An apology from Rolling Stone

[argh!]

how can an analogy be "complete"? accurate, correct, spot-on, true - sure, but complete? someone's slipping. hey um75, would you consider sending your drama queen soliloquies to greenie for editing before you post them?

he's a professional.

 

[AZGrizFan]

If 75s credibility is in the tank then so is the juries, who decided this. I attended the trial 3 days, the first being when the accuser testified. By the end of her testimony all you had to do was look at the jury and know that it was over. They didn't buy a word she said. What the Missoulioan reported throughout the trial was not remotely close to what actually was said in the courtroom, and that has been 75s point. Someone who only read the Missoulian reports would have no idea what was actually happening in the courtroom.

Thank you for that observation. The Missoullian coverage leading up to the trial was bizarre enough in many ways, but during the trial, it simply went over the cliff.

The analogy between what the Rolling Stone article attempted to achieve, and what Gwen Florio attempted to achieve, is complete. In neither case did the reporter report what happened, but rather they reported what they "desperately" wanted to have happened, in order to support pre-judged and pre-arranged agendas.

The editors at the Rolling Stone owed no apologies to the editors at the Missoulian under the same circumstances. As testimony after testimony unfolded, what was reported by the Missoulian and what was actually said under oath described two different trials unfolding -- the one before an empaneled jury in the real courtroom, and the one that Gwen Florio desperately wished was unfolding, and chose to write about.

The "Tweets" that accompanied the testimony, literally sentence by sentence, should have made it clear to any honest editor. And to those of us who directly watched and listened to the direct testimony, in the Courtroom, the "Tweets" were far more accurate than the reports of the educated journalism reporter paid to honor the public with straightfoward reporting of facts.

If the witnesses were not going to give her what she wanted, Florio was determined to write it up anyway. I noted at the time, witness after witness, that in most cases the State's witnesses would make some devastating admission, the looks on the Juror's faces were unmistakable, and yet Florio's reporting made it seem like the State was making home run after home run.

Anyone relying on Florio would have had no idea of how bad that case was, and how badly it was being presented.

And that is because she was writing a Rolling Stone-style expose, designed purely to advance a partisan agenda, and that was her last chance to ensure that the historical record -- "news reports" -- told it as she wanted it told, not as it happened.

It was disgraceful "journalism," and the Missoulian staff was, as the Rolling Stone staff was, entirely complicit it.

Rolling Stone got caught by the Washington Post. The Missoulian was exposed by a unanimous jury verdict.

Unfortunately, the journalistic situation you just discribed is just the way it is now days. In fact, these "hacks" like Gwen know that most Americans want their news reported in a slanted way and with a pre-determind agenda. The abolishment of the "equal time" clause and the development of talk radio have made sure of that. Yes, the days of an iconic broadcaster like Walter Cronkite diligently reporting the evening news are long gone. Sure CNN tried to be an unbiased news organization but they soon realized that they couldn't compete with the MSNBCs and FOXNEWs of the world. It's all about ratings now not journalistic integrity and accuracy. And if you'll excuse me, I'm going to fire up a Marlboro 100 and drink my Beefeaters and tonic.....

I got news for ya: although he might have been more subtle about it, even ol' Walter was biased at times....especially when it came to our involvment in the Viet Nam war...truly complete "unbiased" journalists simply can't exist...it's not in human nature.

 

[statler & waldorf]

Bingo, montanaguy! Unlike those, posters advocating locking threads like this and "moving on," forgiving and forgetting the events of the last several years, keeping this active and a festering boil on the ass of Engstroms administration and supporting cast is, apparently, the only chance the University has of pulling out of this death spiral. The Rolling Stone debacle would pale in comparison to what the Missoulian, and others, got away with unchallenged.

 

[Big Hole Griz]

I attended Journalism school at Montana. Had they hired Gwen Florio to teach my reporting class, I would have changed my major or transferred to another school.

 

[UMGriz75]

I attended Journalism school at Montana. Had they hired Gwen Florio to teach my reporting class, I would have changed my major or transferred to another school.

I enjoyed my time in the UM J-School immensely. But, giving Florio a position was akin to the Columbia School of Journalism hiring Sabrina Eardely. It was simply a disgusting insult to the notion of a "Journalism" school.

I refused to attend the 100th anniversary last summer, and my estate planning, which had more or less settled on a $500,000 donation to the J-School at some point, will not now ever happen. It may go to Football instead.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

I attended Journalism school at Montana. Had they hired Gwen Florio to teach my reporting class, I would have changed my major or transferred to another school.

