Big Sky suspends officials

[votb]

There was another ISU/UM game last week with crappy officiating that did NOT affect the outcome, given the way the Lady Griz were shooting. The three officials were a woman with streaky blonde hair who felt she had to make all the calls, a fat-butt woman who rarely blew the whistle (she was like a caddy to streak) and a guy who went back and forth between whether he was in the game or out.

I think Doma is a great player, reminds me of Krysko, but she got away with murder against skinny Lohman, especially on a shooting play when Doma already had four fouls. It was like the NBA protecting the stars and screwing the rookies. Lohman took her shot into Doma's waving arms, got whacked, and a no call.

And Lightfoot was protected to the extreme all night long, including a so-called foul when she threw up a beat-the-shot clock shot, then made 3 FT.

It goes both ways, but this time it didn't decide a game -- although it looked to me like Hasquet was being worked over pretety good, even when he was trying to signal TO.. I thought JH may have earned a FT for that whacking while guys were trying to tie him up.

What I find totally interesting is that every school has its whiners. I recognized that when I started reading this thread.

I called the game Saturday on the radio from Missoula, and wasn't going to say anything until you opened your mouth LakeGriz. The Griz whupped up on ISU during the second half to get a well-deserved win, but to hear you complain about the officiating AGAINST UM in that game blows my mind. You are right about Karen Lasuik taking over the game...which I knew she might because when I saw who the lead ref was, I knew he was a guy that almost never blows his whistle. I'm not going to dispute anything you said about the refs protecting Doma (I'm sure she got 4 fouls with about 14 minutes left to play because the refs were protecting her) or about Lightfoot. BTW, UM's posts were shoving Doma out of the post all night long, with only one or two calls against them. Instead of taking her game to them, she let them take her out of it. It's called good defense. But if you're going to claim ISU got preferential treatment, let's also point out Mandy's charge into Iacovits as time ran out at the end of the first half, and not only did they ignore the charge, but counted the bucket (to make the lead 5) to add insult to injury. By the way, Mandy's patented "jump into the defender" shot is an offensive foul almost every time she does it, but very few referees call her for it.

The bottom line is that in every game each team gets away with things, and each team is called for things it doesn't do. Occasionally, like Sunday in Pocatello, a team is cheated out of a chance to win by the rules of the game, with no avenue of recourse. It's true that ISU sucked fumes during the last 8 minutes of regulation, but for the first 32 minutes of regulation they earned the right to have a chance to win by the rules. Curry tailored the rules to fit his own emotions, literally saying when questioned about the call that he wasn't going to let a game end like that...over a few tenths of a second. He KNEW it should have been a technical, and refused to make the call.

Finally, the video CLEARLY SHOWS the timeout was called with 1.2 ticks on the clock, and shows Curry raising his arm and recognizing the timeout with .4 seconds on the clock.

As another poster made on ISU's board, sure, the screwed-up call hurt ISU, but not nearly as much as it did the other league teams that needed Montana to lose to have a shot at getting into the tournament. That may all change if ISU ends up playing Montana in the first round of the BSC Tourney, and has to play in Missoula instead of Pocatello. But...that's all water under the bridge. There's no changing it now.

You guys still have a great board, and like every other school (including ISU) you have some idiots in your midst. Occasionally, I'm one of them.

Finish the season well....hopefully we'll see you in the tourney.

VOTB

 

[LakeGriz]

Well, radio guy, just as you pointed out a particular play involving Morales, I pointed out a particular play involving Doma.

And certainly you don't expect that many folks are going to buy the idea that Brittany was able to push Doma off the blocks, although Guardipee and Tolbert have the beef to make Doma work a little harder. But that position battle on the blocks is old, old, old; in fact I remember seeing Steve Hayes and Ken McKenzie have the same kinds of battles. But maybe that's why Doma was only 4 for 16.

As to Mandy's "patented" work, it's one thing to charge -- into the body between the shoulders and the knees -- and be faced with the charge, OR, to come off the side of the defender, draw the contact, which turns out to be a shooting foul or a no-call. If the defenders' flailing arms hit the shooter's arms', well...

