App St Is No. 25

[PlayerRep]

The OP is a damn liar as we all know from reading this board, there’s simply NO WAY anc fcs team can have FBS success.

Bottom line is GRIZ fans in Montana have a wildly over-distorted view of the importance of the fcs playoffs and a wildly under-distorted view of the importance of bowl games. That’s not necessarily bad, of course. It just makes their posts comparing the two seem a little silly.

The OP has never said or even insinuated that an FCS team cannot have success at the FBS level. Multiple schools have been successful after moving up. Many haven't been successful or very successful. Some have disappeared into oblivion after moving up.

Everett just doesn't appreciate the FCS playoffs, the Big Sky conference or his school. Doesn't understand and never played the game of football. Thought Stitt was a great hire and should have been renewed. Thought Engstrom was a great hire. Everett's sport is bashing the conference on the internet.

 

[kemajic]

The OP is a damn liar as we all know from reading this board, there’s simply NO WAY anc fcs team can have FBS success.

Bottom line is GRIZ fans in Montana have a wildly over-distorted view of the importance of the fcs playoffs and a wildly under-distorted view of the importance of bowl games. That’s not necessarily bad, of course. It just makes their posts comparing the two seem a little silly.

The OP has never said or even insinuated that an FCS team cannot have success at the FBS level. Multiple schools have been successful after moving up. Many haven't been successful or very successful. Some have disappeared into oblivion after moving up.

Everett just doesn't appreciate the FCS playoffs, the Big Sky conference or his school. Doesn't understand and never played the game of football. Thought Stitt was a great hire and should have been renewed. Thought Engstrom was a great hire. Everett's sport is bashing the conference on the internet.

You don't need to throw out the baby with the bath water. There is nothing wrong with his last paragraph which I find pretty accurate:

"Bottom line is GRIZ fans in Montana have a wildly over-distorted view of the importance of the fcs playoffs and a wildly under-distorted view of the importance of bowl games. That’s not necessarily bad, of course. It just makes their posts comparing the two seem a little silly."

 

[EverettGriz]

PR, of course the OP never said that. Many on this board have. And more — including you— suggest specifically that there is no way MONTANA could have success at the FBS level.

 

[PlayerRep]

What are some examples of wildly over-distorted views of the importance of the FCS playoffs? I find the playoffs, and the march to get to them and advance, to be incredibly fun, and getting to the playoffs is very important to UM. The playoff especially home playoff games are very important to the local economy, i.e. hospitality and shopping.

What is the importance of the low level bowls games? I have zero interest in those games. Some of them are downright embarrassing. Bad locations. Little attendance. Bigger bowl games are terrific.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I can see the merit in both. I'm personally in EG's category that overvalues the FCS Playoffs relative to lower bowl games, but that's because I'm a Griz fan. Yeah, we get to "play for a championship" in the FCS, even though we haven't done so in quite some time, and haven't won in a HS recruit's lifetime. On the flipside, I'm sure the App State players and fans will be rightly excited to play in whatever postseason bowl they get, and likely not care that it's not the FCS Playoffs.

 

[bgbigdog]

#25 in the polls & still #1 in our hearts, Appalachian State.

 

[IdaGriz01]

I can see the merit in both. I'm personally in EG's category that overvalues the FCS Playoffs relative to lower bowl games, but that's because I'm a Griz fan. Yeah, we get to "play for a championship" in the FCS, even though we haven't done so in quite some time, and haven't won in a HS recruit's lifetime. On the flipside, I'm sure the App State players and fans will be rightly excited to play in whatever postseason bowl they get, and likely not care that it's not the FCS Playoffs.

Just a bit of recent history. ASU wasn't eligible for anything (FCS playoffs or a bowl game) during their transition to FBS in 2013 and 2014. They then went 10-2 in 2015 to almost win the Sun Belt Conference in their first year of eligibility ... and were invited to the Camellia Bowl, which they won. They were co-champions of the Sun Belt in 2016 and 2017 and went to the Camellia Bowl again, and then the "Dollar General Bowl" ,,, and won those games too.

So App State has already had a lot of success since moving up. Getting into the top-25 is just icing on the cake.

FWIW: The Camellia and Dollar General are not the top of the heap in bowls games, but they're pretty good at maybe the second tier. At least they feature good matchups and don't have to settle for a couple of 6-5 or 6-6 teams.

 

[MikeyGriz]

Here's a list of the 2018 bowl games, not including those in the running for the "playoffs". How many of these would bust your buttons to be able to say, "We played in (and maybe even won) the ______________________ Bowl!"?

