can't stop 3rd and 17

[IdaGriz01]

So we actually can't stop 3rd and 17?

Or make 3rd-and-one

It was actually FOURTH & 17.

And 4th & about 6 inches for us...

Against a defense that was #7 nationally in Tackles for Loss ... so not that much of a surprise. Have not been able to find TFL stats for the game, but I suspect it was ugly against the Griz. Again, not a huge surprise with such an inexperienced OL, but something that must get fixed. (And I'm confident it will.)

 

[IVLIANVS]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

 

[Grizzly96]

At the end of the day......The Griz found a way to WIN the game against what was the #13 team in the nation. Did anyone really think that some of the issues of the past several years wouldn’t still be present? With young players, new players, new defense, and new head coach..... how could such a play happen? The difference is this year they actually found a way to pull out the win, which hasn’t been the case the past several years(ex. EW last year).

I guarantee you the coaches addressed areas needed for improvement in all three phases of the game. I was encouraged by the overall intensity of the team and believe each week they will get better. Giving up a first on 4th and 17 was disappointing, but it sure beats the hell out of giving it up and LOSING.

FTC

 

[DuCharme]

I think most of us bought into the commentary. They were convinced it was “a bad call” and that the ref gave the player “the roll”. I know I did.

 

[AZGrizFan]

So we actually can't stop 3rd and 17?

Or make 3rd-and-one

It was actually FOURTH & 17.

And 4th & about 6 inches for us...

Against a defense that was #7 nationally in Tackles for Loss ... so not that much of a surprise. Have not been able to find TFL stats for the game, but I suspect it was ugly against the Griz. Again, not a huge surprise with such an inexperienced OL, but something that must get fixed. (And I'm confident it will.)

UNI had ONE official TFL for 4 yards. I'm guessing that was on the pass to Curran where he spun out of a tackle and then went BACKWARDS 4 yards and was tackled again.
UM, on the other hand, had 5 TFL's for a total of 31 yards.

 

[IdaGriz01]

...
Against a defense that was #7 nationally in Tackles for Loss ... so not that much of a surprise. Have not been able to find TFL stats for the game, but I suspect it was ugly against the Griz. Again, not a huge surprise with such an inexperienced OL, but something that must get fixed. (And I'm confident it will.)

UNI had ONE official TFL for 4 yards. I'm guessing that was on the pass to Curran where he spun out of a tackle and then went BACKWARDS 4 yards and was tackled again.
UM, on the other hand, had 5 TFL's for a total of 31 yards.

Thanks for the info.

I must say I am surprised. With all the run attempts that "went nowhere," I figured TFLs would be much higher. So even though UNI stuffed the Griz running game (75 yard total, most of that being Sneed runs), they didn't blow it up with a lot of tackles/sacks in the backfield. That, to me, is another positive sign.

 

[PlayerRep]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

My guess is that UM was in some sort of zone coverage, at least on that side of the field. In zone coverage, there are weak spots and holes. This throw went to the 6'3", 245 TE. While I don't know where he came from, my guess is that he came out late, either by coming from the other side of the field, or blocking first, and then releasing and sneaking out. In the photo, you can see our defenders, a backer and a d-back, recognizing late what was happening and desperately trying to get to the play. Obviously, they were not close to it. The throw was so weak and not far enough, that I wonder if the qb had rolled to the right a bit, or was looking right, and then turned and lobbed it up as he was about to get hit.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

My guess is that UM was in some sort of zone coverage, at least on that side of the field. In zone coverage, there are weak spots and holes. This throw went to the 6'3", 245 TE. While I don't know where he came from, my guess is that he came out late, either by coming from the other side of the field, or blocking first, and then releasing and sneaking out. In the photo, you can see our defenders, a backer and a d-back, recognizing late what was happening and desperately trying to get to the play. Obviously, they were not close to it. The throw was so weak and not far enough, that I wonder if the qb had rolled to the right a bit, or was looking right, and then turned and lobbed it up as he was about to get hit.