I haven't seen the women play enough this winter to know much about the officials, but my impression of the first two apparently squares with what you've seen on perhaps several occasions.

 

[GrizBBIsKing]

...

And certainly you don't expect that many folks are going to buy the idea that Brittany was able to push Doma off the blocks, although Guardipee and Tolbert have the beef to make Doma work a little harder. But that position battle on the blocks is old, old, old; in fact I remember seeing Steve Hayes and Ken McKenzie have the same kinds of battles. But maybe that's why Doma was only 4 for 16.
..

Lohman is one of the strongest, maybe the stongest, girls on the team despite the way she looks to you.

 

[LakeGriz]

I haven't seen numbers on press, squat, etc., but I think I'd take Doma in a wrestling match.

 

[AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen]

I haven't seen numbers on press, squat, etc., but I think I'd take Doma in a wrestling match.

and an UGLY match! ohhhhhhh!

 

[PlayerRep]

Again I ask, what rule "was set aside", as Fullerton said in the article? I see nothing that says the officials are required to go to the tv monitor. They thought they had recognized the TO at the buzzer. They apparently made a mistake. However, I see no rule that was set aside. Fullerton looks like an idiot to me, as he can't even articulate the reason he suspended the refs.

Hasquett was on the sports tonight saying the Griz have a played called "T", and he was calling that play. He had a nice smile as he said that.

 

[Bozgriz]

Can't argue with that kind of logic...

 

[bengal]

...The rule Curry set aside was the rule that allowed him to review the play on tape. He clearly made the wrong call -- had he used the tape that was available to him (that's why they make the tape available to refs -- to get the call CORRECT), he would have seen he made the wrong call and CORRECTED it. Instead, he told the media afterward the play was NOT REVIEWABLE. In fact it was. So he misinterpreted the rule. I don't know how you could state it any more clearly.

 

[Bengal00]

VOTB nice reply. ISU got screwed in the call for not shooting to win but it happened that way and we got the short end again but hopefully things will change for the future. Montana played their hearts out in OT and won it BUT it should have never gone into OT had we had the shots and MADE them. Its the way it happened. UM's fault? no way Ref's fault? Yep It is called sheer laziness and stubborness not to go to the replay in my opinion.
ps-how the heck do you go to spell check on this board?

 

[PlayerRep]

Bengal, why didn't Fullerton say that the ref believed the call was not reviewable?

Why did the tv announcer say that the officials said the call was a recognition call and it was not made until the buzzer sounded? That doesn't indicate that the refs thought the player wasn't reviewable.

The rule apparently says the refs can look at the monitor, but it isn't mandatory.

I saw the replay in real time a couple times, and it didn't look to me that Hasquett called TO until well under a second, and certainly not 1.4. I call BS to that one.

You can whine about one call all you want, but in a close game, there are oodles of calls that could have gone the other way and decided the game.

A ref could have called Morales for a charge at the end of the half, but charging wouldn't have been called a majority of the time. I had a great view of the play.

Doma definitely got a pass on what should have been her 5th foul, and there were needless or wrong calls against the ISU women a couple times in the second half.

 

[bengal]

If you read my previous posts, you'll see I'm not whining about the call. As I noted earlier, Idaho State lost the game with a terrible 15 minutes of basketball. You keep asking why the officials were suspended and I was trying to explain why. You seem to be hung up on the notion that it's not mandatory that officials use the videotape to get the call right. Maybe it isn't, but why wouldn't you use the tape? And Curry told the media pool reporter after the game the play wasn't reviewable, so I'm assuming he also told the Big Sky office, in his report on the play, that he didn't review it because, in his opinion, it was not reviewable. That is why he was suspended -- it clearly was reviewable.

