2023 pre Spring Camp discussion #1 - The offense

[mthoopsfan]

Honest question, not a critique: Was the issue last year...

• we didn't have anyone who could get open downfield? or

• our play calling didn't include enough deep routes? or

• our OL didn't give enough time for those routes to develop? or

• we didn't have a QB who could get the ball to receivers when they were open on deep routes?

I think it's a combo of 1 and 3. I think Lucas threw a nice deep ball, but didn't have targets because the Griz just didn't have a receiver the skills to get adequate separation. I'm not sure they were open deep that often.

Separation was a problem on shorter routes as well...

The team needs that receiver to keep the opposing team safeties out of the box...who will it be?

I agree with the above post and the no. 1 reason. The o-line often protected well. Plus, Johnson threw well on the run most of the time. I thought our receivers were the weakest position group last year.

 

[BWahlberg]

Honest question, not a critique: Was the issue last year...

• we didn't have anyone who could get open downfield? or

• our play calling didn't include enough deep routes? or

• our OL didn't give enough time for those routes to develop? or

• we didn't have a QB who could get the ball to receivers when they were open on deep routes?

I think it's a combo of 1 and 3. I think Lucas threw a nice deep ball, but didn't have targets because the Griz just didn't have a receiver the skills to get adequate separation. I'm not sure they were open deep that often.

Separation was a problem on shorter routes as well...

The team needs that receiver to keep the opposing team safeties out of the box...who will it be?

On the receiver side of things I'd possibly add in that there's an ongoing belief by some that younger players unless if they're exceptional talent need time to develop in their role. So, as an example, if an Aaron Fontes is a good deep threat, but a sophomore that hasn't shown as much ability to also run block... then you sit him until he's needed or he rounds out more of his game. The 2022 Griz had 1 deep threat they wanted to continually put on the field and that was Flowers. I think White and Fontes could be those guys this year, not sure about the big sophomore class if there's some sleepers in there.

I also think of late there's been somewhat of a disconnect with our QBs and the WRs/TEs. I don't know if it's the offense is too complex, if the QBs have just not been seeing the field well enough, or if the WRs/TEs have been making the wrong post snap reads with coverage. Or hell... maybe it was a combo of all of it. A little too often in QB Club we saw some post-game film that showed open targets, missed big plays, and breakdowns. Shit like that happens a lot across college football, but I think this played some sort hand in things in both 2021 and 2022. Bobby used to joke that Dalton Sneed wasn't the brightest of QBs but was the offense simplified for his sake - because if so that simplified offense from 2019 should be something Montana should get back to, for the most part it worked pretty well.

 

[Bok_Choi]

Honest question, not a critique: Was the issue last year...

• we didn't have anyone who could get open downfield? or

• our play calling didn't include enough deep routes? or

• our OL didn't give enough time for those routes to develop? or

• we didn't have a QB who could get the ball to receivers when they were open on deep routes?

I think it's a combo of 1 and 3. I think Lucas threw a nice deep ball, but didn't have targets because the Griz just didn't have a receiver the skills to get adequate separation. I'm not sure they were open deep that often.

Separation was a problem on shorter routes as well...

The team needs that receiver to keep the opposing team safeties out of the box...who will it be?

Getting separation was an issue for most all the receivers, regardless. Comebacks were almost the only open pitch and catch situations and that was mostly Roberts. Watch the film closely, even the burners were blanketed much of the time. Some of that is strategy & tactics, route combinations, some of it is route running, some experience with the QB and how to adjust the route when needed. There were far more contested catches than you’d like. That part held down yards after the catch as well. And there aren’t going to be receivers running wide open on every play - but you’d hope they’re building themselves enough separation for window to be available to throw into.

 

[PhxGriz]

Bergen
Grossman
Gillman
Harris

Those guys need the majority of the touches.

if they can’t figure out a way to get Bergen and Grossman 10 touches a game combined they’re doing something wrong.

I love it. But I am going to add Fontes to the list. He is our best WR not named Bergen.

Not knocking Bergen, but I never viewed him as our top receiver. I don't know jack about evaluating receivers, so that could easily be why I am misinformed.

To summarize what I'm trying to say about Bergen is when you see a Madden rating on a player. I see our WR's as getting scores around 90, and that's it, while I see Bergen get a rating of 87 in EVERYTHING (WR, KR, PR, RB). Guy can do it all and is one of my favorite players.

 

[Ringneck]

Honest question, not a critique: Was the issue last year...

