An apology from Rolling Stone

[UMGriz75]

Small point. The trial lasted just under 3 weeks, from Feb. 11 to March 1. There may have been a couple days when they didn't have trial, or mornings off or something like that.

Wow. It didn't seem like it lasted that long. I have modified my original post accordingly.

 

[Umista]

100 % yes 100 % of every female I have visited with was and is in accord with Jordon Johnson's trial, verdict, situation, Florio's reporting and everything associated with with the entire deal. I can't think of a male I know having another view point on the matter but what is amazing to me is the female feelings on this horrible event. My guess is that 99.99 % of us humans dislike rape and any thing associated with it. It seems or at least in my mind when a rape trial is on or underway most women tend to think the man is guilty and a good number of men feel the same way.

Mob rule and hysteria were the simple reasons Johnson was tried for rape. Pat Williams and his wife among others were very instrumental in making fellow democrat Van--- take this less than reasonable case to trial. Politics and stupidity rode togeher. Toss in week kneed RE and we had a complete fiasco. Kracker, the famous author is falling for Florio's rants and expects to sell copies of his f---ing book. Pun intended. The book part is of little interest to me.

The damage to our beloved university continues to hurt and we are floating in a sea without any shore in sight. Leaderless. Regents are smug, none able to figure this out!

 

[statler & waldorf]

Umista, one thing is clear, wringing our hands and hoping for the best has not worked.
As a contributor, You have Access to those who can make change, and , a voice which will be heard. The question is, What are You prepared to do? It's only our University, not like it's something important. We'll still have one University left. Perhaps if a group of significant contributors got together with the decisión makers, RE and crew would become only a bitter memory. Old saying: Better to light a single candle than Curse the darkness.

 

[UMGriz75]

100 % yes 100 % of every female I have visited with was and is in accord with Jordon Johnson's trial, verdict, situation, Florio's reporting and everything associated with with the entire deal. I can't think of a male I know having another view point on the matter but what is amazing to me is the female feelings on this horrible event. My guess is that 99.99 % of us humans dislike rape and any thing associated with it. It seems or at least in my mind when a rape trial is on or underway most women tend to think the man is guilty and a good number of men feel the same way.

Mob rule and hysteria were the simple reasons Johnson was tried for rape.

I teach at UM, and this was the opinion of virtually everyone; the better they knew the "victim," the more strongly they expressed the opinion, women more strongly than men. The credibility of the "accuser" decreased logarithmically with the degree of personal knowledge of her on campus.

This was the "Duke Lacrosse" scandal, the Brian Banks travesty, innumerable others in instant replay. The more important the "narrative" to politically invested parties, the more likely that that the narrative was not just false, but blatantly so.

Gwen Florio was precisely as described by Harper Lee in "To Kill a Mockingbird," a reporter out with a vengeance to portray the accused as deserving of a good "ol' fashioned lynching," because of his membership in a lesser class, one that did not deserve "rights," and which is offensive to the social justice sanctity of a politically protected class that could not be required to submit to such indignities as "telling the truth."

 

[Umista]

75, I now understand why you write to the point and basicaly so damn well. I, on the otherside did not make it on to graduate from UM. And I write as such. Some claim I did very well in business and that allowed for me to employ people to write for me and lawyers to "law" for me. None realize I participate on E-griz. In any event I remain a solid backer of the U and espicially of the sports programs.

 

[Retiredram1]

I wonder if anyone else is watching 60 minutes and seeing the similarity between the Duke lacrosse issue and ours at University of Montana. Players falsely accused of rape, community outrage, coach fired.........

 

[statler & waldorf]

Dateline, or one of the other' investigative programs' was supposedly in Missoula a year or two ago about the UM saga. Never heard what came of it.

 

[PlayerRep]

I wonder if anyone else is watching 60 minutes and seeing the similarity between the Duke lacrosse issue and ours at University of Montana. Players falsely accused of rape, community outrage, coach fired.........

I missed the show, but my wife just said the same thing about the similarity between the two situations. I'm glad Pflu finally got a job recently. Had only coached 1 out of 3 years, year 2 at Weber. Literally, a dozen or so opportunities, which, when push came to shove, someone above the head coach wouldn't approve his hiring. My respect for college presidents and AD's has dropped. They are too PC, and have no balls.

 

[statler & waldorf]

One póster said Pflu was coaching at the College of the Desert in Palm Desert, CA. Their site has no mention of this. What's the truth??

 

[PlayerRep]

One póster said Pflu was coaching at the College of the Desert in Palm Desert, CA. Their site has no mention of this. What's the truth??

Phoenix College Bears. The head coach is a friend of his from ASU days. Looks like they have some improvement to do, to get some wins.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

I wonder if anyone else is watching 60 minutes and seeing the similarity between the Duke lacrosse issue and ours at University of Montana. Players falsely accused of rape, community outrage, coach fired.........