(Here's a quote from the ISU press release after the game: "Curry spoke with a pool reporter to explain the decision. 'As the time was running down, the player called timeout. It is not when he calls timeout, it's the point of recognition. I recognized he called timeout, I blew my whistle, and it was instantaneous with the horn. In my judgment it's instantaneous. A play like that is not reviewable.' " )

You can split hairs over whether a review is "mandatory," but the point the Big Sky was making was clear: if you have a chance to get the call right, USE THE TAPE!

 

[PlayerRep]

The difference between discretionary and mandatory is not splitting hairs. There's a huge difference between the words, and how they impact situations.

Curry obviously thought he'd recognized the call simultaenously with the buzzer. If he thought the play wasn't reviewable, then that's a mistake. If that was the mistake, then the league office should have said that. If they can't even articulate their reason for the suspension, they ought to be suspended.

If Curry thought he'd made the call correctly, and chose not to review it, then why isn't that within the discretion of the refs?

I agree with something I think I saw that Curry said, and that is that the ourcome of games shouldn't be determined by something like this, i.e. small things and one play. There are so many close calls and wrong calls during a game. Why should games be determined by one play that happens to be reviewable.

UM received no benefit or advantage with the attempted TO call. The clock didn't stop (before the buzzer sounded). I assume the rule is designed to keep teams from having an extra time out, and from stopping the clock when they don't have a TO left to stop the clock. If the clock had been stopped with time left, then UM would have deserved the technical and it would have been called.

Bengal, I wasn't intending to address my whiner comment at you necessarily. I appreciate the specific information you have provided, including the quote in your last post.

 

[votb]

Well it is a good f**king time Griz got some good luck.

Still, Tinkle, or just as important, the assistant coaches, should have ingrained it into the players during the last time out that they were out of timeouts. Of course, if Tinkle, or the assistant coaches didn't know how many timeouts remaining, then someone on the coaching staff wasn't doing their job.

Just can rely on good luck all the time.

I don't know what kind of drugs your on but I believe the Griz screwed over Sac St. ahhhhhhh about 2 years ago. I think the scorer's table took away a point from the game score. Pretty f***'n stupid. but right the Griz never get any breaks.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :stupid: I love how every ISU Bengal and all their fans walk on water and can never do wrong. It reminds me of a couple of years back when Dlouhy went up to challenge a shot by ISU's Kinghorn? (could be wrong on the name), grabbed Kinghorn's arm instead of the ball and took him to the ground. Now, he was obviously just going for the ball and being aggressive (still a foul no matter what) but as Dlouhy went over and offered his hand to help Kinghorn up, he jumped up and took a swing at Dlouhy. I still hear ISU fans whine about this play even though it was incidental and prob. unintentional due to him immediately offering his hand (it was all on a video recap that was on the coaches show if you don't believe me ISU fans).

Anyways, let me say that I do agree with the Bengal fans in that they did get screwed over on this call and should have at least gotten a chance to shoot their free-throws before we would've had a last possession. But what I find disturbingly hilarious is that the official ISU sports website focused their whole recap article on how they got screwed. It would've have been fine to mention the situation in the article and that there was controversy but the author just kept on rambling about how it absolutely was a wrong call before the BSC had even recognized the situation.

As a longtime Griz fan, there have been many times I have wanted explanations for certain bad calls but I like the way Guffey handles the reporting. He never acts like a child or jumps to any accusations like I've seen on the ISU site more times than I can remember. Idk, can they not afford to hire a sports information director that is actually professional down in Poke-a-fellow? It's one thing for fans to complain on a message board or wherever but an actual school official to publicly show contempt for the conference and its affiliate processes is a totally different thing. Shouldn't there be some kind of repercussion for a school's SID for any misinformation that has yet to substantiated by the BSC? Kind of like a coach complaining about the reffing on the post-game.....