It was a 3-3-5 zone. the safety had the far side under zone 15-25. The route was not originally a curl by the TE and he was supposed to come across the field as the QB was looking right. He saw the coverage and ducked to the outside and the QB used his 3rd read to sling it out there. Safety was playing to not give up anything behind him and was actually in postion to close on the original route. The TE ducked outside at the first down marker and because the saftey was playing buffer to not give up anything past him and because he was playing inside(like the original route) He was about 4 yards back when the TE curled. This made it seem like we were out of position but actually we had pretty good coverage on the play. The QB threw the ball all the way from the far hash to make that pass and it was a little short. The catch was right at the marker..probably short but who knows. Both our players were reading the QB and the play development.

 

[PlayerRep]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

My guess is that UM was in some sort of zone coverage, at least on that side of the field. In zone coverage, there are weak spots and holes. This throw went to the 6'3", 245 TE. While I don't know where he came from, my guess is that he came out late, either by coming from the other side of the field, or blocking first, and then releasing and sneaking out. In the photo, you can see our defenders, a backer and a d-back, recognizing late what was happening and desperately trying to get to the play. Obviously, they were not close to it. The throw was so weak and not far enough, that I wonder if the qb had rolled to the right a bit, or was looking right, and then turned and lobbed it up as he was about to get hit.

It was a 3-3-5 zone. the safety had the far side under zone 15-25. The route was not originally a curl by the TE and he was supposed to come across the field as the QB was looking right. He saw the coverage and ducked to the outside and the QB used his 3rd read to sling it out there. Safety was playing to not give up anything behind him and was actually in postion to close on the original route. The TE ducked outside at the first down marker and because the saftey was playing buffer to not give up anything past him and because he was playing inside(like the original route) He was about 4 yards back when the TE curled. This made it seem like we were out of position but actually we had pretty good coverage on the play. The QB threw the ball all the way from the far hash to make that pass and it was a little short. The catch was right at the marker..probably short but who knows. Both our players were reading the QB and the play development.

Was TE lined up on the offensive left side of field? Thanks for the detail. This is what I had thought must have occurred generally. From just looking at the photo.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

My guess is that UM was in some sort of zone coverage, at least on that side of the field. In zone coverage, there are weak spots and holes. This throw went to the 6'3", 245 TE. While I don't know where he came from, my guess is that he came out late, either by coming from the other side of the field, or blocking first, and then releasing and sneaking out. In the photo, you can see our defenders, a backer and a d-back, recognizing late what was happening and desperately trying to get to the play. Obviously, they were not close to it. The throw was so weak and not far enough, that I wonder if the qb had rolled to the right a bit, or was looking right, and then turned and lobbed it up as he was about to get hit.

It was a 3-3-5 zone. the safety had the far side under zone 15-25. The route was not originally a curl by the TE and he was supposed to come across the field as the QB was looking right. He saw the coverage and ducked to the outside and the QB used his 3rd read to sling it out there. Safety was playing to not give up anything behind him and was actually in postion to close on the original route. The TE ducked outside at the first down marker and because the saftey was playing buffer to not give up anything past him and because he was playing inside(like the original route) He was about 4 yards back when the TE curled. This made it seem like we were out of position but actually we had pretty good coverage on the play. The QB threw the ball all the way from the far hash to make that pass and it was a little short. The catch was right at the marker..probably short but who knows. Both our players were reading the QB and the play development.

Was TE lined up on the offensive left side of field? Thanks for the detail. This is what I had thought must have occurred generally. From just looking at the photo.

Yes the TE was lined up on the left side and was drifting toward the right. The design looks as if he was supposed to post in at about 15 yards instead he curled out flat which you can tell was not the design because it was not a true curl. He turned out awkwardly and was too far forward so he had to wait for the ball rather than just grabbing it. If he would have completed the curl and attacked the ball there was no way he was gonna get a first. he just kinda curled and stopped and waited. it was a good move by him because he read zone and saw the safety inside. The QB happened to look back left just as he cut off the route and threw it over there. The initial 2 reads on the play were covered.