Sun Bowl 1935 Sun Bowl Stadium (51,500) El Paso, Texas $3,447,568

Gator Bowl 1945 TIAA Bank Field (76,867) Jacksonville, Florida $3,168,292

Citrus Bowl 1946 Camping World Stadium (65,438) Orlando, Florida $8,550,000

Liberty Bowl 1959 Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium (61,008) Memphis, Tennessee $4,294,681

Independence Bowl 1976 Independence Stadium (53,000) Shreveport, Louisiana $1,248,280

Holiday Bowl 1978 SDCCU Stadium (70,561) San Diego $6,326,258

Outback Bowl 1986 Raymond James Stadium (65,908) Tampa, Florida $6,350,000

Cheez-It Bowl 1989 Chase Field (48,519) Phoenix, Arizona (1989–99: Tucson, Arizona 1,037,118

Camping World Bowl 1990 Camping World Stadium (65,438) Orlando, Florida $5,800,000

Las Vegas Bowl 1992 Sam Boyd Stadium (36,800) Whitney, Nevada $2,760,000

Alamo Bowl 1993 Alamodome 65,000) San Antonio, Texas $7,975,000 Valero

Famous Idaho Potato Bowl 1997 Albertsons Stadium (37,000) Boise, Idaho $950,000

Music City Bowl 1998 Nissan Stadium (69,143) Nashville, Tennessee $5,650,000

Dollar General Bowl 1999 Ladd–Peebles Stadium (33,471) Mobile, Alabama $1,500,000

New Orleans Bowl 2001 Mercedes-Benz Superdome (73,208) New Orleans $925,000

Redbox Bowl 2002 Levi's Stadium (68,500) Santa Clara, California $3,600,000

Hawaii Bowl 2002 Aloha Stadium (50,000) Honolulu, Hawaii $1,000,000

Belk Bowl 2002 Bank of America Stadium (73,778) Charlotte, North Carolina $4,505,556

Armed Forces Bowl 2003 Amon G. Carter Stadium (45,000) Fort Worth, Texas $900,000

Texas Bowl 2006 NRG Stadium (71,054) Houston, Texas $6,300,000

Birmingham Bowl 2006 Legion Field (71,594) Birmingham, Alabama $1,650,000

New Mexico Bowl 2006 Dreamstyle Stadium (39,224) Albuquerque, New Mexico $1,050,000

Military Bowl 2008 Navy–Marine Corps Memorial Stadium (34,000) Annapolis, Maryland $2,066,990

Gasparilla Bowl 2008 Raymond James Stadium (65,890) Tampa, Florida $1,133,735

Pinstripe Bowl 2010 Yankee Stadium[6] (54,251) Bronx, New York $4,300,000

First Responder Bowl 2010 Cotton Bowl (92,100) Dallas $1,667,000

Bahamas Bowl 2014 Thomas Robinson Stadium (15,023) Nassau, Bahamas $225,000

Boca Raton Bowl 2014 FAU Stadium (29,419) Boca Raton, Florida $1,000,000

Camellia Bowl 2014 Cramton Bowl (25,000) Montgomery, Alabama $250,000

Quick Lane Bowl[7][8] 2014 Ford Field (65,000) Detroit $750,000

Cure Bowl[9][10] 2015 Camping World Stadium (65,438) Orlando, Florida $751,115

Arizona Bowl 2015 Arizona Stadium (56,029) Tucson, Arizona $412,920

Frisco Bowl 2017 Toyota Stadium (20,500) Frisco, Texas $750,000 None

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Mikey, win or lose, all of those look better than missing the FCS Playoffs. Talking wins, most of them look better than making the FCS Playoffs and losing in the first round. Some of them look better than losing in the second round. Maybe only 3-4 of them look on par with losing the FCS Championship game. None of them look better than winning the FCS Championship, which we've done twice. Just my opinion. Glean from that what you will.

 

[IdaGriz01]

As a player, and especially as a fan, I think I could force myself to take part in the Bahama Bowl ... and Hawaii would work.

Always wondered: Who thinks their team might get into the Bahama Bowl and has their passport ready ahead of time. Hmmm ... How does that work?

But seriously, the "lesser" bowls survive for two reasons, well three. First, enough people do watch so the organizers at least break even. But even when they only break even, they count it a win because of the national publicity it provides. Second (and probably most important), coaches love the bowls because of the extra practice time. As I recall, they get 20 hours of extra practice time for every week between the end of the regular season and their bowl game. Considering how contact hours have been reduced over the past few years, those extra hours can be worth weight in goal. And, finally, the players (and staff?) do get a packet of "swag" (gifts, not "pay") for being there. Speaking of the Bahama Bowl, they did a special last year (or the one before), and each player got some really nice stuff -- the latest iPhone (I think) and more.