I missed the show, but my wife just said the same thing about the similarity between the two situations. I'm glad Pflu finally got a job recently. Had only coached 1 out of 3 years, year 2 at Weber. Literally, a dozen or so opportunities, which, when push came to shove, someone above the head coach wouldn't approve his hiring. My respect for college presidents and AD's has dropped. They are too PC, and have no balls.

You've had some great posts on the whole subject of the UM rape scandal and subsequent fall out but this post crystallizes the issue. Great job.....

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Dan is a good guy and a pretty good golfer.

He was on Bruce Snyders staff at ASU after Larry Marmie was replaced.

 

[GrizPony]

At best, Florio is an unprincipled snake. Notice how "getgrizzy" Florio has disappeared....

 

[getgrizzy]

I wonder if anyone else is watching 60 minutes and seeing the similarity between the Duke lacrosse issue and ours at University of Montana. Players falsely accused of rape, community outrage, coach fired.........

I missed the show, but my wife just said the same thing about the similarity between the two situations. I'm glad Pflu finally got a job recently. Had only coached 1 out of 3 years, year 2 at Weber. Literally, a dozen or so opportunities, which, when push came to shove, someone above the head coach wouldn't approve his hiring. My respect for college presidents and AD's has dropped. They are too PC, and have no balls.

You've had some great posts on the whole subject of the UM rape scandal and subsequent fall out but this post crystallizes the issue. Great job.....

Lots of dissimilarity too...
The Duke case was proven to be a false accusation. The case against JJ or any other UM football player was not.
The prosecutor was disbarred for knowingly making false statements.
Police were accused of intimidating defense witnesses.
The chief investigator was fired shortly after prosecutors disbarment.
Rape charges were dropped in the Duke case.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Just because the MCA's office wasn't corrupt like in the Duke case doesn't distinguish the Duke case. The trial testimony and evidence here proved this was a false accusation. In Montana, like most states, rape shield laws prohibit the introduction of evidence of alleged accuser conduct in similar situations. Those who know JJ know he wouldn't do what was alleged. Those who knew the accuser didn't believe her story for a moment. The person who knew her best, knowing her entire daily life history, her mother, did not believe her. This was a false accusation, which someday, down the road well past any statute of limitations, the accuser will likely confess to.

Without the DOJ breathing down Van Valkenberg's neck this would have never been prosecuted (charges dropped). Only a moron grasping for some thread to hang onto, clings to a preconceived belief in a false narrative that succumbs to all proof and rational thought. Every word of defense uttered by GG since the trial shows their grasp on internal hysteria tightening, and their rational thought continuing to drift away. Being too emotionally tied to a falsehood to see the truth is no virtue, Gwen.

 

[UMGriz75]

I wonder if anyone else is watching 60 minutes and seeing the similarity between the Duke lacrosse issue and ours at University of Montana. Players falsely accused of rape, community outrage, coach fired.........

I missed the show, but my wife just said the same thing about the similarity between the two situations. I'm glad Pflu finally got a job recently. Had only coached 1 out of 3 years, year 2 at Weber. Literally, a dozen or so opportunities, which, when push came to shove, someone above the head coach wouldn't approve his hiring. My respect for college presidents and AD's has dropped. They are too PC, and have no balls.

You've had some great posts on the whole subject of the UM rape scandal and subsequent fall out but this post crystallizes the issue. Great job.....

Lots of dissimilarity too...
The Duke case was proven to be a false accusation. The case against JJ or any other UM football player was not.
The prosecutor was disbarred for knowingly making false statements.
Police were accused of intimidating defense witnesses.
The chief investigator was fired shortly after prosecutors disbarment.
Rape charges were dropped in the Duke case.

It took more than a year for the Duke case to "unravel," and that was only because of the caliber (and expense) of skilled defense attorneys, who could afford to overcome the substantial advantages accruing to the prosecution in any case.

And note, in Missoula, it was almost as though a decision had been made to "ensure" that the quality of the "defense" was not going to overcome the prosecution's advantages as it did in the Duke LaCrosse case: full time county staff, state AG attorney assigned to case, local private glory-seeking attorney working "pro bono," -- much like Nifong, looking to make a political name for himself -- the DOJ looking over everyone's shoulders to ensure a conviction. Nifong lost, and went down, but in Missoula, DOJ was going to drown this defense in a prosecutorial tidal wave. The "Narrative" was not going to lose again.

And at that, the Duke case took more than a year to unravel because of dishonest people such as getgrizzly who peddled the meme, the "Narrative," because it satisfied their pre-judged ideological dispositions. People like you are beyond disgusting.

