Can Anyone Tell Me..................

[GRZFTBL]

Duke lacrosse didnt have a decade of criminal activity. So it not even close to the same thing. The person that posted that is trying to spin the attention away from the real problem at UM.

He is part of the rape is ok crowd as long as the Griz win football games. It doesnt matter that we have had 26 reported incidents since 2005 and thats not including the multiple incidents that havent been reported. The numbers alone prove there is a problem at UM that simply doesnt happen every year at every other school.

The way some od you go out of your way to defend criminal behavior is sickening and way worse than rape.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

The diff between some of our Griz doing shit they shouldn't and you (and me) doing shit you (we) shouldn't is 26 of them have been caught. :thumb:

 

[BWahlberg]

Exactly what is your purpose here anymore..

I told you so's ?
See I was right ?
No one listened to me when I said .. ?

Its getting old.
Your a class A (wait, make that 1-AA) douche bag and everyone knows it. You're all smiles and a happy happy good guy in person and then turn into a huge DICK online.

If you don't like the team, find a new one to piss on.

Girl, don't go away mad.. just go away.

'Nuff Said
--------
P.S. Directed DIRECTLY at Alpha.. in case it wasn't clear.

GGG sighting!

 

[MrTitleist]

Whoa.. GGG posted. Must be getting chilly in Oregon!

 

[stubbins]

"griz arrests by year
2012 - 3 (donaldson, maus)
2011 - 5 (kemp, Tru johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 4 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius)
2008 - 7 (freeman, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 1 (parks)
2006 - 0
2005 - 0

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 1 Roots

From 2005 to 2008 there were 8 arrests. Wilson was arrested but ultimately found not guilty so there may be an arguement for 7 arrests in that time period.
From 2009 to present there have been 16 arrests and counting. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Pflugrad hired as an assistant in 2009 and assumed HC in 2010. Since Pflugrad arrived the arrest count has doubled for now.
I wonder if there is a connection?

:roll: ....now i've seen it all, you hate him so much that you are now going blame him when he was the coach, when he wasn't the coach, and once in 2005 when he drove through west yellowstone. Just by being in Montana he caused players to do stupid shit. Also, one time while in oregon he watched "a river runs through it," which of course was filmed in Montana, and a 20 year old student, doing stupid shit, was arrested the next day.

 

[yellowstone60]

Alpha.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQrMA4IDSiw[/youtube]

 

[WaGriz4life]

Alpha was a Pflu supporter from the beginning. AG is trying to deflect the attention to Coach Hauck now that Pflu has not had his contract renewed. Pflu lost his contract most likely for lack of leadership and team discipline. The fact is the off field issues increased exponentially under Pflu. Pflu was really in a fog when he defended JJ whether JJ is guilty or not. AG now would be a good time to admit you were wrong about Pflu.

Pflu recruits charged with a crime: Middleton, Montana, Maus (Two are transfers and one is a walk-on)

Now lets see Hauck's: Donaldson, Kemp, Tru Johnson, Jimmy Wilson, Stuberg, Swink, Von Appen, Douglas, Montellius, Coleman, Shelton, Pate, Homec, Quinn, Freeman, Lipiski, Smith.

I might be wrong on some of these guys actually being charged, but even if you take out a few it's still not even close.

 

[argh!]

i think engstrom did the right thing and i'm practically a commie pinko, sunshine.

quit yer stereotypin'.

 

[Ursa Major]

cclarkblues is asking the right questions. And no matter what anybody says, there are no easy answers.

Any player who is accused of misconduct deserves some due process. The question is, what process is due? Obviously, the university doesn't need to do an investigation of a student athlete's potential misconduct that establishes proof of guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt," or anything like that, but how about "a preponderance of the evidence" or "clear and convincing evidence" or some other reasonable standard?

You can't just say "no due process." That's B.S. Peoples' lives can be ruined by completely false accusations. You have to do some fact-finding and find out if there's anything to the charges, whether they're civil or criminal. And in criminal cases, like it or not, it might be completely reasonable to defer to the criminal justice system.