 

[fanofzoo]

Can we please get rid of this topic, every time I see it bad memories come back and bad memories start. 3rd and 17 wtf

 

[jodcon]

Can we please get rid of this topic, every time I see it bad memories come back and bad memories start. 3rd and 17 wtf

It's who we are. Admitting that is the first step to recovery.

 

[GoldenEagle]

If you don't get pressure on the Drake QB, there won't be any 3rd and long situations.

 

[RobGriz]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

My guess is that UM was in some sort of zone coverage, at least on that side of the field. In zone coverage, there are weak spots and holes. This throw went to the 6'3", 245 TE. While I don't know where he came from, my guess is that he came out late, either by coming from the other side of the field, or blocking first, and then releasing and sneaking out. In the photo, you can see our defenders, a backer and a d-back, recognizing late what was happening and desperately trying to get to the play. Obviously, they were not close to it. The throw was so weak and not far enough, that I wonder if the qb had rolled to the right a bit, or was looking right, and then turned and lobbed it up as he was about to get hit.

It was a 3-3-5 zone. the safety had the far side under zone 15-25. The route was not originally a curl by the TE and he was supposed to come across the field as the QB was looking right. He saw the coverage and ducked to the outside and the QB used his 3rd read to sling it out there. Safety was playing to not give up anything behind him and was actually in postion to close on the original route. The TE ducked outside at the first down marker and because the saftey was playing buffer to not give up anything past him and because he was playing inside(like the original route) He was about 4 yards back when the TE curled. This made it seem like we were out of position but actually we had pretty good coverage on the play. The QB threw the ball all the way from the far hash to make that pass and it was a little short. The catch was right at the marker..probably short but who knows. Both our players were reading the QB and the play development.

Actually the Griz ran a blitz out of their regular 4-2-5 package. UNI had three wide to the field side with their TE on the inside. He ran a curl/out route to the sticks while the two receivers to the outside ran go routes. That route was designed, not an ad lib by the TE. Your theory that he was supposed to run to the right because the QB was looking to the right is hilarious though, especially considering he barely glanced to his right.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

My guess is that UM was in some sort of zone coverage, at least on that side of the field. In zone coverage, there are weak spots and holes. This throw went to the 6'3", 245 TE. While I don't know where he came from, my guess is that he came out late, either by coming from the other side of the field, or blocking first, and then releasing and sneaking out. In the photo, you can see our defenders, a backer and a d-back, recognizing late what was happening and desperately trying to get to the play. Obviously, they were not close to it. The throw was so weak and not far enough, that I wonder if the qb had rolled to the right a bit, or was looking right, and then turned and lobbed it up as he was about to get hit.

It was a 3-3-5 zone. the safety had the far side under zone 15-25. The route was not originally a curl by the TE and he was supposed to come across the field as the QB was looking right. He saw the coverage and ducked to the outside and the QB used his 3rd read to sling it out there. Safety was playing to not give up anything behind him and was actually in postion to close on the original route. The TE ducked outside at the first down marker and because the saftey was playing buffer to not give up anything past him and because he was playing inside(like the original route) He was about 4 yards back when the TE curled. This made it seem like we were out of position but actually we had pretty good coverage on the play. The QB threw the ball all the way from the far hash to make that pass and it was a little short. The catch was right at the marker..probably short but who knows. Both our players were reading the QB and the play development.

Actually the Griz ran a blitz out of their regular 4-2-5 package. UNI had three wide to the field side with their TE on the inside. He ran a curl/out route to the sticks while the two receivers to the outside ran go routes. That route was designed, not an ad lib by the TE. Your theory that he was supposed to run to the right because the QB was looking to the right is hilarious though, especially considering he barely glanced to his right.

Sorry but you are incorrect. It was a 3-3-5 we had 3 lineman in the game. Yes we brought a fourth man. Yes they had 3 wide to the field but it was still zone and there is no chance that was a designed route. No way the QB takes 3 steps right and stays looking right that long unless you have an inside route coming across. Doesn’t matter but I don’t think any coach is dumb enough to design a 17 yard flat curl to the far numbers. Unless they are just trying to pull players away from other routes. Highly unlikley as the TE was and is their best pass receiver. We had coverage under the center and the safety playing inside the TE. It was good coverage. The throw was lucky, the spot was lucky and if that was designed they should fire anyone involved with call or designing it

 

[PlayerRep]

Let's do to the video.

