App St bad press - players suspended for sexual assaults

[Skookum-Jim]

I think it's Obama or maybe Bill Clinton's fault. Just not sure how yet, can someone tell me?

 

[PlayerRep]

Interesting that . A university conduct board found them responsible for sex offenses and sexual misconduct. The DA is considering charges, the Observer reports.

Isn't that what Montana just put in place? Seems Appy has had it for awhile.

Can't help but wonder if App's model for discipline (as well as others) helped shape the new format that the UM uses.

Its something that should have been in place for a while.... It was figured out we were behind sometime last summer during a routine DOE audit. It was discussed during BOR meetings early last fall in regards to Both Universities. That would be the title IX portion. which more simply suggests that it is the schools responsibility to remove possible threats as soon as possible and not wait for the "legal process" which can drag on for months. A grade school would never leave an accused CHIMO in place waiting for a coinviction. (or any other business)

App state won't have a national scandal for sure, because they handled it.

Actually, the routine DOE audit at UM involved required reporting of crime stats under the Clery Act, according to the Kaimin article, and appears to have had nothing to do with Title IX or investigating allegations of sexual assault. Once again, it looks like TNT has made up stuff, exaggerated and provided false information. The DOE apparently found that UM over-reported some crimes and under-reported some, according to the Kaimin article. The Clery Act also involves warnings about crimes. Title IX, more than the Clery Act, deals with sexual assault policies and procedures. However, nothing in the Kaimin article mention polices. TNT, feel free to provide links to more information about the investigation.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/news/um-crime-reporting-flawed-1.2860731#.T6WbS82JmkI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleary_act" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Growler1]

I think it's Obama or maybe Bill Clinton's fault. Just not sure how yet, can someone tell me?

Nothing is ever Obama's fault, don't you know that. He is Teflon and impervious to criticism. We all know that everything is Bush's fault.

 

[TxGriz]

I believe this was Gwen Florios doing.......she is just out to get football players. 50% of the blame lays on Engstrom too......he should have realized that when he let Hauck and ODay light up the crime spree and continue it for a decade........other programs would follow the flagship.

I am lretty sure the App players in question were perfect gentlemen to the law enforcement officials and the charges will be dropped.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Crime spree? What crimes? Can you cite a few jury verdicts of guilty, or guilty pleas to charges of criminal sexual assault? So far all I have seen is your entering pleas of guilty to charges of criminal drunk driving on this forum.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I believe this was Gwen Florios doing.......she is just out to get football players. 50% of the blame lays on Engstrom too......he should have realized that when he let Hauck and ODay light up the crime spree and continue it for a decade........other programs would follow the flagship.

I am lretty sure the App players in question were perfect gentlemen to the law enforcement officials and the charges will be dropped.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Crime spree? What crimes? Can you cite a few jury verdicts of guilty, or guilty pleas to charges of criminal sexual assault? So far all I have seen is your entering pleas of guilty to charges of criminal drunk driving on this forum.

Keep your head in the sand or where ever it is........... :roll:

 

[tnt]

Did you read the article PR? ESPECIALLY the part where Linda Gee talked about coaches knowing about "crimes" and NOT reporting them?

Even someone such as you who splits hairs for a living should have been able to make the connection to that and subsequent events. Just the Cleary act? I think not.

 

[PlayerRep]

Did you read the article PR? ESPECIALLY the part where Linda Gee talked about coaches knowing about "crimes" and NOT reporting them?

Even someone such as you who splits hairs for a living should have been able to make the connection to that and subsequent events. Just the Cleary act? I think not.

Again, "reporting" of crimes is required by the Clery Act. The reporting is made to the federal government and made public. That's what the investigation was about and what I said. You tried to say the DOE investigation was about more than that. Just admit that you were wrong. Like I've said, you are a fountain of misinformation. Please stop.

 

[tnt]

Never said the investigation was mre than that. What I said was that in the course of the investigation, they realized they had a problem. Now if you want to say it was strictly with the statistical reporting, then so be it. Linda Gee said that the coaches had knowledge of crimes that were reported to no one else. That is certainly a problem. The cleary act requires more than a statistical report to the government, as the several campus wide alert messages of potential crime since proven. Couple the reporting deficienies, which certainly as Gee said in the article, no clear lines of communication, with the "Dear Colleague" letter and you have a University that was behind. We have had no greater amount of "rapes" or campus crime than anywhere else as has been pointed out. We simply did not have the mechanism to deal with it. App state did. While their might be some local fallout, everyone did their jobs, the players if not found guilty will be readmitted, there are no CNN trucks parked in town. No one has lost their jobs. No one is demanding someone lose their jobs. It could have been that way here.

