about what fans in general think, not some psycho that posts over 1980 times.

edit....maybe that was 1976 times.

All good buddy, get your license and let's see how you do in the business if it's so easy.

Also one thing I enjoy about being self employed is that I can find time to post on this message board. Nice little perk.

Being an agent is quite competitive. But lets not kid ourselves that being an agent from a family of agents is quite an advantage over the average agent. Name recognition and being walked through the business is the bigger perk.