3 Griz Arrested

[cameo]

After reading all of the posts from UMGriz75 and PR, I find it hard to believe either one is actually an attorney. I think they both slept through the criminal process portion of their law school. Since PR thinks that 75 is the sharpest attorney posting on egriz, all other attorneys that are thinking of posting now know where you stand. I do agree with several posters re the charging of Courtney Reep. That one was badly mishandled. She may have entered the structure, but minimal investigation would have showing what probably happened. Officers have discression in almost all situations, and if the investigation showed more involvement on her part than was initially suspected she could always be charged later.

 

[LongTimeCatFan]

There was no disparity of force in the Kaarma case.

:?:
We "think" differently.

Let me word that better. There was disparity of force, just not on the part of the defense.

Kaarma could not use disparity of force as part of his defense.

Oh and I agree that we "think" differently. I understand the law of self defense better than you OR PR for that matter.

Can't believe you were a judge.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

So, in sum:

Some people broke a law. It wasn't a super serious law to break, but they broke it. In that process, they scared some people, and that sucks. They've admitted that they broke the law, and seem to feel pretty bad about scaring the people. It doesn't seem like they intended to scare the people or enter an occupied residence. That said, they should face some punishment, the severity of which none of us have control.

What did I miss?

I said this about page seven. Misdemeanor Guilty plea, fine, deferred imposition of sentence, eventual dismissal.

ALTHOUGH, as I have also said, back in the days when the police actually did their jobs, this would have been resolved on the spot, the homeowner satisfied that the students did not intend harm, and the students assured that this was a close call, that "trespassing" actually is a crime, and "don't do it again." Lesson would have been learned, and the social justice vultures would have lost an opportunity to call for ultimate penalties simply because they were student athletes, for what used to be the lessons of life for young people growing into adults.

Exactly. I am struggling trying to decide if this is police being over sensitized to the actions of Griz athletes or if it is a case of an overzealous police force determined to reel in the Griz athletes?

 

[UMGriz75]

In all seriousness, someone should do a little research on any connection between Missoula police officers and the local bail bondsmen.....dudes just got f***[*] rich off some college kids for no reason, except apparent cop exuberance and overcharging.

Well, stranger things have happened, and they have happened in Missoula. A well-known and well-liked Municipal Court Judge was forced, finally, to retire because he wasn't extracting enough money from the poor people appearing before him. A compassionate man, he was hounded out of office because he was not ruthless enough in collecting fines and imposing them at maximum rates allowed.

Literally, the Mayor's office saw City Court as a revenue source, and found a compliant lawyer who promised to "produce revenue" for the City, and then ran her for the office. Justice is no longer "blind," she is required to extract money, millions of dollars, from the poor people appearing in her court. That is her function in Missoula.

The bail bondsmen and the officers all know each other very well. The bondsmen contribute generously to court and sheriff campaigns. Is $25,000 cash for a single incident's bail an incentive to corruption? Multiplied many times over? You bet it is. Inherently. That's how free money works when someone else can make it for you by exercising "official discretion" over a weekend.

There was no evidence here from the get-go that a "burglary" as defined by statute was an appropriate charge. None. The fact that someone made $25,000 in free money from the charging this as a felony is inherently suspect. It should be. It has to be.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

So, in sum:

Some people broke a law. It wasn't a super serious law to break, but they broke it. In that process, they scared some people, and that sucks. They've admitted that they broke the law, and seem to feel pretty bad about scaring the people. It doesn't seem like they intended to scare the people or enter an occupied residence. That said, they should face some punishment, the severity of which none of us have control.

What did I miss?

You know some of you guys are so f***[*] biased it's ridiculous. Saying it wasn't super serious. Well if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night it serious to me and they are probably going to be shot over it. Maybe if that was your family you would feel differently about four big dudes breaking into your house in the middle of the night but most Montanan's I know would have shot them. And rightfully so. Once they stole beer from the garage it was apparent someone lived there yet they choose not to leave. They are damn lucky that this was pled down or something worse did not happen. If I was the coach I would still boot all three from the team. It's a privilege to be a Griz and we need players who make better decisions than that.

Not necessarily. There are construction sites all over that have beer and alcohol present that does not belong to the owner of the property. I was in the construction supply business for over 25 years and I know of a number of crews that would not talk to you unless you had a cold pack to leave with them.

 

[UMGriz75]

Not necessarily. There are construction sites all over that have beer and alcohol present that does not belong to the owner of the property.

The owner was quoted directly by the Kaimin as stating that nothing of his was stolen.

 

[UMGriz75]

There was no disparity of force in the Kaarma case.

Let me word that better. There was disparity of force, just not on the part of the defense.

OK. :roll:

Oh and I agree that we "think" differently.