 

[MikeyGriz]

Mikey, win or lose, all of those look better than missing the FCS Playoffs. Talking wins, most of them look better than making the FCS Playoffs and losing in the first round. Some of them look better than losing in the second round. Maybe only 3-4 of them look on par with losing the FCS Championship game. None of them look better than winning the FCS Championship, which we've done twice. Just my opinion. Glean from that what you will.

I might agree that any one would be better than not making the FCS playoffs, but that's not the perspective that I approach it from. My perspective is moving up to FBS level with all of the additional costs and challenges into a conference that is not conected to a certain bowl game at the end of the season, then maybe getting the opportunity to get invited to the Cheeze-It Bowl, Belk Bowl, Cure Bowl, Frisco Bowl, Famous Potato Bowl, etc. against a team with a losing record just to field 2 teams. I just don't see the upside vs. where we are now. Strictly my opinion.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Mikey, win or lose, all of those look better than missing the FCS Playoffs. Talking wins, most of them look better than making the FCS Playoffs and losing in the first round. Some of them look better than losing in the second round. Maybe only 3-4 of them look on par with losing the FCS Championship game. None of them look better than winning the FCS Championship, which we've done twice. Just my opinion. Glean from that what you will.

I might agree that any one would be better than not making the FCS playoffs, but that's not the perspective that I approach it from. My perspective is moving up to FBS level with all of the additional costs and challenges into a conference that is not conected to a certain bowl game at the end of the season, then maybe getting the opportunity to get invited to the Cheeze-It Bowl, Belk Bowl, Cure Bowl, Frisco Bowl, Famous Potato Bowl, etc. against a team with a losing record just to field 2 teams. I just don't see the upside vs. where we are now. Strictly my opinion.

Totally agree that we can't be moving up now. If our permanent ceiling would be the Frisco Bowl, I think it's be best to stay down in FCS forever. I won't, however, pretend that I actually prefer sitting in the middle of the backseat with my feet on the hump just because that's my only current option. Not saying you're doing that, I've seen the sentiment through the years.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

We could play in THEEEEEE Cheez It Bowl!!!! I thought that only existed on my side table by the couch

 

[DuCharme]

Congrats to App St on winning 5 games against this gauntlet of teams with a combined win-loss record of 13-22:

Louisiana (Sun Belt) 3-4
Ark. State (Sun Belt) 4-3
South Alabama (Sun Belt) 2-5
Gardner Webb (FCS Big South) 1-6
Charlotte (Conf. USA) 3-4

Good thing they had a quality loss to Penn State.

And outside the Louisiana game, which was 27-17, they won those games by an average score of 51-8.

 

[PlayerRep]

PR, of course the OP never said that. Many on this board have. And more — including you— suggest specifically that there is no way MONTANA could have success at the FBS level.

OP has never said there is no way UM could have success at FBS level.

OP has said he believes UM would not win enough games in early years, to keep attendance high, which would be cause a significant loss of revenue and be bad for the program.

Also, that UM, at least currently, doesn't have nearly enough funding, or potential funding, to make the move to FBS. The UM consultant's study came to the same conclusion. Wasn't even a close call.

No conference possibility now either.

No way the UM president and MT Board of Regents would permit UM to make the risky move to FBS now either.

Other than that, it's all rosy for the pie in the sky types.

 

[dancingNMSUaggie]

So if they finish the year at #25, then what is their reward?

Probably a berth to the...Charmin Paper Products...wait for it...TOILET BOWL!!! Get it? Toilet Bowl! Because it's a bowl game that people in Montana don't care about, so it's like a bowl, but it's a TOILET bowl. Where people go to drop a deuce.

They long for the days when they could've won the chance to play in a triangular against the #2 FCS team and the Frisco Frisbees Football Club in front of dozens at Leonardo DiPizza Place Park and Arcade on ESPN+ and the Watch ESPN App (until it's cut off by the Spelling Bee Semifinals).

Any bowl is better than the FCS playoffs with the championship game played in a soccer stadium. You guys making fun of bowl games is hilarious. Too bad Boise State left FCS and Big Sky long ago to become a team every FBS college football fan knows. I know. I'm a fan of a sucky FBS program but give me FBS over FCS any day and the fantasy that anyone really cares outside of your little universe about Montana football losing to Portland State.

 

[kemajic]

So if they finish the year at #25, then what is their reward?

Probably a berth to the...Charmin Paper Products...wait for it...TOILET BOWL!!! Get it? Toilet Bowl! Because it's a bowl game that people in Montana don't care about, so it's like a bowl, but it's a TOILET bowl. Where people go to drop a deuce.

They long for the days when they could've won the chance to play in a triangular against the #2 FCS team and the Frisco Frisbees Football Club in front of dozens at Leonardo DiPizza Place Park and Arcade on ESPN+ and the Watch ESPN App (until it's cut off by the Spelling Bee Semifinals).

