ABC Nightline and Krakhore

[Willie]

Boy it must be nice to live in that house of his and spew garbage out 24/7. I'd formally like to trade him occupations, and retire immediately.

 

[cclarkblues]

I apologize if this is a re-run and has been addressed already but the Griz and the U are getting barbecued on Nightline. Krakhore is front and center.

I would have watched it if I knew it was on. I am sure the U of M will have something to comeback at this idiot.

I think that is wistful thinking. I'm betting the U does little or nothing in the defense of the folks that are being slimed. It's all about the agenda, not about the facts. Engstrom folded with no pressure before and I doubt he has grown any balls to defend the school or any part thereof now. It was a perfect storm, it fit into the liberal meme of every woman in college gets raped a dozen times, and it will continue to grow because it is a cause and the facts haven't mattered since the Missoulian started reporting it.

I agree, CClark. UM and Engstrom won't do anything other than say they have made good improvements and are doing well/better now. in fact, Engstrom/UM have already taken that approach this week.

PR, as I recall you were hopful at the outset when we heard of this book that it would be a fair and factual presentation of what had happened in the rape cases. That would have made a terrific book but it would not have played well with the audience the author seeks to draw. It's a shame, really.

I doubt also that Engstrom's tepid statement will be heard by most. He certainly hasn't done a good job of standing up like a man and touting the great things about the University and the town. I don't know whether the major outlets touting the book have even used Engstrom's statement. I hope I'm wrong because it seems like the platform is presently occupied by the author and his chosen theme. I have a feeling we will just have to wait until it all blows over, which it will eventually.

 

[CFallsGriz]

Thanks for the thorough report, CDA. I might take advantage of the 0% financing on a Jetta.

Hah...be careful, it's not actually 0% when it's all said and done.

Love our TDI though...

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Not at the Missoulian. Way too fact oriented, droll and with no agenda. He won't even get an interview.

Oh, then you haven't been paying attention...

Humor and sarcasm are not agendas, they are essential soul foods for carbon-based life forms.

 

[statler & waldorf]

Humor and sarcasm are not agendas, they are essential soul foods for carbon-based life forms.

Humor and sarcasm are not translated well in this electronic form, unfortunately. Think of Stephen Hawking trying to tell a joke.

 

[bgbigdog]

Humor and sarcasm are not agendas, they are essential soul foods for carbon-based life forms.

Humor and sarcasm are not translated well in this electronic form, unfortunately. Think of Stephen Hawking trying to tell a joke.

Think of him wanting to be a Bond Villian. Never mind.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

I just flipped on the TV in a motel and it was on. I needed one of Larry the cable guy's Prilosecs after I saw Krakhore sensationalistic furvor.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Allison Huguet recounts the Donaldson rape. They play the confession tape. Back to Kelsey who says she took 8-11 shots of 99 proof and came to with the four exposed dudes around her. Had a BAC of 3 times the legal limit. Says the cops made her feel like it was her fault.

Host says rape crisis at UM. Kelsey says she was so drunk that she doesn't remember what was going on. After investigation, there was no probable cause. Case closed. Krakauer uncovers that Kelsey said she thought the players thought it was consensual. They get into the definition of capacity to give consent. They say drunk doesn't make one incapacitated to give consent. Krakauer says "horseshit." Charges not filed.

The double standard is nearly impossible to discuss. Drunk men driving? The penalties get harsher with each passing Legislative session. It's their fault not just regardless of their impaired judgment, it is their fault because of their impaired judgment which they voluntarily assumed when they drank too much for which there exists no legal excuse, you know, like their best friend just died or their wife just left them.

Drunk women having sex? Krakauer uncovered her remarks that she "thought the players thought it was consensual." Well, good for him. He ought to have talked to her former roommate who was "in attendance," but didn't. The problem here is that not only are men responsible for being drunk, as "Men" they are also "responsible" for women being drunk, and placed into the position of having the moral and legal responsibility for evaluating the medical and legal ability of the laughing, gleeful participant to be laughing and gleeful and consenting.

Get the message?

Men are strong and must exercise care and restraint and protective guardianship with their presumed superior knowledge of state of mind, medical condition and legal cognition. That is the gender role and responsibility of men.

Women are weak, unpredictable, exercise poor judgment, and need to be protected from the results of their own voluntary actions. That is fast becoming a legal standard as the definition of the presumed status of women.

This is becoming so Medieval as to be preposterous.

None of this applies, of course, to wealthy Muslims committing violent rapes. That's different.