And, in deciding what the penalty should be, of course you have to consider: (1) the seriousness of the "offense," (2) whether the student-athlete has been in trouble in the past, (3) how the student-athlete responds to the investigation (i.e., does the individual cooperate fully, does the individual tell the truth, does the individual express a genuine intent to change his/her behavior), etc.

It's easy to say that people should be fired or not fired, that kids should be kicked off a team or not, etc. Any idiot can have an opinion on that stuff. What's hard is being in a position of responsibility to make those kinds of decisions.

It looks to me like the University needs to devote a whole lot more resources to investigating these types of matters and making educated decisions on what should be done in response. And it can't be left completely to the coaches - they don't have the time or expertise. The AD needs to be very involved in these decisions, in consultation with the coaches and the people who do the compliance work.

Like I said, it's not simple. So let's all be civil and discuss it like adults. Wait, I don't mean "adult" as in that other thread.

Best post of the week! After reading some of the posts this week I thought we had changed our school colors to black and white. Nice to see some rational thought being exercised! Our problems will not be solved by using zero tolerance measures or turning a blind eye on the impact a player in trouble with the law has on our university. It will sometimes be very difficult to balance the rights of the player and what is best for the university. But it's the right thing to do.

 

[Growler1]

i think engstrom did the right thing and i'm practically a commie pinko, sunshine.

quit yer stereotypin'.

Yeah, but you are a wit, and some of these pin heads are only half of you.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Exactly what is your purpose here anymore..

I told you so's ?
See I was right ?
No one listened to me when I said .. ?

Its getting old.
Your a class A (wait, make that 1-AA) douche bag and everyone knows it. You're all smiles and a happy happy good guy in person and then turn into a huge DICK online.

If you don't like the team, find a new one to piss on.

Girl, don't go away mad.. just go away.

'Nuff Said
--------
P.S. Directed DIRECTLY at Alpha.. in case it wasn't clear.

Are you still mad that your friend has 11 DUIs and I called him on it?

Anytime you want to chat face to face you know where to find me and I will gladly talk about any topic you want.

Enjoy Oregon...............

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[zengriz]

...the whole saudi student deal...
...to coin an old phraze...
...gravelz my azz...

... ...

 

[Geddes]

I have a great idea, but I need help with the promotional aspect, as I am not a soul-less marketing shitdick..

E-Grizomania 1, under the lights, April 14th 2012..

-AG1 vs. the guy with the painted face, in a strap match..

-Growler vs. Player, winner gets a cookie..

after that, I need help filling the card..


I probably could track down some Floyd County moonshine, if need be..

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Stubbins-- no I do not hate Pflu. I just do not think his discipline methods were respected by some of the players. WaGriz-- it's not about whose recruits got arrested but it is all about being able to control and discipline the members of the team.
I suspect certain team members did not worry about the consequences of bad behavior under Pflu and as such would take the chance on such behavior.

 

[GoodGodGriz]

Exactly what is your purpose here anymore..

I told you so's ?
See I was right ?
No one listened to me when I said .. ?

Its getting old.
Your a class A (wait, make that 1-AA) douche bag and everyone knows it. You're all smiles and a happy happy good guy in person and then turn into a huge DICK online.

If you don't like the team, find a new one to piss on.

Girl, don't go away mad.. just go away.

'Nuff Said
--------
P.S. Directed DIRECTLY at Alpha.. in case it wasn't clear.

Are you still mad that your friend has 11 DUIs and I called him on it?

Anytime you want to chat face to face you know where to find me and I will gladly talk about any topic you want.

Enjoy Oregon...............

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

------------------
No, you're just a two faced prick, not mad about the DUI guy..
Although that was about as shitty a thing a person could do. You could really use some therapy.

Enjoying OR just fine, thanks for asking.

 

[ilovethecats]

well this is confusing. i assumed these two were close buddies. wasn't it alpha trying to pool together funds to get ggg back to montana for cat-griz?! :?

i need to pay more attention. or maybe all the current turmoil is creating griz on griz violence.

 

[Geddes]

Like sand through the hour glass, so are the days of our lives..

I believe Aristotle said that..

 

[WaGriz4life]

Stubbins-- no I do not hate Pflu. I just do not think his discipline methods were not respected by some of the players. WaGriz-- it's not about whose recruits got arrested but it is all about being able to control and discipline the members of the team.
I suspect certain team members did not worry about the consequences of bad behavior under Pflu and as such would take the chance on such behavior.