Any bowl is better than the FCS playoffs with the championship game played in a soccer stadium. You guys making fun of bowl games is hilarious. Too bad Boise State left FCS and Big Sky long ago to become a team every FBS college football fan knows. I know. I'm a fan of a sucky FBS program but give me FBS over FCS any day and the fantasy that anyone really cares outside of your little universe about Montana football losing to Portland State.

Acepting this reality is different than advocating a move-up for Montana, which is not going to happen for all the reasons outlined by PR. It doesn't mean we have to be champions of the BSC and FCS, even though we are stuck where we are. It seems every time there is criticism or a reality check on the state of BSC or FCS in general, it is defensively viewed as a move-up statement. There is no move-up option for Montana and won't be for several years, if ever, but we are not in Shangri-La.

 

[Ursa Major]

So if they finish the year at #25, then what is their reward?

Probably a berth to the...Charmin Paper Products...wait for it...TOILET BOWL!!! Get it? Toilet Bowl! Because it's a bowl game that people in Montana don't care about, so it's like a bowl, but it's a TOILET bowl. Where people go to drop a deuce.

They long for the days when they could've won the chance to play in a triangular against the #2 FCS team and the Frisco Frisbees Football Club in front of dozens at Leonardo DiPizza Place Park and Arcade on ESPN+ and the Watch ESPN App (until it's cut off by the Spelling Bee Semifinals).

Any bowl is better than the FCS playoffs with the championship game played in a soccer stadium. You guys making fun of bowl games is hilarious. Too bad Boise State left FCS and Big Sky long ago to become a team every FBS college football fan knows. I know. I'm a fan of a sucky FBS program but give me FBS over FCS any day and the fantasy that anyone really cares outside of your little universe about Montana football losing to Portland State.

Acepting this reality is different than advocating a move-up for Montana, which is not going to happen for all the reasons outlined by PR. It doesn't mean we have to be champions of the BSC and FCS, even though we are stuck where we are. It seems every time there is criticism or a reality check on the state of BSC or FCS in general, it is defensively viewed as a move-up statement. There is no move-up option for Montana and won't be for several years, if ever, but we are not in Shangri-La.

Good post, Kem! :clap:

 

[PlayerRep]

So if they finish the year at #25, then what is their reward?

Probably a berth to the...Charmin Paper Products...wait for it...TOILET BOWL!!! Get it? Toilet Bowl! Because it's a bowl game that people in Montana don't care about, so it's like a bowl, but it's a TOILET bowl. Where people go to drop a deuce.

They long for the days when they could've won the chance to play in a triangular against the #2 FCS team and the Frisco Frisbees Football Club in front of dozens at Leonardo DiPizza Place Park and Arcade on ESPN+ and the Watch ESPN App (until it's cut off by the Spelling Bee Semifinals).

Any bowl is better than the FCS playoffs with the championship game played in a soccer stadium. You guys making fun of bowl games is hilarious. Too bad Boise State left FCS and Big Sky long ago to become a team every FBS college football fan knows. I know. I'm a fan of a sucky FBS program but give me FBS over FCS any day and the fantasy that anyone really cares outside of your little universe about Montana football losing to Portland State.

Are you unaware that a football bowl game is now played in the "soccer" stadium. You are an idiot. You are welcome to your sucky team and crappy bowl possibilities.

 

[PlayerRep]

So if they finish the year at #25, then what is their reward?

Probably a berth to the...Charmin Paper Products...wait for it...TOILET BOWL!!! Get it? Toilet Bowl! Because it's a bowl game that people in Montana don't care about, so it's like a bowl, but it's a TOILET bowl. Where people go to drop a deuce.

They long for the days when they could've won the chance to play in a triangular against the #2 FCS team and the Frisco Frisbees Football Club in front of dozens at Leonardo DiPizza Place Park and Arcade on ESPN+ and the Watch ESPN App (until it's cut off by the Spelling Bee Semifinals).

Any bowl is better than the FCS playoffs with the championship game played in a soccer stadium. You guys making fun of bowl games is hilarious. Too bad Boise State left FCS and Big Sky long ago to become a team every FBS college football fan knows. I know. I'm a fan of a sucky FBS program but give me FBS over FCS any day and the fantasy that anyone really cares outside of your little universe about Montana football losing to Portland State.

Acepting this reality is different than advocating a move-up for Montana, which is not going to happen for all the reasons outlined by PR. It doesn't mean we have to be champions of the BSC and FCS, even though we are stuck where we are. It seems every time there is criticism or a reality check on the state of BSC or FCS in general, it is defensively viewed as a move-up statement. There is no move-up option for Montana and won't be for several years, if ever, but we are not in Shangri-La.

My view is that most of the bowls, except the top ones, are not as good as the FCS playoffs, especially when one's team is advancing.