I enjoyed my time in the UM J-School immensely. But, giving Florio a position was akin to the Columbia School of Journalism hiring Sabrina Eardely. It was simply a disgusting insult to the notion of a "Journalism" school.

I refused to attend the 100th anniversary last summer, and my estate planning, which had more or less settled on a $500,000 donation to the J-School at some point, will not now ever happen. It may go to Football instead.

Hmmm.....with the declining enrollment and the subsequent financial issues lingering, you'd think RE might terminate Gwen knowing that a 500k gift was potentially being withheld......

 

[Big Hole Griz]

Bravo!

 

[statler & waldorf]

That could become reality, CV Griz Fan, if publicized to the BOR, Governor, legislative leaders, television, radio, and newspaper outlets across the state were made aware of the decision, and reasons behind it. It could, ultimately, bring the whole house of cards down. What say you, 75?

 

['68griz]

I attended Journalism school at Montana. Had they hired Gwen Florio to teach my reporting class, I would have changed my major or transferred to another school.

Yeah, me too!!!!

 

[Umista]

I am old and I never thought I would run into a Griz fan that I despised and disliked because of his disturbing and extreme slanted view points about a non athletic event dealing with one of our athletes. aka getgri---

The hire of Florio is another bust. Engstrom is leading, does he remind us of the political mess in Wasington? One step ahead and quickly two steps in reverse. The hire of Florio, the person who had more to do with the decline of enrollemt at our school than any human alive must be exposed. This is a disgrace. It was and is dumb to the bone!

 

[UMGriz75]

Engstrom is leading, does he remind us of the political mess in Wasington? One step ahead and quickly two steps in reverse. The hire of Florio, the person who had more to do with the decline of enrollemt at our school than any human alive must be exposed. This is a disgrace. It was and is dumb to the bone!

Engstrom manufactured a crisis and fired, without cause, two widely respected men. Then, as to the person who, aside from Engstrom himself, was singularly on a campaign to prove to the world that UM was "Rape Nation," causing a catastrophic downward spiral in enrollment and funding, caused terrific turmoil in the Football program and caused the termination of faculty and staff on the academic side, well, of course, she gets a job at UM just by asking for it.

While laying off staff who loyally supported UM, during a period of massive, self-inflicted budget cuts for which she was a major contributing cause, Engstrom found money for her.

It would not surprise me to see Krakauer announced for the next "President's Lecture Series."

 

[UMGriz75]

Practitioners of "Narrative Journalism," such as Sabrina Erdely deserve much more scrutiny. So does Florio. Unfortunately, unlike the Erdely fiasco which was investigated and condemned by a reputable Journalism School faculty, Florio was, instead, hired by a formerly reputable J-School faculty to teach students how it's done!

In the wake of Rolling Stone's refusal to fire the author behind its now-retracted and now infamous University of Virginia gang-rape story, one has to wonder if this is a rare mistake or a pattern of behavior.

There are some big hints that it is the latter.

Sabrina Rubin Erdely, the author in question, actually has a history of writing articles based solely on one person's account, with no indication that she even tried to corroborate the story or hear any other potential side.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/has-the-rolling-stone-gang-rape-author-ever-corroborated-a-story/article/2562711?custom_click=rss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mollie Hemmingway at the Federalist also notes that Erdely's past stories all sound too good to be true and include many unverifiable facts. In one story alone, Erdely's source claimed to be a prostitute mother with a business degree whose father was killed by the mob and is also a devout Catholic. Also, her marriage to a wealthy man sounds suspiciously like an alternate script for "Pretty Woman." There's no indication in the story that Erdely tried to corroborate any of the information her source gave.

Every story Erdely writes begins the same way — with a story about her main source's experience written as if Erdely witnessed it herself. From there the article only seeks to bolster the source's account — all with a credulity that lends itself more to fiction writing than journalism.

As noted here in the past, Florio's "coverage" always included "too good to be true" quotes from her friends in the "feminist" community, none of whom were ever identified as to why they might have any "expert" opinions attributed to them. But, their "spontaneous comments" fit the narrative so perfectly as to raise questions as to how Florio put together her "news" stories. Indeed, they were not just tailored to specifically fit the "Narrrative" of each story, any opinions or statistical information to the contrary were inevitably missing from the "coverage" -- coverage designed solely to bolster Florio's storyline.

