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Billings Jumps Into The Rape Race

bisonboone11 said:
bisonboone11 said:
PlayerRep said:
Nope, the FBI changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes. Here's the first sentence from a January NY Times article on the subject.

"The federal government is changing its longstanding definition of “forcible rape” in compiling national crime statistics — expanding both the definition of victims, to include males, and the types of sexual assault that will be counted in the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Report."

As for numbers of college students, are you not aware that Billings has about 6500 college students?
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So you're going to trust someone's report on the press release rather than the press release itself? Would that be considered hearsay? I would honestly like to know, because I'm not the one that went to law school. Even if it's not considered hearsay, I highly doubt most people would trust someone else's report on a press release over the press release itself. (Also, nice try on attempting to direct the conversation away from the actual issue being discussed. I believe that is a very common strategy for lawyers that are getting backed into a corner.) In any case, whichever one you choose to believe, it really doesn't matter because the statistics that you were using are based on the FBI's definition, which excluded the types of rape that are most common in college towns.

Yes, I was aware that Billings has approximately that many college students. Are you not aware that the University of Montana in Missoula itself has approximately twice as many students as that?

Also, in case you want to look at the actual press release, not someone's take on the press release, here is title of the press release, the first sentence, and the link:

Title: "Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape"

First sentence: "Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide."

Link: http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Also, just take a second to think about what you're saying regarding "forcible rape". The FBI is changing their definition to include non-forcible rape. So you're trying to say that the FBI is changing their definition of "forcible rape" to include "non-forcible rape"?
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All I ever said was that the FBI was changing its definition of "forcible rape". That is a true statement. Among other things, it now includes the rape of men. Maybe you think that is relevant to the current debate going on regarding sexual assaults in Missoula or will help even or change the rape stats between Missoula and Billings, but I don't.
 
PlayerRep said:
All I ever said was that the FBI was changing its definition of "forcible rape". That is a true statement. Among other things, it now includes the rape of men. Maybe you think that is relevant to the current debate going on regarding sexual assaults in Missoula or will help even or change the rape stats between Missoula and Billings, but I don't.
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This is getting comical. Where is your proof that what you said is a true statement? Do you really believe that because they said the words "forcible rape", that proves they are changing their definition of the term "forcible rape." The quote you showed in your previous post was the only time they used the term "forcible rape" in the entire press release. As you showed, they did not say they were changing their definition of that term. I would agree that they are deciding to stop using the term "forcible rape" for their rape statistics, but there is no indication in their press release that they are changing their definition of the term "forcible rape". There are, however, several places where they say they are making revisions to their definition of rape, which you said was not true in your initial response to me when you said "The FBI didn't change the definition of rape" and "It's becoming a full time job trying to correct all the mistakes and misinformation provided by some of you." According to the FBI's press release (not according to me), they are making revisions to their definition of rape. If you really need me to post all of the places where they say this, I will, but I trust you can read, so I will just post the link again. If you would kindly take a few seconds to read even the title or the first sentence, you will see that your initial response to me was incorrect.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In addition, it is perfectly fine if you do not think the revisions to their definition of rape will affect rape statistics. That is your opinion, and I also have my opinion on the issue, which obviously differs from you. It also appears that the FBI's opinion on this would differ from your opinion based on the following quote from their press release: "Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide. "
You have made several incorrect statements and tried to claim that I made a mistake with my initial statement of the FBI changing their definition of rape. I have shown you a few of the errors of your statements and provided proof that your statements were incorrect. However, you have yet to admit being wrong even once with regards to this topic. If you can show me evidence that shows I stated something that was incorrect, I will gladly admit that I was wrong. However, you have yet to provide any credible evidence showing that what I said was wrong.
 
bisonboone11 said:
PlayerRep said:
All I ever said was that the FBI was changing its definition of "forcible rape". That is a true statement. Among other things, it now includes the rape of men. Maybe you think that is relevant to the current debate going on regarding sexual assaults in Missoula or will help even or change the rape stats between Missoula and Billings, but I don't.
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This is getting comical. Where is your proof that what you said is a true statement? Do you really believe that because they said the words "forcible rape", that proves they are changing their definition of the term "forcible rape." The quote you showed in your previous post was the only time they used the term "forcible rape" in the entire press release. As you showed, they did not say they were changing their definition of that term. I would agree that they are deciding to stop using the term "forcible rape" for their rape statistics, but there is no indication in their press release that they are changing their definition of the term "forcible rape". There are, however, several places where they say they are making revisions to their definition of rape, which you said was not true in your initial response to me when you said "The FBI didn't change the definition of rape" and "It's becoming a full time job trying to correct all the mistakes and misinformation provided by some of you." According to the FBI's press release (not according to me), they are making revisions to their definition of rape. If you really need me to post all of the places where they say this, I will, but I trust you can read, so I will just post the link again. If you would kindly take a few seconds to read even the title or the first sentence, you will see that your initial response to me was incorrect.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In addition, it is perfectly fine if you do not think the revisions to their definition of rape will affect rape statistics. That is your opinion, and I also have my opinion on the issue, which obviously differs from you. It also appears that the FBI's opinion on this would differ from your opinion based on the following quote from their press release: "Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide. "
You have made several incorrect statements and tried to claim that I made a mistake with my initial statement of the FBI changing their definition of rape. I have shown you a few of the errors of your statements and provided proof that your statements were incorrect. However, you have yet to admit being wrong even once with regards to this topic. If you can show me evidence that shows I stated something that was incorrect, I will gladly admit that I was wrong. However, you have yet to provide any credible evidence showing that what I said was wrong.
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Actually, in your original post, you indicated that the FBI had changed the definition of rape--not that the definition (of forcible rape) was being changed for statistical reporting purposes. I pointed out to you that the FBI doesn't set the definition of rape; and said that the definition of rape is set by federal and state statutes. You also said that Chicago had reported no rapes to the FBI, which, again, wasn't accurate.

