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Brand Findings
- Thread starter bgbigdog
- Start date
bgbigdog said:Ursa Major said:SoldierGriz said:
Perhaps, that might be a military slang term I'm unfamiliar with,Soldier?
Never gets old. Thank you. :clap:
:lol:
Spanky said:
I don't want to answer for anyone, and I have no idea how universities work despite having attended too many of them, but maybe it was like this:
"Hey, bud, we don't want you leading this thing anymore, but we feel you can maybe add value elsewhere. Hows about this check and a different job? Just resign by COB. Thanks, chief! No, you can leave it open . . ."
IdaGriz01
Well-known member
Since no one from academia has replied, I'll give it a try: First, it's probably a good thing that you don't know "how universities work" (or don't work, as the case might be). I have no deep understanding, but did spend a lot of years on the periphery. (I had a full-time job in industry but taught graduate classes, for peanuts, in the evening.) I assume the main explanation here is "tenure." Tenure was devised to protect "academic freedom" -- the ability to present unpopular (at the time) views. The idea had/has a noble goal, but don't get me started on how it has been abused. The bottom line is ... short of a felony conviction (I'm exaggerating, some), it's damn near impossible to "fire" someone who has been granted tenure. Don't know about any bonus, but by tenure rules the U was essentially obligated to find him a paid position in his academic field.Spanky said:
[I suspect you knew this, but it's worth repeating, just to make the point.
]I think Engstrom was still a professor even as president. Note that some presidents will teach a class or two.
When asked to resign as Pres, he went back to being a prof. I never liked him as Pres, and think he almost ruined the school, but I have heard he has taught a chem class or two successfully and taught a different class, maybe related to writing, in the Davidson Honors college and been praised for it.
Now that he is gone, I have moderated my criticism of him. However, to help redeem himself, he should help Pflu get a real job.
When asked to resign as Pres, he went back to being a prof. I never liked him as Pres, and think he almost ruined the school, but I have heard he has taught a chem class or two successfully and taught a different class, maybe related to writing, in the Davidson Honors college and been praised for it.
Now that he is gone, I have moderated my criticism of him. However, to help redeem himself, he should help Pflu get a real job.
BadlandsGrizFan
Well-known member
Whatever they can do to find a reason to cut that dbag Engstrom from the university I am down.
Its like going in to have cancer removed from your brain and taking it out and putting it on your nuts.....
Congrats UM, you got rid of your brain tumor but now you have testicular cancer....wtf?
Its like going in to have cancer removed from your brain and taking it out and putting it on your nuts.....
Congrats UM, you got rid of your brain tumor but now you have testicular cancer....wtf?
BadlandsGrizFan
Well-known member
IdaGriz01 said:Since no one from academia has replied, I'll give it a try: First, it's probably a good thing that you don't know "how universities work" (or don't work, as the case might be). I have no deep understanding, but did spend a lot of years on the periphery. (I had a full-time job in industry but taught graduate classes, for peanuts, in the evening.) I assume the main explanation here is "tenure." Tenure was devised to protect "academic freedom" -- the ability to present unpopular (at the time) views. The idea had/has a noble goal, but don't get me started on how it has been abused. The bottom line is ... short of a felony conviction (I'm exaggerating, some), it's damn near impossible to "fire" someone who has been granted tenure. Don't know about any bonus, but by tenure rules the U was essentially obligated to find him a paid position in his academic field.Spanky said:
[I suspect you knew this, but it's worth repeating, just to make the point.
it seems like once you reach or accept the president position you should have to forfeit your tenure?
BadlandsGrizFan said:IdaGriz01 said:Since no one from academia has replied, I'll give it a try: First, it's probably a good thing that you don't know "how universities work" (or don't work, as the case might be). I have no deep understanding, but did spend a lot of years on the periphery. (I had a full-time job in industry but taught graduate classes, for peanuts, in the evening.) I assume the main explanation here is "tenure." Tenure was devised to protect "academic freedom" -- the ability to present unpopular (at the time) views. The idea had/has a noble goal, but don't get me started on how it has been abused. The bottom line is ... short of a felony conviction (I'm exaggerating, some), it's damn near impossible to "fire" someone who has been granted tenure. Don't know about any bonus, but by tenure rules the U was essentially obligated to find him a paid position in his academic field.Spanky said:
[I suspect you knew this, but it's worth repeating, just to make the point.
it seems like once you reach or accept the president position you should have to forfeit your tenure?
I don't know if they did but it would make sense. Going from faculty to administration and a different contract would certainly indicate that tenure should be off the table. Could have been negotiated I suppose.
IdaGriz01
Well-known member
I would say most likely negotiated. In my (second-hand) experience, no one who has attained tenure is willing to give it up without a major, major incentive ($$$). It is, after all, essentially guaranteed "lifetime" employment.Glendivegriz said:
Here's another bit of "observational" experience: The way you get rid of a prof who has tenure is to stick him with every s**t job (committee memberships, etc) that can be justified. I recall one "community outreach" assignment that every prof dreaded. (I won't name the school ... but you know who you are). If you got that, and it wasn't coupled with a "plum" assignment, you could pretty well figure the admin was trying to get you to leave.
IdaGriz01 said:
Sad if they allowed him to negotiate the tenure in the contract. If I was representing the university, I would see that as a lack of confidence and figure right away we need to reopen the interview process. Like a bet against yourself.
Just a hunch, but I'm guessing maybe Bodnar won't want to immediately run around solving old problems that he did not create, or have any involvement in whatsoever.
PlayerRep said:
engstrom was terrible for u.m..his 'best friend' from sodak was named provost at the university i was at around the same time engstrom was named president at u.m.. i had many interactions with him, and he was truly an idiot, which left me wondering if u.m. had hired something similar. they obviously did. doesn't mean half of what has been posted on here about engstrom's role in various situations are anything but ridiculous, though.
Glendivegriz said:BadlandsGrizFan said:IdaGriz01 said:Since no one from academia has replied, I'll give it a try: First, it's probably a good thing that you don't know "how universities work" (or don't work, as the case might be). I have no deep understanding, but did spend a lot of years on the periphery. (I had a full-time job in industry but taught graduate classes, for peanuts, in the evening.) I assume the main explanation here is "tenure." Tenure was devised to protect "academic freedom" -- the ability to present unpopular (at the time) views. The idea had/has a noble goal, but don't get me started on how it has been abused. The bottom line is ... short of a felony conviction (I'm exaggerating, some), it's damn near impossible to "fire" someone who has been granted tenure. Don't know about any bonus, but by tenure rules the U was essentially obligated to find him a paid position in his academic field.Spanky said:
[I suspect you knew this, but it's worth repeating, just to make the point.
it seems like once you reach or accept the president position you should have to forfeit your tenure?
I don't know if they did but it would make sense. Going from faculty to administration and a different contract would certainly indicate that tenure should be off the table. Could have been negotiated I suppose.
pretty much all administrators coming from academia are given tenure in a 'relevant' department at a university.
tenure in this day and age is dumb for a number of reasons. holds universities back, good professors back (because they choose 'safety' instead of moving around), students back, etc....