 

[DriscollCat]

My pitiful 2¢ - regardless of the spot call and the missed review - our defenders left them enough space to get the first down with extra breathing room. Had the call gone the other way, it would not have been to the credit of our defenders, but attributed to the mistakes of their offense.

Even if you can convince yourself that it was pressure on the QB that caused that ball to be thrown short, causing the spot to be less than the first down, our defense still allowed Howell too much time. Enough time to watch his receiver get 17+ yards downfield with separation, and then under throw that catchable ball to him. That is the kind of thing that the pass rush should not have allowed to happen on a 4th down.

Like I said, my 2¢, which is probably worth about just that much.

This is a good point. And regardless of the scheme and whether the coverage was technically out of position, they were not in position to prevent the 17 yard gain, even if you disagree with the call. It is only one mistake in a long game that the griz won, but the point stands nonetheless.

 

[RobGriz]

My guess is that UM was in some sort of zone coverage, at least on that side of the field. In zone coverage, there are weak spots and holes. This throw went to the 6'3", 245 TE. While I don't know where he came from, my guess is that he came out late, either by coming from the other side of the field, or blocking first, and then releasing and sneaking out. In the photo, you can see our defenders, a backer and a d-back, recognizing late what was happening and desperately trying to get to the play. Obviously, they were not close to it. The throw was so weak and not far enough, that I wonder if the qb had rolled to the right a bit, or was looking right, and then turned and lobbed it up as he was about to get hit.

It was a 3-3-5 zone. the safety had the far side under zone 15-25. The route was not originally a curl by the TE and he was supposed to come across the field as the QB was looking right. He saw the coverage and ducked to the outside and the QB used his 3rd read to sling it out there. Safety was playing to not give up anything behind him and was actually in postion to close on the original route. The TE ducked outside at the first down marker and because the saftey was playing buffer to not give up anything past him and because he was playing inside(like the original route) He was about 4 yards back when the TE curled. This made it seem like we were out of position but actually we had pretty good coverage on the play. The QB threw the ball all the way from the far hash to make that pass and it was a little short. The catch was right at the marker..probably short but who knows. Both our players were reading the QB and the play development.

Actually the Griz ran a blitz out of their regular 4-2-5 package. UNI had three wide to the field side with their TE on the inside. He ran a curl/out route to the sticks while the two receivers to the outside ran go routes. That route was designed, not an ad lib by the TE. Your theory that he was supposed to run to the right because the QB was looking to the right is hilarious though, especially considering he barely glanced to his right.

Sorry but you are incorrect. It was a 3-3-5 we had 3 lineman in the game. Yes we brought a fourth man. Yes they had 3 wide to the field but it was still zone and there is no chance that was a designed route. No way the QB takes 3 steps right and stays looking right that long unless you have an inside route coming across. Doesn’t matter but I don’t think any coach is dumb enough to design a 17 yard flat curl to the far numbers. Unless they are just trying to pull players away from other routes. Highly unlikley as the TE was and is their best pass receiver. We had coverage under the center and the safety playing inside the TE. It was good coverage. The throw was lucky, the spot was lucky and if that was designed they should fire anyone involved with call or designing it

You count incorrectly https://youtu.be/HgqU1k5WM90
DE- Nelson
DT- Shaw
DT- Sims
DE- Tillman

Also, he drops straight back, takes a quick glance at his check down and only plants his back foot to the right, which would make sense given the direction he’s throwing the ball. You should never talk about football again.

 

[AZGrizFan]

That play was designed to go to the QB’s left. No doubt about it. Our defender just gave too much space.

Also, watching that link again, I still think a challenge was warranted. Yes, his KNEE is down beyond the 1st down marker, but the BALL never crosses the 1st down line.

 

[fanofzoo]

deja vu all over again, today