Jeez, go the FBI website dealing with stats. The term "forcible rape" is all over the place.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime/rapemain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's another article, with this headline: "NATIONAL: CRIME: FBI's new definition of forcible rape, updated for first time in decades, includes men as victims" http://heritage.com/articles/2012/01/02/heritagewest/news/doc4efdfd1535ad8300782498.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is from the Huffinton Post: "On Friday morning at 7:30 am PST, I dialed into a conference call with representatives from the FBI, the White House and the Department of Justice to hear them announce that the FBI will officially change its 83-year-old definition of "forcible rape." Until now, the FBI has defined forcible rape as ...."


Nope, I haven't been making mistakes. You have, and you continue to do so.
 
I am starting to know more about rape than I want.
I now am convinced this is not what I will study when I begin my continuing education.
 
PlayerRep said:
Actually, in your original post, you indicated that the FBI had changed the definition of rape--not that the definition (of forcible rape) was being changed for statistical reporting purposes. I pointed out to you that the FBI doesn't set the definition of rape; and said that the definition of rape is set by federal and state statutes. You also said that Chicago had reported no rapes to the FBI, which, again, wasn't accurate.

Jeez, go the FBI website dealing with stats. The term "forcible rape" is all over the place.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime/rapemain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's another article, with this headline: "NATIONAL: CRIME: FBI's new definition of forcible rape, updated for first time in decades, includes men as victims" http://heritage.com/articles/2012/01/02/heritagewest/news/doc4efdfd1535ad8300782498.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is from the Huffinton Post: "On Friday morning at 7:30 am PST, I dialed into a conference call with representatives from the FBI, the White House and the Department of Justice to hear them announce that the FBI will officially change its 83-year-old definition of "forcible rape." Until now, the FBI has defined forcible rape as ...."


Nope, I haven't been making mistakes. You have, and you continue to do so.
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Here is what I said in my original post: "The FBI just changed its definition of the "rape" in 2012, which will make it much broader and include many more cases. "

Here is a portion of your response: "What was changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes."

Here are a few quotes from the FBI's press release:
"Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide."

" The new definition of rape is: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” "

"“The FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Advisory Policy Board recently recommended the adoption of a revised definition of rape within the Summary Reporting System of the Uniform Crime Reporting Program,” said David Cuthbertson, FBI Assistant Director, CJIS Division. “This definitional change was recently approved by FBI Director Robert S. Mueller. This change will give law enforcement the ability to report more complete rape offense data, as the new definition reflects the vast majority of state rape statutes. As we implement this change, the FBI is confident that the number of victims of this heinous crime will be more accurately reflected in national crime statistics.” "

I can MAYBE give it to you that I was slightly off. I should have said that The FBI Director approved the definitional change rather than saying they changed the definition of rape. Apparently they simply approved the change. Personally, I think this means the same thing, but I will give you that one on a technicality. However, you were wrong, in that they were not changing the definition of "forcible rape". The FBI approved the change to the UCR's definition of rape (not forcible rape). You were the only one that used the following set of words: "definition of forcible rape". The FBI press release never used those words in that order, which makes your post wrong.
 
not worth the time my friend...

also, what does billings' rape have to do with um football or the fcs....? i'm going to suggest to the mods that you all be banned....

:coffee:
 
bisonboone11 said:
PlayerRep said:
Actually, in your original post, you indicated that the FBI had changed the definition of rape--not that the definition (of forcible rape) was being changed for statistical reporting purposes. I pointed out to you that the FBI doesn't set the definition of rape; and said that the definition of rape is set by federal and state statutes. You also said that Chicago had reported no rapes to the FBI, which, again, wasn't accurate.

Jeez, go the FBI website dealing with stats. The term "forcible rape" is all over the place.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime/rapemain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's another article, with this headline: "NATIONAL: CRIME: FBI's new definition of forcible rape, updated for first time in decades, includes men as victims" http://heritage.com/articles/2012/01/02/heritagewest/news/doc4efdfd1535ad8300782498.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is from the Huffinton Post: "On Friday morning at 7:30 am PST, I dialed into a conference call with representatives from the FBI, the White House and the Department of Justice to hear them announce that the FBI will officially change its 83-year-old definition of "forcible rape." Until now, the FBI has defined forcible rape as ...."