/EndThread

UMGriz75:
I have loved your exposes' on this whole affair. Your jousting with GG has been epic. But you're trying to harken back to an era that is long gone and your frustrations are showing IMO. That is your real issue with this whole affair. Quit hiding behind the legal/ fair reporting angle. College is not the same as when you and I attended. Heck, 21 year old women aren't the same.... 30 or 40 years ago when women college students got drunk and made horrible decisions, they tried to bury it, hide it and moved on hoping everything was forgotten. They were embarrassed. Everything was on them, fear of pregnancy, STDs and a bad reputation.
Guys had it easier. Woman self policed much of their bad behavior out of necessity and they certainly weren't going to broadcast after the fact any details of their escapades. I don't buy that the author is trying to hold men to a different standard when it comes to dealing with drunk females. It's just the world we live in now....it was easier to bury things before. With technology, instantaneous communication etc. Everyone has to walk tighter line now....Neither male nor female can afford to put themselves in these precarious positions without expecting ramifications.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Allison Huguet recounts the Donaldson rape. They play the confession tape. Back to Kelsey who says she took 8-11 shots of 99 proof and came to with the four exposed dudes around her. Had a BAC of 3 times the legal limit. Says the cops made her feel like it was her fault.

Host says rape crisis at UM. Kelsey says she was so drunk that she doesn't remember what was going on. After investigation, there was no probable cause. Case closed. Krakauer uncovers that Kelsey said she thought the players thought it was consensual. They get into the definition of capacity to give consent. They say drunk doesn't make one incapacitated to give consent. Krakauer says "horseshit." Charges not filed.

The double standard is nearly impossible to discuss. Drunk men driving? The penalties get harsher with each passing Legislative session. It's their fault not just regardless of their impaired judgment, it is their fault because of their impaired judgment which they voluntarily assumed when they drank too much for which there exists no legal excuse, you know, like their best friend just died or their wife just left them.

Drunk women having sex? Krakauer uncovered her remarks that she "thought the players thought it was consensual." Well, good for him. He ought to have talked to her former roommate who was "in attendance," but didn't. The problem here is that not only are men responsible for being drunk, as "Men" they are also "responsible" for women being drunk, and placed into the position of having the moral and legal responsibility for evaluating the medical and legal ability of the laughing, gleeful participant to be laughing and gleeful and consenting.

Get the message?

Men are strong and must exercise care and restraint and protective guardianship with their presumed superior knowledge of state of mind, medical condition and legal cognition. That is the gender role and responsibility of men.

Women are weak, unpredictable, exercise poor judgment, and need to be protected from the results of their own voluntary actions. That is fast becoming a legal standard as the definition of the presumed status of women.

This is becoming so Medieval as to be preposterous.

None of this applies, of course, to wealthy Muslims committing violent rapes. That's different.

/EndThread

UMGriz75:
I have loved your exposes' on this whole affair. Your jousting with GG has been epic. But you're trying to harken back to an era that is long gone and your frustrations are showing IMO. That is your real issue with this whole affair. Quit hiding behind the legal/ fair reporting angle. College is not the same as when you and I attended. Heck, 21 year old women aren't the same.... 30 or 40 years ago when women college students got drunk and made horrible decisions, they tried to bury it, hide it and moved on hoping everything was forgotten. They were embarrassed. Everything was on them, fear of pregnancy, STDs and a bad reputation.
Guys had it easier. Woman self policed much of their bad behavior out of necessity and they certainly weren't going to broadcast after the fact any details of their escapades. I don't buy that the author is trying to hold men to a different standard when it comes to dealing with drunk females. It's just the world we live in now....it was easier to bury things before. With technology, instantaneous communication etc. Everyone has to walk tighter line now....Neither male nor female can afford to put themselves in these precarious positions without expecting ramifications.

CV, you really hit on something that is very real and true in today's society. Dating in general is more complicated for both males and females these days. I know young guys who have been threatened by women they are dating of having charges filed if a guy breaks up with a girl. Even if the charges are false, they are made to get even and to tarnish a guy's reputation. Granted, I know this only happens a small minority of the time, unfortunately, it makes things even more difficult for law enforcement and legal authorities.

I really don't know if there is an ideal or better system to deal with sex related charges, crimes, incidents, etc. It goes to show better values and morals have to be emphasized even more in today's society than ever before. That goes for each sex.

 

[Tailbone]

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/04/24/columbia-student-accused-of-rape-by-mattress-girl-sues-university-for-gender-bias/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As reported last year by the New York Post, Sulkowicz waited eight months to report the alleged rape and admitted the event she claims was rape transpired after she had consensual sex with the student on two occasions.

The rest of the story:

She decided she had been raped when she saw him with another woman 5 months after they were last out together.