• we didn't have anyone who could get open downfield? or

• our play calling didn't include enough deep routes? or

• our OL didn't give enough time for those routes to develop? or

• we didn't have a QB who could get the ball to receivers when they were open on deep routes?

I think it's a combo of 1 and 3. I think Lucas threw a nice deep ball, but didn't have targets because the Griz just didn't have a receiver the skills to get adequate separation. I'm not sure they were open deep that often.

Separation was a problem on shorter routes as well...

The team needs that receiver to keep the opposing team safeties out of the box...who will it be?

That's a good point, and it lends evidence toward option #1 being the most likely problem. Like mthoopsfan noted in his response, I was also really underwhelmed by our receivers last year. Outside of Flowers and Bergen (both of whom rarely got the ball), I just never really trusted that any of them had the sort of "big play" potential that keeps opposing secondaries panicking.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I think it's a combo of 1 and 3. I think Lucas threw a nice deep ball, but didn't have targets because the Griz just didn't have a receiver the skills to get adequate separation. I'm not sure they were open deep that often.

Separation was a problem on shorter routes as well...

The team needs that receiver to keep the opposing team safeties out of the box...who will it be?

I agree with the above post and the no. 1 reason. The o-line often protected well. Plus, Johnson threw well on the run most of the time. I thought our receivers were the weakest position group last year.

I think Johnson actually threw BETTER on the run…sadly him being gimpy limited that facet of his game as well.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I love it. But I am going to add Fontes to the list. He is our best WR not named Bergen.

Not knocking Bergen, but I never viewed him as our top receiver. I don't know jack about evaluating receivers, so that could easily be why I am misinformed.

To summarize what I'm trying to say about Bergen is when you see a Madden rating on a player. I see our WR's as getting scores around 90, and that's it, while I see Bergen get a rating of 87 in EVERYTHING (WR, KR, PR, RB). Guy can do it all and is one of my favorite players.

I'd say Griz receivers get an 85 and Bergen gets an 87...yes, good all over the place and therefore needs to get many more touches next season.

 

[PhxGriz]

Not knocking Bergen, but I never viewed him as our top receiver. I don't know jack about evaluating receivers, so that could easily be why I am misinformed.

To summarize what I'm trying to say about Bergen is when you see a Madden rating on a player. I see our WR's as getting scores around 90, and that's it, while I see Bergen get a rating of 87 in EVERYTHING (WR, KR, PR, RB). Guy can do it all and is one of my favorite players.

I'd say Griz receivers get an 85 and Bergen gets an 87...yes, good all over the place and therefore needs to get many more touches next season.

I could see that. As stated, I'm no judge of talent and really try to stay away from anything that could be construed as negative, when talking about the players.

 

[WaGriz4life]

Honest question, not a critique: Was the issue last year...

• we didn't have anyone who could get open downfield? or

• our play calling didn't include enough deep routes? or

• our OL didn't give enough time for those routes to develop? or

• we didn't have a QB who could get the ball to receivers when they were open on deep routes?

I think it's a combo of 1 and 3. I think Lucas threw a nice deep ball, but didn't have targets because the Griz just didn't have a receiver the skills to get adequate separation. I'm not sure they were open deep that often.

Separation was a problem on shorter routes as well...

The team needs that receiver to keep the opposing team safeties out of the box...who will it be?

Fontes is easily the fastest player on the team and has the best chance to become that guy. IMO

 

[GrizMania]

This is my big hope at receiver. Hope his knee is recovering well. UW transfer who got hurt during spring ball a year ago.

"H.S. Scouting Report

One of the most versatile players in the country. Can play receiver, running back, quarterback, linebacker or safety. Record-setting receiver, won't blow you away with speed, but will consistently get behind the secondary and he has short area burst that wins him 1on1's. Can overpower cornerbacks, run past linebackers and his body control and hands get the ball in his hands every play. Strength coming off the line of scrimmage makes him a difficult cover. Three-sport star. Projects as immediate Power 5 contributor and projects as a third-day pick in the NFL draft.

Athletic Background
Sawyer Racanelli is a 6-3, 205-pound Wide Receiver / Linebacker from Brush Prairie, WA."

One of my player friends told me to watch for this guy. Said he's going to be the real deal.

 

[uofmman1122]

This is my big hope at receiver. Hope his knee is recovering well. UW transfer who got hurt during spring ball a year ago.