In Missoula, the case "unravelled" in front of a jury. It got that far primarily because of a presiding Judge who was determined to see a conviction. But, even she could not prevent the unfolding, during the prosecution case, of a case that should not have been tried, obvious to anyone in the Courtroom, and obvious to the Jury. As noted, the case was over after the first witness, the alleged "victim," completed her testimony. There had been no rape.

A forgotten chapter of the story is what happened to the Blue Devils' head coach at the time, Mike Pressler. The reigning National Coach of the Year, Pressler was the only person at Duke to lose his job as a result of the scandal that wasn't.

Pressler has never spoken at length about what happened to him at Duke - the rush to judgment that has left a mark on his life to this day.

Mike Pressler: Google up one of the boys' names, my name, and then, you know, on the computer you saw the word "rape," "sexual assault" next to your name. That, to me, that just was-- even today, I get emotional about it. Because it just-- everything you built, everything-- all-- everything you stood for. And to have two of those type of phrases or words associated with your name just-- even right now, as I speak to you, Armen, I'm getting angry over that.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-duke-lacrosse-coach-on-rape-scandal-60-minutes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Three weeks into the scandal, Pressler reached a crossroads: stand by his players, or save himself and his career.

Mike Pressler: I was actually advised early on to distance myself from them and at that time, I-- that was, like, blasphemy. You-- you're tellin' me that? We don't run. We don't quit, you know. That's not how we're made. You finish. You sign on, you finish what you start at all costs, you know. That's it. You finish it.

Armen Keteyian: The word that comes up time and time and time again with you is loyalty. Why is that word so important to you?

Mike Pressler: It's everything. It's - it's everything. And without that, as a man, you have nothing.

With the rape scandal at full boil here at Duke, Pressler was summoned to the office of then-athletic director Joe Alleva, where he was issued an ultimatum: resign immediately or risk being fired. So Pressler resigned, the sacrificial lamb needed to appease protestors and protect the school's gold-plated image.

Note the similarity. Pflu was fired because he was loyal to his quarterback that he knew well. O'Day was fired because he was loyal to his head coach because he knew him well. Engstrom was no better than Richard Brodhead, president of Duke.

Make no mistake about it. Engstrom was determined to prove that loyalty and integrity had no place at the University of Montana if they came into conflict with politically-correct "Narratives," which, all too often, they inevitably do.

Chris Kennedy: I think that in some quarters of the university administration, there was some belief that this may have happened. And that if that's the case, they had to respond.

Armen Keteyian: But it turns out nothing did happen.

Chris Kennedy: Correct.

Armen Keteyian: And Mike's the only one to lose his job over this.

Chris Kennedy: Correct.

Armen Keteyian: And as we sit here nine years later, what do you think of that?

Chris Kennedy: I think that a lot of officials at the university have come to the realization or came to the realization within a year or so that probably Mike shouldn't have lost his job.

But he did. Almost overnight, the reigning National Coach of the Year had become toxic, an untouchable in the world of college lacrosse.

Pressler applied - and was turned down - for volunteer high school positions. But he still hadn't hit rock bottom. That happened at his alma mater, Washington and Lee, where Pressler had been the captain of both the lacrosse and football teams.

 

[getgrizzy]

Just because the MCA's office wasn't corrupt like in the Duke case doesn't distinguish the Duke case. The trial testimony and evidence here proved this was a false accusation. In Montana, like most states, rape shield laws prohibit the introduction of evidence of alleged accuser conduct in similar situations. Those who know JJ know he wouldn't do what was alleged. Those who knew the accuser didn't believe her story for a moment. The person who knew her best, knowing her entire daily life history, her mother, did not believe her. This was a false accusation, which someday, down the road well past any statute of limitations, the accuser will likely confess to.

Without the DOJ breathing down Van Valkenberg's neck this would have never been prosecuted (charges dropped). Only a moron grasping for some thread to hang onto, clings to a preconceived belief in a false narrative that succumbs to all proof and rational thought. Every word of defense uttered by GG since the trial shows their grasp on internal hysteria tightening, and their rational thought continuing to drift away. Being too emotionally tied to a falsehood to see the truth is no virtue, Gwen.

The evidence and testimony did nothing to prove it was a false accusation. Van Valkenberg stated after the trial that not guilty isn't the same as innocent.

I've seen or heard nothing that her friends and family didn't believe her. I hope for your own sake you aren't making that up. It would be hard to live with a lie like that. I'm sure if that were true this message board would be saturated with threads about it. Please provide some proof of what you're stating or check yourself.

 

[UMGriz75]

The evidence and testimony did nothing to prove it was a false accusation. Van Valkenberg stated after the trial that not guilty isn't the same as innocent.

