Clemson Football

[firmgriz]

I would love to agree that a school can waiver away its liability but the problem with that logic is nobody can make an informed decision to play football in the age of Covid because literally nobody has ever played football in the age of Covid so players, by definition, cannot make an informed decision to accept the risk because the risk is unknown until football actually resumes. Institutions cannot simply waive away that liability without taking a massive risk, even though SMU and others are attempting to do so.

I don't agree. People and players are informed of the risks, and then they can decide whether to play/sign.

Also, if the school is complying with the rules, and the player/person is informed and consents, what's the claim for liability?

Of course, what do I know. I have only advised on risk and matters like this for 45 years.

The claim for liability could lie in the fact that a player cannot be truly and adequately “informed” and provide consent about a risk that literally nobody on the planet really understands because this is an issue of first impression. Never in the history of mankind have people played football with Covid. With that being the case any effort to “inform” a player of the risk is merely a guess. It may be significantly more risky than anyone understands. We won’t know until the games start. I hope not, although in the meantime it is interesting to discuss the legal hypotheticals. I’m not questioning your credentials after 45 years in the biz but this is a first for even you PR.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

I don't agree. People and players are informed of the risks, and then they can decide whether to play/sign.

Also, if the school is complying with the rules, and the player/person is informed and consents, what's the claim for liability?

Of course, what do I know. I have only advised on risk and matters like this for 45 years.

The claim for liability could lie in the fact that a player cannot be truly and adequately “informed” and provide consent about a risk that literally nobody on the planet really understands because this is an issue of first impression. Never in the history of mankind have people played football with Covid. With that being the case any effort to “inform” a player of the risk is merely a guess. It may be significantly more risky than anyone understands. We won’t know until the games start. I hope not, although in the meantime it is interesting to discuss the legal hypotheticals. I’m not questioning your credentials after 45 years in the biz but this is a first for even you PR.

This seems like a strange argument to me regarding a sport that is, at the best of times, highly risky in and of itself. Even in a regular year, there is no way to comprehensively explain all of the risks involved, therefore each person must decide for themselves if they are willing to accept the risks, or not. I honestly don't see how the university could be found liable for a virus. Maybe I'm naive but that just seems silly.

Furthermore, while this is a new virus, it's certainly not the first one we have faced as a country nor will it be the last. The data says that young, healthy people are at very low risk for serious outcomes from this virus, so why not let them sign waivers and play sports?

 

[firmgriz]

The claim for liability could lie in the fact that a player cannot be truly and adequately “informed” and provide consent about a risk that literally nobody on the planet really understands because this is an issue of first impression. Never in the history of mankind have people played football with Covid. With that being the case any effort to “inform” a player of the risk is merely a guess. It may be significantly more risky than anyone understands. We won’t know until the games start. I hope not, although in the meantime it is interesting to discuss the legal hypotheticals. I’m not questioning your credentials after 45 years in the biz but this is a first for even you PR.

This seems like a strange argument to me regarding a sport that is, at the best of times, highly risky in and of itself. Even in a regular year, there is no way to comprehensively explain all of the risks involved, therefore each person must decide for themselves if they are willing to accept the risks, or not. I honestly don't see how the university could be found liable for a virus. Maybe I'm naive but that just seems silly.

Furthermore, while this is a new virus, it's certainly not the first one we have faced as a country nor will it be the last. The data says that young, healthy people are at very low risk for serious outcomes from this virus, so why not let them sign waivers and play sports?

I don’t disagree with you at all. My question is only about the degree to which informed consent underlies the waiver.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

This seems like a strange argument to me regarding a sport that is, at the best of times, highly risky in and of itself. Even in a regular year, there is no way to comprehensively explain all of the risks involved, therefore each person must decide for themselves if they are willing to accept the risks, or not. I honestly don't see how the university could be found liable for a virus. Maybe I'm naive but that just seems silly.

Furthermore, while this is a new virus, it's certainly not the first one we have faced as a country nor will it be the last. The data says that young, healthy people are at very low risk for serious outcomes from this virus, so why not let them sign waivers and play sports?

I don’t disagree with you at all. My question is only about the degree to which informed consent underlies the waiver.

Ah, okay. Then I defer to PR, because I'm not a lawyer.

