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A perspective on what happened.

M

m616s6e

Well-known member
http://mus.edu/board/meetings/2012/Mar2012cc/BOR3-1-2,2012MinutesFINAL.pdf

If you read the minutes of the last Board of Regents meeting (above), the writing was on the wall. There was no sympathy for the situation the athletic department found itself in. I believe that the Board of Regents (who hire and fire President Engstrom) were fed up with this nonsense.

Then you add to the plot the recent Board of Regents appointment of former Congressman Pat Williams, who has been quite outspoken about the campus sexual assault issues -
“I think that the women both on and off campus have noticed that one word doesn’t seem to be used by anyone in authority, and that is the word ‘women.’ We heard about ‘students.’ This is about women being abused and we might understand it better if we used the word ‘women’ or ‘woman,’ ” Williams said. “This is a problem of us guys.”

Isn't it rather obvious that the Board of Regents had given President Engstrom the word that this situation either changes or he loses his job?

Jim O'Day has been saying for months that if things didn't improve, he would be gone.

The Jordan Johnson issue was the last straw - and then only suspending him from practice briefly was fuel for the fire.

This is a chicken and egg issue: Did the coaches encourage this type of behavior by dealing with the players too leniently in situation after situation? Or did the players realize that there were no severe consequences of their behavior and as a result they cost their Coach and AD their jobs?

Either way, I assume that job #1 is now to hire an AD. There will be plenty of candidates who will apply knowing that they have strict orders to take no prisoners next time an athlete screws up. I also assume that Jean Gee (who at least has the appearance of being part of the problem) will be a candidate but not a serious candidate.

UM should be able to get an AD hired in the next 3 months or so. Then we can begin the orderly process of having a new coach in place when the season ends.

In the meantime, any athlete who screws up will most certainly be down the road - which is where Jordan Johnson should head if there is any truth to the allegations. If the allegations are totally false, he should do the right thing and stay.

And, for those of us who want to really know what happened or we will stop contributing our bucks to the GSA - we have had our little temper tantrum time. Of course, the legal beagles at the Board of Regents have instructed Engstrom to never comment on the reasons for the "nonrenewal of contracts." Only an idiot would want UM to go down that road.

So, we reap what we sow and we move forwards. All things considered, this is a "teachable moment" and we will all learn from this. We can only hope that two nice guys are able to move on with their careers. If the football players haven't learned, they will provide the new AD with excellent examples for those who are left on the team.
 
President Engstrom was invited to comment and he noted that the process followed in the recent sexual assault incident at UM resulted in some misconceptions in the community. He noted that the UM administration has worked around the clock on the recent incident, in collaboration with students and Commissioners Stearns and Christian, and he stated UM’s priorities as these: (1) the safety of the campus; (2) the removal of perpetrators; and (3) communications with the community. He had a specific message relative to the incident. He emphasized that the campus “did not sit on information about a rapist.” He said that, on the date the rape was reported to campus authorities, the campus took several steps: (1) it interviewed the victim and advised her strongly to report the incident to law enforcement; (2) it put out a Clery Act Notice (warning of potential danger) to the campus community and the police; and (3) it notified city police. He noted that these actions may not have been completed in perfect order, but he indicated the difficulties of serving a Clery Act Notice and he indicated pride in
how the campus responded, which he stated was appropriate.
Click to expand...
Sounds like Engstrom is trying to challenge the version of events that claims he let the foreigner get out of town prior to reporting the rape.
 
m616s6e said:
http://mus.edu/board/meetings/2012/Mar2012cc/BOR3-1-2,2012MinutesFINAL.pdf

If you read the minutes of the last Board of Regents meeting (above), the writing was on the wall. There was no sympathy for the situation the athletic department found itself in. I believe that the Board of Regents (who hire and fire President Engstrom) were fed up with this nonsense.

Then you add to the plot the recent Board of Regents appointment of former Congressman Pat Williams, who has been quite outspoken about the campus sexual assault issues -
“I think that the women both on and off campus have noticed that one word doesn’t seem to be used by anyone in authority, and that is the word ‘women.’ We heard about ‘students.’ This is about women being abused and we might understand it better if we used the word ‘women’ or ‘woman,’ ” Williams said. “This is a problem of us guys.”

Isn't it rather obvious that the Board of Regents had given President Engstrom the word that this situation either changes or he loses his job?

Jim O'Day has been saying for months that if things didn't improve, he would be gone.

The Jordan Johnson issue was the last straw - and then only suspending him from practice briefly was fuel for the fire.

This is a chicken and egg issue: Did the coaches encourage this type of behavior by dealing with the players too leniently in situation after situation? Or did the players realize that there were no severe consequences of their behavior and as a result they cost their Coach and AD their jobs?