Perhaps her "investigative reporter skills" were so dulled by her agenda, Florio could never find a contrary opinion or one of the many published facts that suggested her "Narrative" was simply not true.

Is Gwen Florio Missoula's Sabrina Erdely?

 

[UMGriz75]

That could become reality, CV Griz Fan, if publicized to the BOR, Governor, legislative leaders, television, radio, and newspaper outlets across the state were made aware of the decision, and reasons behind it. It could, ultimately, bring the whole house of cards down. What say you, 75?

Well, a few years ago, when I realized I was mortal, I realized I had to start reconfiguring everything for retirement. It turned out I was a lot better off than I thought I was. It was Dennison's last year and I had very positive feelings about the direction of the University at that time. I also realized my kids were doing just fine and weren't going to need anything from me, so I began to think in terms of how to configure three or four large gifts or bequests to UM, generally thinking in terms of departments I had been affiliated with at one point or another; bequests large enough to do some good somehow, perhaps even a sport club or two. The J-School happened to be just one of the four.

But, seeing the quality of leadership at UM deteriorate so significantly, I'm no longer confident that UM has the quality of leadership to effectively use such bequests. Hiring Florio, who did as much as any single individual to damage UM, and to hire her when good people were being laid off, simply presents an insurmountable obstacle to positive thoughts about the direction UM can take under a completely tone-deaf Royce Engstrom.

 

[Umista]

75, I am with you concerning donations. We give substantial amounts to the U each year. We pointed our donations toward the athletic department and like you our children are in financially good shape. One year we gave North of $200,000. One of us sits on various UM foundations etc. We do visit with Royce and others on occasion and I tell him and other U personel how I feel. So our esteemed president is very much aware of our thoughts and opinions. He does know my thoughts concerning our enrollement decline. I do hide on Egriz as my identity would hurt our businesses and it gives me a place to blow...
Mary, Engstroms wife, is a very stand up person and we like her very much. In my mind Royce is in over his head. I think he is a nice guy but like many nice guys they are not up to the task.

 

[TxGriz]

The plot thickens . . .

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/08/h...icials-involvement-in-the-rolling-stone-hoax/

 

[statler & waldorf]

75, I am with you concerning donations.....So our esteemed president is very much aware of our thoughts and opinions. He does know my thoughts concerning our enrollement decline. I do hide on Egriz as my identity would hurt our businesses and it gives me a place to blow...quote]

Anonymity enables one to tell the truth. If RE is aware of our thoughts and opinions he doesn't care, will take your money and abuse You with it. Florio is just the latest example. As Long as RE runs the show, nothing will change. Perhaps a change in tactics is in order.

 

[ranco]

The plot thickens . . .

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/08/h...icials-involvement-in-the-rolling-stone-hoax/

Pretty damning article. Erdely is nothing more than a fictional author. I wonder how Rolling Stone will ever believe any of its future reporting will be taking seriously, when it refuses to fire
her.

 

[UMGriz75]

http://thefederalist.com/2015/04/09/to-lie-about-rape-is-to-enable-evil/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Every young woman or man who survives rape should feel comfortable communicating with the appropriate legal authorities, including the campus authorities. Survivors alone should determine whether they want to speak out publicly.

Rolling Stone is complicit in more than bad journalism. Rolling Stone is complicit in silencing survivors. Erdely will continue to write for the magazine. The fact-checkers who denied Drew and Phi Kappa Psi a chance to tell their side of the story will all keep their jobs. The editor and publisher are standing by their staff. No consequences, just a bad review from Columbia School of Journalism. They enabled unverified allegations to catch fire, without regard for impact on Jackie, or survivors.
...
Rolling Stone, by not verifying facts, despite their considerable resources, perpetrated a grave injustice against survivors, silencing them and robbing them of their voice. This story damaged the reputations of young men and a university. Men and women are survivors of sexual violence.

To lie about rape is to enable evil. There is no polite way around that fact. It’s not the job of survivors to package rape into a neat media package for liberals and conservatives to eviscerate each other with.

There is much to think about there. Florio very much chose to promote a "meme" and obtained "perfect" convenient "quotes" from her friends to promote that meme. She was going to ride that story to an award of some sort, and Sherry Devlin was more than willing to provide the horse.