I've seen or heard nothing that her friends and family didn't believe her. I hope for your own sake you aren't making that up. It would be hard to live with a lie like that. I'm sure if that were true this message board would be saturated with threads about it. Please provide some proof of what you're stating or check yourself.

Your ignorance, while making claims to the contrary out of sheer ignorance, is all "agenda."

This is a disgusting part of this. Pathetic people like you will continue to "raise questions" that have been answered in a mendacious effort to promote the discredited "Narrative."

As defense attorney David Paoli wrapped up questioning of the alleged victim in the Jordan Johnson sexual assault trial Wednesday morning, Feb. 14 in Missoula County District Court many things came to light in regards to her relationships and behaviors with friends and family following the incident. The woman confirmed that she told her mother that if she didn’t take her side in the situation that she would no longer have anything to do with her. She told something similar to her aunt and her cousin, who she described in yesterday’s questioning with the prosecution were like a mom and a sister to her, respectively.

Jordan Johnson Accuser Admits Telling Mom ‘Get on Board on My Side or I’m Not Going to Have Anything to Do With You’ | http://newstalkkgvo.com/jordan-johsnon-accuser-admits-telling-mom-get-on-board-on-my-side-or-im-not-going-to-have-anything-to-do-with-you/?trackback=tsmclip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paoli also asked her about a note she sent to a high school friend in Great Falls that detailed the trouble she was having with getting her mom, aunt and cousin to be on her side, and also included thoughts she was having about feeling responsible for what happened and even guilty.

Part of that note read:

And now I keep thinking that maybe I did want it, and that’s why I didn’t punch him or kick him or bite him. It’s all kind of ridiculous because I know I didn’t ask for it.The more and more this goes on, the more I feel guilty about it. The whole situation makes me think I just lied.

Is it hard to live with a lie like yours? Or is "ignorant" simply a status you have rightfully earned?

 

[getgrizzy]

The evidence and testimony did nothing to prove it was a false accusation. Van Valkenberg stated after the trial that not guilty isn't the same as innocent.

I've seen or heard nothing that her friends and family didn't believe her. I hope for your own sake you aren't making that up. It would be hard to live with a lie like that. I'm sure if that were true this message board would be saturated with threads about it. Please provide some proof of what you're stating or check yourself.

This is a disgusting part of this. Pathetic people like you will continue to "raise questions" that have been answered in a mendacious effort to promote the discredited "Narrative."

As defense attorney David Paoli wrapped up questioning of the alleged victim in the Jordan Johnson sexual assault trial Wednesday morning, Feb. 14 in Missoula County District Court many things came to light in regards to her relationships and behaviors with friends and family following the incident. The woman confirmed that she told her mother that if she didn’t take her side in the situation that she would no longer have anything to do with her. She told something similar to her aunt and her cousin, who she described in yesterday’s questioning with the prosecution were like a mom and a sister to her, respectively.

Jordan Johnson Accuser Admits Telling Mom ‘Get on Board on My Side or I’m Not Going to Have Anything to Do With You’ | http://newstalkkgvo.com/jordan-johsnon-accuser-admits-telling-mom-get-on-board-on-my-side-or-im-not-going-to-have-anything-to-do-with-you/?trackback=tsmclip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paoli also asked her about a note she sent to a high school friend in Great Falls that detailed the trouble she was having with getting her mom, aunt and cousin to be on her side, and also included thoughts she was having about feeling responsible for what happened and even guilty.

Part of that note read:

And now I keep thinking that maybe I did want it, and that’s why I didn’t punch him or kick him or bite him. It’s all kind of ridiculous because I know I didn’t ask for it.The more and more this goes on, the more I feel guilty about it. The whole situation makes me think I just lied.

OFFS! That doesn't mean they didn't believe her. If that's the only possible meaning behind that then you're either very narrow minded or you have an agenda. Lots of parents and friends don't want their children to do certain things. Join the service, go to spring break in Mexico, buy certain types of cars. I'm sure Jane Doe's family and friends aren't the first to be against their daughter making a rape claim.

 

[UMGriz75]

OFFS! That doesn't mean they didn't believe her. If that's the only possible meaning behind that then you're either very narrow minded or you have an agenda. Lots of parents and friends don't want their children to do certain things. Join the service, go to spring break in Mexico, buy certain types of cars. I'm sure Jane Doe's family and friends aren't the first to be against their daughter making a rape claim.

Buy pets that require too much care. Purchase clothing that isn't wrinkle free. Drink too much coffee. All the kinds of things that cause a daughter to threaten her mother (and closest relatives) that she will NEVER have anything to do with them again. Just normal conversation about Spring Break and buying a car. Right.

Do you have any sense of self-embarrassment?

Your credibility: Stre-e-e-e-t--c--h, SNAP!