"H.S. Scouting Report

One of the most versatile players in the country. Can play receiver, running back, quarterback, linebacker or safety. Record-setting receiver, won't blow you away with speed, but will consistently get behind the secondary and he has short area burst that wins him 1on1's. Can overpower cornerbacks, run past linebackers and his body control and hands get the ball in his hands every play. Strength coming off the line of scrimmage makes him a difficult cover. Three-sport star. Projects as immediate Power 5 contributor and projects as a third-day pick in the NFL draft.

Athletic Background
Sawyer Racanelli is a 6-3, 205-pound Wide Receiver / Linebacker from Brush Prairie, WA."

One of my player friends told me to watch for this guy. Said he's going to be the real deal.

Same, I heard nothing but good things before he unfortunately got hurt. Hopefully he can come back and be 100%. He's an extremely good athlete.

 

[Kobezoey]

This certainly should happen, and probably will. They had a pretty routine rotation in games last year didn't they?

This year IMO there needs to be a better balance of consistency vs "fresh legs". Seemed to me that up until Knight left the team there was almost a forced attempt to balance out touches, regardless who was running well vs who wasn't. If Ostmo is the hot hand, feed that man - worked for us once that realization hit last year.

I agree with this assessment. RB is a position where guys can simply find their grove with more reps, and as the game progresses things start to open up for them. They did trade the guys (Knight, Ostmo, Harris) in and out way too much last year. I think it hurt them individually a little bit and may have hurt the team somewhat. I think with Knight coming off the big injury, it was only logical that he was coming back to form with each game. You could see it, in fact. Once we hit some light opponents with the Cal Poly and Eastern games, we saw a lot of carries to a couple guys (Ostmo, Childs) and off they went. Granted Cal Poly and Eastern seemed to have packed it up for the year, but it was still fun to watch. Would have loved to have seen more of Knight last year and it is sad that he is no longer with the team. Having said that, they have many guys now that should be able to carry the load collectively. It will be cool if one of them can jump up as a lead back like Knight was. More fun to watch, when an RB becomes a featured position with a particular outstanding player. . ..IMO.

 

[Griziron]

Tight End

#81 Matt Rensvold - RS Sr
#84 Joey Elwell - Sr
#11 Cole Grossman - RS Jr
#88 Erik Barker - Jr
#87 Jake Olson - RS Soph
#89 Peyton Brammer - RS Soph
#85 Micah Ashton - RS Soph
#86 Joe Weida - RS Frosh

Much like my comments on Bergen, in this group Grossman needs far more focus, that kind of goes without saying. Beyond that though, the TE position of late hasn't been the most the deed, it's been relied upon a lot more for blocking, "decoy", and ST work. Will that change with Phen as the position coach and with Pease at OC now? Who else from this group of guys could become threats in the passing game?

Rensvold is no longer on the roster on gogriz.com.

 

[Griz2k]

Which of the receivers on the roster will emerge as they guy who can take the top off a defense? Seems that was a problem last year.

Honest question, not a critique: Was the issue last year...

• we didn't have anyone who could get open downfield? or

• our play calling didn't include enough deep routes? or

• our OL didn't give enough time for those routes to develop? or

• we didn't have a QB who could get the ball to receivers when they were open on deep routes?

Yes.

 

[grizfan1984]

Rensvold and Elwell both gone might need a transfer

 

[uptopgriz]

Which of the receivers on the roster will emerge as they guy who can take the top off a defense? Seems that was a problem last year.

Honest question, not a critique: Was the issue last year...

• we didn't have anyone who could get open downfield? or

• our play calling didn't include enough deep routes? or

• our OL didn't give enough time for those routes to develop? or

• we didn't have a QB who could get the ball to receivers when they were open on deep routes?

The offensive coordinator and qb coach being fired tells where BH believed the problem laid.

 

[thirdandlong]

I examined the last 100 posts. 71% of them were made by only 7 posters. Sad. Any wonder why advertisers are dropping their ads on this site?

 

[mtgrizrule]

I examined the last 100 posts. 71% of them were made by only 7 posters. Sad. Any wonder why advertisers are dropping their ads on this site?

Unfortunately, many good posters left or no longer post.
I know, I post a lot less. A few idiots ruined the experience for many here. The name calling, disrespect, thread derailing, passing contests, etc, has ruined this site.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I examined the last 100 posts. 71% of them were made by only 7 posters. Sad. Any wonder why advertisers are dropping their ads on this site?

Advertisers pay on the basis of clicks and views, not posts.

 

[Alaska Griz]

I examined the last 100 posts. 71% of them were made by only 7 posters. Sad. Any wonder why advertisers are dropping their ads on this site?

I'm sure you'll do your part to bump those numbers. Welcome back!