That's a certainty.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

I guess I assumed the elements of the crime were met by virtue of the guilty plea.

I've described in some detail why the guilty plea is appropriate. One reason, however, is not appropriate. This has already cost them, likely, in excess of $7500 each with bail costs and attorney retainers. These are students. They don't have that kind of money, but this is a system that coerces those results precisely because university students do not have the financial resources of the charging State.

If you don't want to be out of bail money you have the choice to sit in jail for a couple of days and see if the judge will release at arraignment. That is the choice a defendant has to make. If u don't like it don't get arrested. Right or wrong early freedom comes at a cost, that is the way of the system.

"If you don't like it, don't get arrested?" HAHAHAHAHAHA!

"If you don't like it, don't get overcharged by the Missoula PD." Nice theory.

Note one key fact: none of the felony charges stood up. By Monday morning, the County Attorney knew she had a problem with what had been charged. There was no basis for them in the first place. If someone held you against your will for several days, demanding a high ransom, what would you call it? Oh, that's right, "a choice!"

Recall, "bail" also represents the monetary estimate of the likelihood of leaving the jurisdiction. Did it make any sense for any of these "defendants?"

Question, what would the bail be for misdemeanor trespass versus felony burglary? In light of all that has happened does the arrested party have cause to seek damages for the differences?

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Not necessarily. There are construction sites all over that have beer and alcohol present that does not belong to the owner of the property.

The owner was quoted directly by the Kaimin as stating that nothing of his was stolen.

I missed that. Thank you.

 

[UMGriz75]

If the homeowner went out to confront them and one of the dudes made a move that made the man feel like his life was in jeopardy, he could have used lethal force legally due to the disparity of force. There was no disparity of force in the Kaarma case.

This situation and the Kaarma situation have very little in common other than both originate with criminal trespass.

The State argued, in the Kaarma case, that leaving the garage door open at night was an "invitation" and "entrapment" that by leaving his premises open to the public, he was creating a scenario likely to invite trespass by ignorant young people out on a lark.

Kaarma argued that when he went outside, he could not see into the garage, knew that someone was in there, and was afraid that the intruder, who was clearly "on the premises," was armed, and that he felt threatened in particular because of repeated intrusions and that the intruder knew that Kaarma was standing there.

The motive -- "stealing beer" -- was not a defense to murder, neither was the fact that the intruder was on the premises, inside a structure, in the dark, admittedly committing at least one crime. The State's argument -- that leaving the premises open to the public at night was an "invitation" -- offers a problematic argument, to get a conviction in that case.

 

[Umista]

Griz Fans, at some point we will start talking about football again.

One thing taking up plenty of space on this "arrested" topic is the bashing of one another. I don't get the impolite slobs attacking others with nasty talk on E-Griz? In every face to face discussion about Griz football (drunk or sober) I've never noticed the high volume of nasty vulgar disagreement as shown on this thread. Knowing the local bums sleeping under the bridge in Missoula don't have a way to get in this fray I am simply amazed by us humans slaming one another with such vile gutter below the belt threats etc.

Further, one of the best gutter snipes around is in jail and unfortunately for him he can't get in this "thing"....I am refering to Growler/Atlanta et al. Plus ol Alpha (in exile) must be laughing his ass off at these long winded retorts. Expect some high noon fight threats at the Mo Club anytime soon.

I understand the Trolls from other teams jumping on E-Griz and slaming all Griz items as we have beaten them down for years and this is their chance to squeel like pigs. But for true Griz fans to be dirt talking to one another without one ounce of class is troubling. All over two bit stuff like these young kids?

Meanwhile old isu is waiting south of us watching this distraction as we play like silly young kids and our minds are not on Griz football. Another chance for us to get beaten by a down under team while we watch this long winded soap play out.

If any fool read this please realize I'm trying to get the Griz up for the next game or two.

 

[NativeGriz]

I guess I assumed the elements of the crime were met by virtue of the guilty plea.

I've described in some detail why the guilty plea is appropriate. One reason, however, is not appropriate. This has already cost them, likely, in excess of $7500 each with bail costs and attorney retainers. These are students. They don't have that kind of money, but this is a system that coerces those results precisely because university students do not have the financial resources of the charging State.[/quote

If you don't want to be out of bail money you have the choice to sit in jail for a couple of days and see if the judge will release at arraignment. That is the choice a defendant has to make. If u don't like it don't get arrested. Right or wrong early freedom comes at a cost, that is the way of the system.

That's actually a really good point, Maxim.