Nope, I haven't been making mistakes. You have, and you continue to do so.
Click to expand...
Here is what I said in my original post: "The FBI just changed its definition of the "rape" in 2012, which will make it much broader and include many more cases. "

Here is a portion of your response: "What was changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes."

Here are a few quotes from the FBI's press release:
"Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide."

" The new definition of rape is: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” "

"“The FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Advisory Policy Board recently recommended the adoption of a revised definition of rape within the Summary Reporting System of the Uniform Crime Reporting Program,” said David Cuthbertson, FBI Assistant Director, CJIS Division. “This definitional change was recently approved by FBI Director Robert S. Mueller. This change will give law enforcement the ability to report more complete rape offense data, as the new definition reflects the vast majority of state rape statutes. As we implement this change, the FBI is confident that the number of victims of this heinous crime will be more accurately reflected in national crime statistics.” "

I can MAYBE give it to you that I was slightly off. I should have said that The FBI Director approved the definitional change rather than saying they changed the definition of rape. Apparently they simply approved the change. Personally, I think this means the same thing, but I will give you that one on a technicality. However, you were wrong, in that they were not changing the definition of "forcible rape". The FBI approved the change to the UCR's definition of rape (not forcible rape). You were the only one that used the following set of words: "definition of forcible rape". The FBI press release never used those words in that order, which makes your post wrong.
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As you said above, this is what your original first post above said: "The FBI just changed the definition of rape in 2012, which will make it much broader and include many more cases. "

Your statement is not true, for two reasons. The FBI did not change the definition of rape. What was changed was only a definition used by the FBI for statistical reporting purposes. For that purpose, the FBI did not previously have a definition of rape. It had only a definition of "forcible rape".

Below is my original post. It is 100% accurate. Can you not even admit that you were wrong on your statement about the Chicago stats?

"The FBI didn't change the definition of rape. What was changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes. It's not true that Chicago didn't report any rapes. Chicago reported a larger number of rapes than the more narrow definition for statistical purposes, so the federal government decided not to include any of Chicago's stats. It's becoming a full time job trying to correct all the mistakes and misinformation provided by some of you."
 
PlayerRep said:
As you said above, this is what your original first post above said: "The FBI just changed the definition of rape in 2012, which will make it much broader and include many more cases. "

Your statement is not true, for two reasons. The FBI did not change the definition of rape. What was changed was only a definition used by the FBI for statistical reporting purposes. For that purpose, the FBI did not previously have a definition of rape. It had only a definition of "forcible rape".

Below is my original post. It is 100% accurate. Can you not even admit that you were wrong on your statement about the Chicago stats?

"The FBI didn't change the definition of rape. What was changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes. It's not true that Chicago didn't report any rapes. Chicago reported a larger number of rapes than the more narrow definition for statistical purposes, so the federal government decided not to include any of Chicago's stats. It's becoming a full time job trying to correct all the mistakes and misinformation provided by some of you."
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A definition of what?.... Rape. According to the FBI's press release (not according to me), "Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape" . That is the FBI that said that, and I am simply restating what they originally said. They also said, "The new definition of rape is:..." If you want to have this argument, have it with the FBI, because they are the ones that I am quoting.
 
bisonboone11 said:
Umista said:
Was it a rape? A reported rape? Or plane old rape?

I want to see the stats of reported rape vs convictions. The percentage of such in the various cities.

I also want to look at the Missoula "reported rapes" vs "convictions".............some of us like myself are dumb and need to see the facts. Does Msla. have the highest reported rapes per say? Lowest conviction rate? Less charges per reported case? Most rapes (reported) on UM campus compared to other schools?

Is it fact that our football team leads the country in rape? Football team lead in convictions of rape? Are we guilty of leading the country in rape? Drinking? Sex? For some of us dumb people please indicate how we stand in this race!
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I highly doubt anyone has gathered that sort of information. Also, as I have said in previous posts, the way that "rapes" had been classified prior to January 2012 minimized the amount of "rapes" in the statistics. The FBI's old definition wouldn't have classified many of the sexual assaults at UofM and at other universities as rape. Therefore, I feel that attempting to use any statistics that are currently available is useless. The DOJ will have to deal with this on a case by case basis and will have to respond based on accusations of improper handling of rape reports. Obviously they had enough accusations in Missoula to feel it warranted an investigation. I hope they find that the police department and the University have been handling the reports properly. However, no matter what the findings of the investigation indicate (or what any current statistics indicate), I don't feel it will give any sort of indication on whether or not Missoula is any worse or any better than other cities at how they handle reports of rape. I just hope the results of the investigation make Missoula, and other cities, safer places to live, and I hope it makes the people living in these cities feel safer.
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While I doubt any one here condones sexual assault your only function seems to be trolling...kindly fuck off, thanks.
 
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