It wasn't. And here is the sad thing, despite their unwillingness to protect the players until a court of law found them guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt, his high profile succesful program has its national reputation in tact. Despite their missing players, the outcome of our upcoming game is far from certain.

 

[PlayerRep]

TNT, actually the accuser says the players were protected and that they didn't get kicked out soon enough.

“If it was any other athlete, or a regular student, these guys would have been kicked out of the university immediately,” said the first victim. “They really put football on a pedestal.”

If your idea of a terrific process at App St?

"The university began its investigation last fall and the process was not only long, but messy. The university suspended two players pending the investigation, then reinstated them, then suspended them again after more than 100 students protested in a silent rally."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/05/03/3217488/appalachian-torn-over-sex-assaults.html#storylink=cpy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you think no UM football player has ever been suspended from school for sexual assault? Man, if so, you are really not paying attention.

Who's this Linda Gee you keep talking about?

 

[tnt]

LOL Linda Gee was a gal I went to school with. Apparently she made more of an impression than Jean Gee. I'm not at App state, so can't say how the folks their view it. The tone of the article and quotes from the students aren't much different than what we have been hearing here, especially since the Kaiman Incident with Hauck. But one thing is for sure App state isn't the focus of world wide media attention and a DOJ civil rights investigation.

I guess we'll have to disagree. This is a lot bigger deal than some are willing to admit. No amount of explaining or justification will change the fact the way the U of M and City of Missoula has handled their problems differs so much from the rest of the nation, as to draw a lot of attention.

 

[PlayerRep]

LOL Linda Gee was a gal I went to school with. Apparently she made more of an impression than Jean Gee. I'm not at App state, so can't say how the folks their view it. The tone of the article and quotes from the students aren't much different than what we have been hearing here, especially since the Kaiman Incident with Hauck. But one thing is for sure App state isn't the focus of world wide media attention and a DOJ civil rights investigation.

I guess we'll have to disagree. This is a lot bigger deal than some are willing to admit. No amount of explaining or justification will change the fact the way the U of M and City of Missoula has handled their problems differs so much from the rest of the nation, as to draw a lot of attention.

Actually, the City of MIssoula and UM have handled these problems better than most of the nation, and the Missoula county attorneys office has actually been fairly aggressive in investigating and pursuing sexual assault. That's why the announced DOJ investigation is especially odd. Added attention has been drawn to these problems by the local media, especially the Missoulian, which continues to put mere allegations on the front page. The Missoulian has given a front-page forum to any woman who wants to complain publicly about her situation, including ones who did not even report the situation to the university and ones whose allegations have apparently been so weak that the police/prosecutors declined to pursue them. Responsible media doesn't do this, or at least to this extent. UM and Engstrom have also done some things to propel some of the matters into the national press.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

LOL Linda Gee was a gal I went to school with. Apparently she made more of an impression than Jean Gee. I'm not at App state, so can't say how the folks their view it. The tone of the article and quotes from the students aren't much different than what we have been hearing here, especially since the Kaiman Incident with Hauck. But one thing is for sure App state isn't the focus of world wide media attention and a DOJ civil rights investigation.

I guess we'll have to disagree. This is a lot bigger deal than some are willing to admit. No amount of explaining or justification will change the fact the way the U of M and City of Missoula has handled their problems differs so much from the rest of the nation, as to draw a lot of attention.

Actually, the City of MIssoula and UM have handled these problems better than most of the nation, and the Missoula county attorneys office has actually been fairly aggressive in investigating and pursuing sexual assault. That's why the announced DOJ investigation is especially odd. Added attention has been drawn to these problems by the local media, especially the Missoulian, which continues to put mere allegations on the front page. The Missoulian has given a front-page forum to any woman who wants to complain publicly about her situation, including ones who did not even report the situation to the university and ones whose allegations have apparently been so weak that the police/prosecutors declined to pursue them. Responsible media doesn't do this, or at least to this extent. UM and Engstrom have also done some things to propel some of the matters into the national press.

So now the cops are NOT out to get the players and are a crack police force?

:roll:
Wow



Just wow.......... :lol:

 

[grizatwork]

LOL Linda Gee was a gal I went to school with. Apparently she made more of an impression than Jean Gee. I'm not at App state, so can't say how the folks their view it. The tone of the article and quotes from the students aren't much different than what we have been hearing here, especially since the Kaiman Incident with Hauck. But one thing is for sure App state isn't the focus of world wide media attention and a DOJ civil rights investigation.