An assortment of politically-motivated persons became involved, a nurse who just happened to know the name of a Florida law firm specializing in lawsuits against Universities, an associate dean who provided a flophouse for "troubled female students," an opportunistic newspaper reporter, an editor who bought in. A University President saw his opportunity to prove his "PC credentials." A Department of Justice saw "the perfect" case to attack "White, male, privilege." A Dean of Students held a mock trial so thoroughly designed to obtain the desired outcome that it shocked even the conscience of a liberal Federal Judge when he reviewed it.

And no, none of it was about a series of violent rapes and sexual assaults committed one weekend by a wealthy Muslim student who was allowed to "just go home." The problem with the known violent rapes was that the "Narrative" was not designed around that. Actual, verified, violent rapes weren't the point, bizarrely, if committed in a "multicultural" context, not at all; a privileged white fraternity, or a white, Christian, quarterback -- THOSE are what the "narrative" is designed to attack.

Indeed, it was "all about" a highly questionable occurrence that did not, at the end, even rise to the level of "he said, she said." The Jury made the decision based on what "she said." That was enough. There was no "case." There never was. She knew it, and a week before the trial, wanted out. But, too many reputations were at stake at that point. It wasn't about "her." It never was. The case lasted three weeks, but was over in the first 45 minutes.

What there was was precisely a Rolling Stone-style tragedy, enabled in precisely the same way and precisely for the same reasons, designed to promote agendas, narratives, reputations and obtain coveted major awards, and left behind in their wake two tragedies, two victims, and no apologies.

 

[NativeGriz]

Well said Griz 75!!! That very much lines up with what I have heard. That sad thing is the girl was a victim of Floria and the media almost as much as JJ.

 

[PlayerRep]

http://thefederalist.com/2015/04/09/to-lie-about-rape-is-to-enable-evil/

Every young woman or man who survives rape should feel comfortable communicating with the appropriate legal authorities, including the campus authorities. Survivors alone should determine whether they want to speak out publicly.

Rolling Stone is complicit in more than bad journalism. Rolling Stone is complicit in silencing survivors. Erdely will continue to write for the magazine. The fact-checkers who denied Drew and Phi Kappa Psi a chance to tell their side of the story will all keep their jobs. The editor and publisher are standing by their staff. No consequences, just a bad review from Columbia School of Journalism. They enabled unverified allegations to catch fire, without regard for impact on Jackie, or survivors.
...
Rolling Stone, by not verifying facts, despite their considerable resources, perpetrated a grave injustice against survivors, silencing them and robbing them of their voice. This story damaged the reputations of young men and a university. Men and women are survivors of sexual violence.

To lie about rape is to enable evil. There is no polite way around that fact. It’s not the job of survivors to package rape into a neat media package for liberals and conservatives to eviscerate each other with.

There is much to think about there. Florio very much chose to promote a "meme" and obtained "perfect" convenient "quotes" from her friends to promote that meme. She was going to ride that story to an award of some sort, and Sherry Devlin was more than willing to provide the horse.

An assortment of politically-motivated persons became involved, a nurse who just happened to know the name of a Florida law firm specializing in lawsuits against Universities, an associate dean who provided a flophouse for "troubled" students, an opportunistic newspaper reporter, an editor who bought in. A University President saw his opportunity to prove his "PC credentials." A Department of Justice saw "the perfect" case to attack "White, male, privilege." A Dean of Students held a mock trial so thoroughly designed to obtain the desired outcome that it shocked even the conscience of a liberal Federal Judge when he reviewed it.

And no, none of it was about a series of violent rapes and sexual assaults committed one weekend by a wealthy Muslim student who was allowed to "just go home." The problem with the known violent rapes was that the "Narrative" was not designed around that. Actual, verified, violent rapes weren't the point, bizarrely, if committed in a "multicultural" context, not at all; a privileged white fraternity, or a white, Christian, quarterback -- THOSE are what the "narrative" is designed to attack.

Indeed, it was "all about" a highly questionable occurrence that did not, at the end, even rise to the level of "he said, she said." The Jury made the decision based on what "she said." That was enough. There was no "case." There never was. She knew it, and a week before the trial, wanted out. But, too many reputations were at stake at that point. It wasn't about "her." It never was. The case lasted a week, but was over in the first 45 minutes.

What there was was precisely a Rolling Stone-style tragedy, enabled in precisely the same way and precisely for the same reasons, designed to promote reputations and obtain coveted major awards, and left behind in their wake two tragedies, two victims, and no apologies.

Small point. The trial lasted just under 3 weeks, from Feb. 11 to March 1. There may have been a couple days when they didn't have trial, or mornings off or something like that.