Right because players were soooooooo scared of Bobby Hauck's "discipline" that nothing ever happened under his watch. :roll:

If you really think a coach can control his players at all once they leave the facility than you are a moron. The ONLY way to get rid of bad behavior like this is to recruit the right kids. And Pflugrad was doing that. You'll see. These problems will start to go away in the next few years and it won't be because of "discipline", it will be because of the quality of kids we have in our program that Pflugrad brought in.

 

[PlayerRep]

Another college football program that has had more crime in the last decade than Jim Oday/Haucks grizzlies?

Not to mention the crimes that have not been discovered. If they get caught this often then how many times did they get away with crimes?

Are you guys sitting on each other's laps posting from the same laptop today?

I've often wondered if Savage was Alpha posting in support of his posts. Too funny.

 

[PlayerRep]

griz arrests by year
2012 - 2 (donaldson,maus)
2011 - 6 (kemp twice, johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 5 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius, stuberg)
2008 - 9 (freeman 3, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 2 (joyce, parks)
2006 - 2 (smith, waller)
2005 - 2 (segars, walden)

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 3 (peeples, petek, raynock)
players accused, not arrested - 9 (in fairness i won't list any of these)

I don't think Kemp was arrested twice; only once. Were Badger and Liscowski arrested? Wilson was arrested in 2010; only give a citation. I don't believe Freeman was arrested 3 times. Waller wasn't arrested. What was Segar's infraction in 2005?

it was noted by b.w. that kemp's urination in public was a citation and i offered that arrests probably isn't a good word as i'm not sure what the difference between an arrest and a citation is. the list is compiled from newspaper reports, which aren't always clear on the differentiation of the use of legal/criminal terms. so the list could be titled griz in the newspapers relating to crime. something happened and the police took action in some form.

The police took no action against Waller. No arrest. No citation. No nothing. Hauck took the action. Suspended him for a game and other internal discipline, for driving the car when Smith waived a gun at someone. Waller didn't even know Smith had a gun.

 

[PlayerRep]

cclarkblues is asking the right questions. And no matter what anybody says, there are no easy answers.

Any player who is accused of misconduct deserves some due process. The question is, what process is due? Obviously, the university doesn't need to do an investigation of a student athlete's potential misconduct that establishes proof of guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt," or anything like that, but how about "a preponderance of the evidence" or "clear and convincing evidence" or some other reasonable standard?

You can't just say "no due process." That's B.S. Peoples' lives can be ruined by completely false accusations. You have to do some fact-finding and find out if there's anything to the charges, whether they're civil or criminal. And in criminal cases, like it or not, it might be completely reasonable to defer to the criminal justice system.

And, in deciding what the penalty should be, of course you have to consider: (1) the seriousness of the "offense," (2) whether the student-athlete has been in trouble in the past, (3) how the student-athlete responds to the investigation (i.e., does the individual cooperate fully, does the individual tell the truth, does the individual express a genuine intent to change his/her behavior), etc.

It's easy to say that people should be fired or not fired, that kids should be kicked off a team or not, etc. Any idiot can have an opinion on that stuff. What's hard is being in a position of responsibility to make those kinds of decisions.

It looks to me like the University needs to devote a whole lot more resources to investigating these types of matters and making educated decisions on what should be done in response. And it can't be left completely to the coaches - they don't have the time or expertise. The AD needs to be very involved in these decisions, in consultation with the coaches and the people who do the compliance work.

Like I said, it's not simple. So let's all be civil and discuss it like adults. Wait, I don't mean "adult" as in that other thread.

Good post. The AD and others, including the president and his office, have been involved in most of the recent decisions on discipline.

Most recently JJ. AD, Gee and Lopatch made the initial decision to let him return to practice, but he didn't return on that first Friday because they had to get Engstom's approval.

Kemp/Johnson - O'Day, Foley and I believe Engstrom made or approved the decision. Perhaps Gee and others too.

Wilson/biting - Foley, O'Day and others made the decision.

I don't think any of the recent discipline decisions were made by Pflu.