DoubleNicks...I've waited a day or two to reply to your comments about 2 things (1) your obviosuly colored view of the Dlouhy foul against Kinghorn, and (2), your disparaging comments about ISU's SID....so here goes:

(1) You need to get a lighter shade of Griz-colored glasses when you refer to the Kinghorn/Dlouhy incident. After no suspensions were issued, the following is the official version of the incident:

“The incident in question occurred with 3:38 remaining in the first half, with Montana leading 30-22. Logan Kinghorn rebounded his own missed three-pointer, and drove the baseline for an open dunk. Matt Dlouhy, who was boxed out by ISU's Matt Stucki, reached over Stucki's left shoulder and grabbed Kinghorn's jersey at the base of the neck. As Kinghorn went up, Dlouhy pulled down, forcing a frightening fall in which Kinghorn lay motionless on the floor for a moment.
Logan eventually came to, bolted up in anger, and bumped into Montana's Matt Martin, who appeared to be in Kinghorn's way. Kinghorn, who suffered a concussion, eventually stumbled to the far side of the court, where he passed out. Kinghorn, who remembers only the voices of ISU trainer Phil Luckey and teammate Kasey Winters, does not remember any part of the incident. Kinghorn was assessed a technical foul for approaching Montana's bench, and he was also ejected, although his return would have been doubtful.
After the foul, Dlouhy immediately went to Kinghorn to check on him, and he was visibly distraught after Kinghorn collapsed the second time. Dlouhy was charged with an intentional foul, a technical foul, and ejected. He later apologized for the foul to an ISU official and an assistant coach.”

Since I was in Missoula that night with the women's team, I didn't get a chance to see the foul until I watched it later on game video, shot by a local tv station. The events were EXACTLY as the above story describes. I won't demand you retract your comment about that incident, but will just say that ALL Griz fans who've seen video of it know you're wrong, too.

(2) Your comments about ISU's SID are totally uncalled for and out of line. First of all, you have NO CLUE who he is and all the great work he does, on all levels. I know it won't matter to you because you can only see Griz maroon, but Frank was commended by the Big Sky office for the way he handled the men's game matter in the media.

Apparently the following paragraph, that he wrote, wasn't enough for you???

“First, the overtime, when the Grizzlies kept their conference tournament hopes alive by salvaging a split with the Bengals. The Griz banged home the first five points of the overtime period before ISU answered with an Austin Kilpatrick three with 1:52 left. After the teams traded points, Montana led 65-63 with 1:05 left, but Cameron Rundles, mired in a horrendous shooting slump, drained a three at the shot clock buzzer for a 68-63 lead with 30.6 left. Jordan Hasquet then blocked Matt Stucki's fastbreak three attempt, and the Griz would hold on to win, hitting four free throws at the end."

BTW, I've known Dave Guffey since 1982 and he's ALSO one of the finest SID's I've ever had the pleasure to know. UM is fortunate to have TWO great SID's (including Joel).

I don't recall, though, what Dave wrote when the official scorer in Dahlberg REMOVED a point from Sacramento State during a 2006 game that also cost the Hornets a chance to win. And regardless of what he wrote or didn't write, I know how hard he works to be fair and accomodating to all concerned, just as Frank does at ISU.

Can you tell me the last two times officials making such serious mistakes in Dahlberg have cost the Griz a game in the final second? And if it did happen, what would you expect Dave to write about it? Every single thing Frank wrote in his article on the ISU athletics web site was corroborated by the Big Sky in the post-game investigation. Again, the BSC office commended Frank for the way he handled the situation during the game, and afterward with the media and during his accounts of what happened. Just because you didn't like it doesn't make his account any less true, or less-fairly presented.

It's obvious that you can't handle it :crybaby: when anyone writes even one disparaging word about your team. I admire your loyalty, but I don't envy your sense of fairness. Trust me, your life will be a lot easier if you just decide never to read anything ever again that isn't written in Missoula, by a Griz fan.

I continue to be one of the biggest Griz fans there is from another school...I admire so many things about your school, and your fans...just not ALL your fans.

VOTB

 

[votb]

BTW...
Here's a photo of Dlouhy's foul...his hand gripping the back neckline of Kinghorn's jersey...there was no fouling him on the arm "going for the ball"...I have a bigger version of it with a circle around his hand holding the jersey from behind, but can't figure out how to post it. Oh well...