I guess we'll have to disagree. This is a lot bigger deal than some are willing to admit. No amount of explaining or justification will change the fact the way the U of M and City of Missoula has handled their problems differs so much from the rest of the nation, as to draw a lot of attention.

Actually, the City of MIssoula and UM have handled these problems better than most of the nation, and the Missoula county attorneys office has actually been fairly aggressive in investigating and pursuing sexual assault. That's why the announced DOJ investigation is especially odd. Added attention has been drawn to these problems by the local media, especially the Missoulian, which continues to put mere allegations on the front page. The Missoulian has given a front-page forum to any woman who wants to complain publicly about her situation, including ones who did not even report the situation to the university and ones whose allegations have apparently been so weak that the police/prosecutors declined to pursue them. Responsible media doesn't do this, or at least to this extent. UM and Engstrom have also done some things to propel some of the matters into the national press.

So now the cops are NOT out to get the players and are a crack police force?

:roll:
Wow



Just wow.......... :lol:

Yep, he much be exhausted at the end of the day from all the fence jumping he does. He much be one damn good lawyer though. He can change his defense strategy in a split second and doesn't miss a beat.

 

[MTOutsider]

App St must not be a law school.

 

[GrizLA]

LOL Linda Gee was a gal I went to school with. Apparently she made more of an impression than Jean Gee. I'm not at App state, so can't say how the folks their view it. The tone of the article and quotes from the students aren't much different than what we have been hearing here, especially since the Kaiman Incident with Hauck. But one thing is for sure App state isn't the focus of world wide media attention and a DOJ civil rights investigation.

I guess we'll have to disagree. This is a lot bigger deal than some are willing to admit. No amount of explaining or justification will change the fact the way the U of M and City of Missoula has handled their problems differs so much from the rest of the nation, as to draw a lot of attention.

Actually, the City of MIssoula and UM have handled these problems better than most of the nation, and the Missoula county attorneys office has actually been fairly aggressive in investigating and pursuing sexual assault. That's why the announced DOJ investigation is especially odd. Added attention has been drawn to these problems by the local media, especially the Missoulian, which continues to put mere allegations on the front page. The Missoulian has given a front-page forum to any woman who wants to complain publicly about her situation, including ones who did not even report the situation to the university and ones whose allegations have apparently been so weak that the police/prosecutors declined to pursue them. Responsible media doesn't do this, or at least to this extent. UM and Engstrom have also done some things to propel some of the matters into the national press.

OH, geezuz............

 

[PlayerRep]

LOL Linda Gee was a gal I went to school with. Apparently she made more of an impression than Jean Gee. I'm not at App state, so can't say how the folks their view it. The tone of the article and quotes from the students aren't much different than what we have been hearing here, especially since the Kaiman Incident with Hauck. But one thing is for sure App state isn't the focus of world wide media attention and a DOJ civil rights investigation.

I guess we'll have to disagree. This is a lot bigger deal than some are willing to admit. No amount of explaining or justification will change the fact the way the U of M and City of Missoula has handled their problems differs so much from the rest of the nation, as to draw a lot of attention.

Actually, the City of MIssoula and UM have handled these problems better than most of the nation, and the Missoula county attorneys office has actually been fairly aggressive in investigating and pursuing sexual assault. That's why the announced DOJ investigation is especially odd. Added attention has been drawn to these problems by the local media, especially the Missoulian, which continues to put mere allegations on the front page. The Missoulian has given a front-page forum to any woman who wants to complain publicly about her situation, including ones who did not even report the situation to the university and ones whose allegations have apparently been so weak that the police/prosecutors declined to pursue them. Responsible media doesn't do this, or at least to this extent. UM and Engstrom have also done some things to propel some of the matters into the national press.

So now the cops are NOT out to get the players and are a crack police force?

:roll:
Wow



Just wow.......... :lol:

Yep, he much be exhausted at the end of the day from all the fence jumping he does. He much be one damn good lawyer though. He can change his defense strategy in a split second and doesn't miss a beat.

Both county attorney Van Valkenburg and Mayor Engen has supported and even praised the Missoula police for their efforts regarding investigation of sexual assaults.

Just for the record, I have never blamed the Missoula police for any UM problem, except for the party/taser incident--and I was completely right on that one. Just like the players' attorney said, the police acted inappropriately. Actually, it looked like it was just 1.5 policeman--the main one and another who was saying inappropriate and borderline racist things.