Either way, I assume that job #1 is now to hire an AD. There will be plenty of candidates who will apply knowing that they have strict orders to take no prisoners next time an athlete screws up. I also assume that Jean Gee (who at least has the appearance of being part of the problem) will be a candidate but not a serious candidate.

UM should be able to get an AD hired in the next 3 months or so. Then we can begin the orderly process of having a new coach in place when the season ends.

In the meantime, any athlete who screws up will most certainly be down the road - which is where Jordan Johnson should head if there is any truth to the allegations. If the allegations are totally false, he should do the right thing and stay.

And, for those of us who want to really know what happened or we will stop contributing our bucks to the GSA - we have had our little temper tantrum time. Of course, the legal beagles at the Board of Regents have instructed Engstrom to never comment on the reasons for the "nonrenewal of contracts." Only an idiot would want UM to go down that road.

So, we reap what we sow and we move forwards. All things considered, this is a "teachable moment" and we will all learn from this. We can only hope that two nice guys are able to move on with their careers. If the football players haven't learned, they will provide the new AD with excellent examples for those who are left on the team.
Click to expand...

Jordan Johnson was punished in accordance with their newly created guidelines for athlete code of conduct. Now you want to bitch about that too? Why create a code of conduct if people like you want to ignore it and lynch these kids before any charges are even brought?

Why would you want JJ to stay when he is already a RAPIST in your book and was the "Last Straw"? JJ will always have the IM A ACCUSED RAPIST sign hanging on his back while he is in Missoula. Being charged and found guilty is irrelevant you damn well know it.

Engstrom is as guilty of the supposed crimes you seem to want to hang Oday and Pflu out for. But its more fun to let the men under you take the heat than be a true leader and accept your own failings.
 
Tokyogriz said:
[......Engstrom is as guilty of the supposed crimes you seem to want to hang Oday and Pflu out for. But its more fun to let the men under you take the heat than be a true leader and accept your own failings.
Click to expand...

One HUGE difference - Engstrom took action early and kept things moving from the " independent investigation" to the present. The athletic department on the other hand a spent couple of hours questioning the team as to "did they do it" before a playoff game which to my to my math skills breaks down to less tham 2 minutes per player not counting potty breaks unless of course they asked someone to fess up (or drop the nickle on another in front of the group) before the biggest game of the year. Followed up by a rather public pronouncement of the great character of one of the accused (poor timing at best)

But the die was cast before the JJ event and Engstrom had his marching orders.....
 
Tokyogriz said:
m616s6e said:
http://mus.edu/board/meetings/2012/Mar2012cc/BOR3-1-2,2012MinutesFINAL.pdf

If you read the minutes of the last Board of Regents meeting (above), the writing was on the wall. There was no sympathy for the situation the athletic department found itself in. I believe that the Board of Regents (who hire and fire President Engstrom) were fed up with this nonsense.

Then you add to the plot the recent Board of Regents appointment of former Congressman Pat Williams, who has been quite outspoken about the campus sexual assault issues -
“I think that the women both on and off campus have noticed that one word doesn’t seem to be used by anyone in authority, and that is the word ‘women.’ We heard about ‘students.’ This is about women being abused and we might understand it better if we used the word ‘women’ or ‘woman,’ ” Williams said. “This is a problem of us guys.”

Isn't it rather obvious that the Board of Regents had given President Engstrom the word that this situation either changes or he loses his job?

Jim O'Day has been saying for months that if things didn't improve, he would be gone.

The Jordan Johnson issue was the last straw - and then only suspending him from practice briefly was fuel for the fire.

This is a chicken and egg issue: Did the coaches encourage this type of behavior by dealing with the players too leniently in situation after situation? Or did the players realize that there were no severe consequences of their behavior and as a result they cost their Coach and AD their jobs?

Either way, I assume that job #1 is now to hire an AD. There will be plenty of candidates who will apply knowing that they have strict orders to take no prisoners next time an athlete screws up. I also assume that Jean Gee (who at least has the appearance of being part of the problem) will be a candidate but not a serious candidate.

UM should be able to get an AD hired in the next 3 months or so. Then we can begin the orderly process of having a new coach in place when the season ends.

In the meantime, any athlete who screws up will most certainly be down the road - which is where Jordan Johnson should head if there is any truth to the allegations. If the allegations are totally false, he should do the right thing and stay.

And, for those of us who want to really know what happened or we will stop contributing our bucks to the GSA - we have had our little temper tantrum time. Of course, the legal beagles at the Board of Regents have instructed Engstrom to never comment on the reasons for the "nonrenewal of contracts." Only an idiot would want UM to go down that road.

So, we reap what we sow and we move forwards. All things considered, this is a "teachable moment" and we will all learn from this. We can only hope that two nice guys are able to move on with their careers. If the football players haven't learned, they will provide the new AD with excellent examples for those who are left on the team.
Click to expand...