And, I'll add that if spectators have to sign a waiver in order to attend the games, I will happily do it because as long as there's a season, I plan to get on a plane and get my butt to a home game.

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't agree. People and players are informed of the risks, and then they can decide whether to play/sign.

Also, if the school is complying with the rules, and the player/person is informed and consents, what's the claim for liability?

Of course, what do I know. I have only advised on risk and matters like this for 45 years.

The claim for liability could lie in the fact that a player cannot be truly and adequately “informed” and provide consent about a risk that literally nobody on the planet really understands because this is an issue of first impression. Never in the history of mankind have people played football with Covid. With that being the case any effort to “inform” a player of the risk is merely a guess. It may be significantly more risky than anyone understands. We won’t know until the games start. I hope not, although in the meantime it is interesting to discuss the legal hypotheticals. I’m not questioning your credentials after 45 years in the biz but this is a first for even you PR.

There's no claim there. Nothing to worry about.

 

[PlayerRep]

The claim for liability could lie in the fact that a player cannot be truly and adequately “informed” and provide consent about a risk that literally nobody on the planet really understands because this is an issue of first impression. Never in the history of mankind have people played football with Covid. With that being the case any effort to “inform” a player of the risk is merely a guess. It may be significantly more risky than anyone understands. We won’t know until the games start. I hope not, although in the meantime it is interesting to discuss the legal hypotheticals. I’m not questioning your credentials after 45 years in the biz but this is a first for even you PR.

This seems like a strange argument to me regarding a sport that is, at the best of times, highly risky in and of itself. Even in a regular year, there is no way to comprehensively explain all of the risks involved, therefore each person must decide for themselves if they are willing to accept the risks, or not. I honestly don't see how the university could be found liable for a virus. Maybe I'm naive but that just seems silly.

Furthermore, while this is a new virus, it's certainly not the first one we have faced as a country nor will it be the last. The data says that young, healthy people are at very low risk for serious outcomes from this virus, so why not let them sign waivers and play sports?

I agree. It's also not the first risk faced by a football player, college worker/coach, or fan.

 

[PlayerRep]

I don’t disagree with you at all. My question is only about the degree to which informed consent underlies the waiver.

Ah, okay. Then I defer to PR, because I'm not a lawyer.

And, I'll add that if spectators have to sign a waiver in order to attend the games, I will happily do it because as long as there's a season, I plan to get on a plane and get my butt to a home game.

I agree. If there is big risk, there won't be fans, or a season. Outside is good. Social distancing is good. Space coming in or out of stadium and to bathroom. Heck, wear a mask. Maybe I will too.

 

[ilovethecats]

Ah, okay. Then I defer to PR, because I'm not a lawyer.

And, I'll add that if spectators have to sign a waiver in order to attend the games, I will happily do it because as long as there's a season, I plan to get on a plane and get my butt to a home game.

I agree. If there is big risk, there won't be fans, or a season. Outside is good. Social distancing is good. Space coming in or out of stadium and to bathroom. Heck, wear a mask. Maybe I will too.

Pretty simple. Coaches who wanna coach sign a waiver and coach. Players that wanna play sign a waiver and play. Fans who wanna cheer, sign a waiver if need be and get in your seat. Live your lives.

Anyone not comfortable with any of those options, just stay home, stay safe.

 

[gotgame75]

I don't agree. People and players are informed of the risks, and then they can decide whether to play/sign.

Also, if the school is complying with the rules, and the player/person is informed and consents, what's the claim for liability?

Of course, what do I know. I have only advised on risk and matters like this for 45 years.

What was the last pandemic that you advised on? Asking for a friend.

Haven't you heard of the notorious genital wart breakout from the Finley Point Griz Circle Jerk of the Summer of 2009?! PR not only participated, he mopped the changing room floors as well. Unfortunately, he tore his prostate picking up one of the many names he dropped and had sit to on the sidelines for the second half of the weekend providing camaraderie, lube, and refreshments.

 

[dayday]

Another lawyer here. I’d just say for the people saying just sign a waiver and that waives liability. Those waivers mean literally nothing. Interesting legal question though because of the many factors of world wide pandemic. I do not think it as simple as saying no liability but assuming the schools are doing everything the medical experts are advising then hard to say they are violating some duty of care to the players. Definitely not a easy answer especially in a state like Montana there could be a colorable claim under the right circumstance.