 

[PlayerRep]

LOL Linda Gee was a gal I went to school with. Apparently she made more of an impression than Jean Gee. I'm not at App state, so can't say how the folks their view it. The tone of the article and quotes from the students aren't much different than what we have been hearing here, especially since the Kaiman Incident with Hauck. But one thing is for sure App state isn't the focus of world wide media attention and a DOJ civil rights investigation.

I guess we'll have to disagree. This is a lot bigger deal than some are willing to admit. No amount of explaining or justification will change the fact the way the U of M and City of Missoula has handled their problems differs so much from the rest of the nation, as to draw a lot of attention.

Actually, the City of MIssoula and UM have handled these problems better than most of the nation, and the Missoula county attorneys office has actually been fairly aggressive in investigating and pursuing sexual assault. That's why the announced DOJ investigation is especially odd. Added attention has been drawn to these problems by the local media, especially the Missoulian, which continues to put mere allegations on the front page. The Missoulian has given a front-page forum to any woman who wants to complain publicly about her situation, including ones who did not even report the situation to the university and ones whose allegations have apparently been so weak that the police/prosecutors declined to pursue them. Responsible media doesn't do this, or at least to this extent. UM and Engstrom have also done some things to propel some of the matters into the national press.

OH, geezuz............

This from the poster who claimed to have never heard of any sexual assaults during his 18 years education. I've often thought alot of posters were completely out of it and made idiotic posts, but the below post was really quite amazing.

"In my 18 years of education, I did not hear of one case of rape...sorry. If it happened, both men and women certainly kept it secret from all around them....."
http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=57054&p=758958#p758958" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tnt]

Just for the record, I have never blamed the Missoula police for any UM problem, except for the party/taser incident--and I was completely right on that one. Just like the players' attorney said, the police acted inappropriately. Actually, it looked like it was just 1.5 policeman--the main one and another who was saying inappropriate and borderline racist things.

I'm sorry I just have to laugh here, the officers were cleared..... By the same process that has cleared the players. How can it be right on one hand and wrong on the other??? I realize you have said before the misdemeanor charges were reduced to misdemeanor charges proving the players innocence, but can no charges resulting in no charges clear the same police force who has acted in an "exemplary manor?"

I realize I didn't go to law school, so can't see the difference so could you explain it???

 

[PlayerRep]

Just for the record, I have never blamed the Missoula police for any UM problem, except for the party/taser incident--and I was completely right on that one. Just like the players' attorney said, the police acted inappropriately. Actually, it looked like it was just 1.5 policeman--the main one and another who was saying inappropriate and borderline racist things.

I'm sorry I just have to laugh here, the officers were cleared..... By the same process that has cleared the players. How can it be right on one hand and wrong on the other??? I realize you have said before the misdemeanor charges were reduced to misdemeanor charges proving the players innocence, but can no charges resulting in no charges clear the same police force who has acted in an "exemplary manor?"

I realize I didn't go to law school, so can't see the difference so could you explain it???

No, the officers were not "cleared". Yes, the police chief said the officers didn't violate tasing policy, but the officers received criticism for their inappropriate and borderline racist comments. The word was that the matter was dropped because the tasing was in fact inappropriate, and the particular officer had another bad tasing complaint going against him at the same time. The players' law firm certainly never backed off saying the police behavior was essentially police brutality.

Why do you think the two most serious misdemeanor charges were dropped, and only disorderly conduct remained? Since you obviously don't know, I'll tell you. It was because the facts and multiple witnesses didn't support the charges and the particular officer had some history on inappropriate tasing.

 

[tnt]

No, the officers were not "cleared". Yes, the police chief said the officers didn't violate tasing policy, but the officers received criticism for their inappropriate and borderline racist comments. The word was that the matter was dropped because the tasing was in fact inappropriate, and the particular officer had another bad tasing complaint going against him at the same time. The players' law firm certainly never backed off saying the police behavior was essentially police brutality.

Why do you think the two most serious misdemeanor charges were dropped, and only disorderly conduct remained? Since you obviously don't know, I'll tell you. It was because the facts and multiple witnesses didn't support the charges and the particular officer had some history on inappropriate tasing.

"the word was" Seems to me that's one of the things YOU rail against the most..... The problem is that the supposed video never surfaced, and although its been a long time since I was at a college party, I can't imagine the participants of the party taking the cops side of anything.... But with our zealous Police force and County Attorney, I would think that a taze happy cop wouldn't be around long (especially after the rather large payout for roughing up a retired Doc just a few months before)

I would have thought that if it was as serious a case of police brutality as you say, I would have thought a high powered law firm would have had NO charges and a settlement at the least seeing as they were innocent and the victims of over zealous racist cops......