Jordan Johnson was punished in accordance with their newly created guidelines for athlete code of conduct. Now you want to bitch about that too? Why create a code of conduct if people like you want to ignore it and lynch these kids before any charges are even brought?

Why would you want JJ to stay when he is already a RAPIST in your book and was the "Last Straw"? JJ will always have the IM A ACCUSED RAPIST sign hanging on his back while he is in Missoula. Being charged and found guilty is irrelevant you damn well know it.

Engstrom is as guilty of the supposed crimes you seem to want to hang Oday and Pflu out for. But its more fun to let the men under you take the heat than be a true leader and accept your own failings.
Click to expand...

How MANY times do you have to keep repeating yourself over and over and over again? WE get what you are trying to say bro.. Get over IT!!
 
AZGrizFan said:
President Engstrom was invited to comment and he noted that the process followed in the recent sexual assault incident at UM resulted in some misconceptions in the community. He noted that the UM administration has worked around the clock on the recent incident, in collaboration with students and Commissioners Stearns and Christian, and he stated UM’s priorities as these: (1) the safety of the campus; (2) the removal of perpetrators; and (3) communications with the community. He had a specific message relative to the incident. He emphasized that the campus “did not sit on information about a rapist.” He said that, on the date the rape was reported to campus authorities, the campus took several steps: (1) it interviewed the victim and advised her strongly to report the incident to law enforcement; (2) it put out a Clery Act Notice (warning of potential danger) to the campus community and the police; and (3) it notified city police. He noted that these actions may not have been completed in perfect order, but he indicated the difficulties of serving a Clery Act Notice and he indicated pride in
how the campus responded, which he stated was appropriate.
Click to expand...
Sounds like Engstrom is trying to challenge the version of events that claims he let the foreigner get out of town prior to reporting the rape.
Click to expand...

One thing I find incredibly ironic about many on this board is that they crucify Florio for her articles and reporting on this issue as it pertains to Griz athletics, but then turn around and take her writing on all other aspects as gospel truth and are ready to Fire Engstrom based on her account of what transpired...seems kind of odd, doesn't it?

Carry on...
 
Those BOR comments are pretty pedestrian. They acknowledge it will take time to through all this and pretty much agree to a lone timeline in doing so. The president explains away some hotseat stuff about the schools delayed reporting of sexual assaults (he says there weren't delays. Others not represented at the meeting have said there were delays).
I guess I don't get the sense that the BOR is fed up or unsympathetic. BOR rarely gets upset about anything. I've known several BORs over the last 30 years, I really can't recall the board ever threatening to fire a president or issuing ultimatums . They're a part time board and part time boards defer to their executive, who in this case seems pretty sympathetic.

The only heat toward athletics comes from Pat Williams concerning the academic center.
 
"The only heat toward athletics comes from Pat Williams concerning the academic center."



well, take that with a grain of salt, Williams is a certified moron.
 
ranco said:
"The only heat toward athletics comes from Pat Williams concerning the academic center."



well, take that with a grain of salt, Williams is a certified moron.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comment Conrad.
 
grzz said:
AZGrizFan said:
President Engstrom was invited to comment and he noted that the process followed in the recent sexual assault incident at UM resulted in some misconceptions in the community. He noted that the UM administration has worked around the clock on the recent incident, in collaboration with students and Commissioners Stearns and Christian, and he stated UM’s priorities as these: (1) the safety of the campus; (2) the removal of perpetrators; and (3) communications with the community. He had a specific message relative to the incident. He emphasized that the campus “did not sit on information about a rapist.” He said that, on the date the rape was reported to campus authorities, the campus took several steps: (1) it interviewed the victim and advised her strongly to report the incident to law enforcement; (2) it put out a Clery Act Notice (warning of potential danger) to the campus community and the police; and (3) it notified city police. He noted that these actions may not have been completed in perfect order, but he indicated the difficulties of serving a Clery Act Notice and he indicated pride in
how the campus responded, which he stated was appropriate.
Click to expand...
Sounds like Engstrom is trying to challenge the version of events that claims he let the foreigner get out of town prior to reporting the rape.
Click to expand...

One thing I find incredibly ironic about many on this board is that they crucify Florio for her articles and reporting on this issue as it pertains to Griz athletics, but then turn around and take her writing on all other aspects as gospel truth and are ready to Fire Engstrom based on her account of what transpired...seems kind of odd, doesn't it?

Carry on...
Click to expand...

Guess it depends on one's agenda, no? Hey, Tokyo, he's talking about YOU here....

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
actually Fritz has been writing most the articles on this fiasco, the Oday/Pflu firings in the Missoulian.
 
Tokyogriz said:
actually Fritz has been writing most the articles on this fiasco, the Oday/Pflu firings in the Missoulian.
Click to expand...

you missed the part (apparently) where at the bottom they add who "contributed" to the story. :?
 
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