75's point is right on - it should have never been at this level. Had this happened in Bozo, the charge would have been a misdemeanor to begin with and the over all fees under $1000. Nobody is saying the kids don't deserve punishment, but this is was way over the top thanks to our wonderful overcharging police dept. http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...cle_d4dc352b-4cf8-5371-8399-9d9ca572a8fc.html

 

[UMGriz75]

Griz Fans, at some point we will start talking about football again.

One thing taking up plenty of space on this "arrested" topic is the bashing of one another. I don't get the impolite slobs attacking others with nasty talk on E-Griz? In every face to face discussion about Griz football (drunk or sober) I've never noticed the high volume of nasty vulgar disagreement as shown on this thread. Knowing the local bums sleeping under the bridge in Missoula don't have a way to get in this fray I am simply amazed by us humans slaming one another with such vile gutter below the belt threats etc.

Re-read the first seven pages, and the conclusions reached, the punishments demanded, the expulsions predicted, the personal attacks on UM athletes ... before a single news article had been published that described what had happened.

 

[NativeGriz]

Is this a record yet for one category in regard to number of posts/views? Especially without a sticky

 

[statler & waldorf]

Further, one of the best gutter snipes around is in jail and unfortunately for him he can't get in this "thing"....I am refering to Growler/Atlanta et al.

You just said he was "in jail." Now, I believe you were using a metaphor, but growler may think LIBEL. He comes back Saturday afternoon, about game time(aboat for us bilingual Canadian speakers). He might just drop you a PM.

 

[Silvertip]

With the DOJ looking over their shoulder, Missoula county's zero tolerance policy with UM athletes is really more like zero intelligence. The whole matter couldn't have been handled more poorly if they had tried...

 

[AZGrizFan]

With the DOJ looking over their shoulder, Missoula county's zero tolerance policy with UM athletes is really more like zero intelligence. The whole matter couldn't have been handled more poorly if they had tried...

Does anybody really think that "the DOJ [is] looking over their shoulder"?

 

[poorgriz]

[Oh, was one of the players drowning in the rain?

Don't know, but what I am saying is that stupidity is a poor basis for applying the "letter" of a law, without recognizing the "purpose" of a law.

And when the adult stupidity occurs on the side of those wanting to apply the law, in conjunction with the youthful stupidity of those violating "the law," the results can never be good.

And here we are.

75, thanks. I agree. Stupidity is a poor basis for applying anything, let alone law.

But are you ACTUALLY suggesting these seniors in college were too stupid to know they were violating the law? Because if that's your belief, I fully respect it, while fearing desperately for our future.

I don't consider people walking into a construction site, including myself, or walking through my yard or grabbing a peach or pear from my fruit trees, to be breaking the law. I don't consider my kids' friends who sneak into our garage looking for beer to be breaking the law.

Had I seen these 3 guys in my yard or garage, I would have walked out and introduced myself.

Well of course you would have. Once you realized they played for the griz, you would have invited them in, cooked them breakfast, and asked them to spend the night. Had they been some bums coming off the streets however, and not football players, you would have kicked their asses off the property. I think if you did deep and really think about this, there is quite a bit of truth to it and it might cause you to re think your stance on UM athletics.

 

[poorgriz]

Don't know, but what I am saying is that stupidity is a poor basis for applying the "letter" of a law, without recognizing the "purpose" of a law.

And when the adult stupidity occurs on the side of those wanting to apply the law, in conjunction with the youthful stupidity of those violating "the law," the results can never be good.

And here we are.

75, thanks. I agree. Stupidity is a poor basis for applying anything, let alone law.

But are you ACTUALLY suggesting these seniors in college were too stupid to know they were violating the law? Because if that's your belief, I fully respect it, while fearing desperately for our future.

I don't consider people walking into a construction site, including myself, or walking through my yard or grabbing a peach or pear from my fruit trees, to be breaking the law. I don't consider my kids' friends who sneak into our garage looking for beer to be breaking the law.

Had I seen these 3 guys in my yard or garage, I would have walked out and introduced myself.

Well of course you would have. Once you realized they played for the griz, you would have invited them in, cooked them breakfast, and asked them to spend the night. Had they been some bums coming off the streets however, and not football players, you would have kicked their asses off the property. I think if you dig deep and really think about this, there is quite a bit of truth to it and it might cause you to re think your stance on UM athletics.

 

[84GRIZ]

UMGriz75 I have a stupid question. Based on the homeowners comments in the Kiamin it appeared that he thought this was not that big of a deal after the fact. Would this whole thing have gone away if he decided not to press any charges? Or once the cops hauled the kids in were we past that point???? And no I am not blaming the homeowner, just wondering if this could have come to a much more reasonable solution for everyone.

Seems to me that the cop completely blew this thing up and that Pabst had to come up with something. Also, it is a complete joke that they charged the girl based on all the evidence that they had via the text messages and her complete lack of any "intent".