2015 qb: gus, simis, or weyer?

[Raider]

I don't put a lot of stock in Billings West quarterbacks.

That’s an interesting observation.

The last two West High quarterbacks to play here were Selle/Edwards.

Selle was a massive overachiever in college (related to his raw ability), and lead the nation in pass efficiency during his Junior year. He is also the last QB to play for a NC here.

Edwards was the last one to win a NC, so nuff said there.

 

[AZGrizFan]

All depends on who the OC is and what the system is. If it's the same setup Gustafson might have the inside track. Strong arm, tall in the pocket but tough to bring down easily. Overall mobility isn't as good as Simis but it's good.

For Simis the one interesting thing is that as a true frosh he looked much further ahead of what I recall from the year before when Gustafson was a true freshman. That might not equate to much though...

I still wouldn't rule out McKinney though, if he can continually improve his accuracy he might be the guy in 2015.

I would think McKinney's chances are zero as well. I just don't see it happening.

I feel really, really bad for the kid. I think he could have really helped the team last year as a RB when Van went down....he's got the same kind of elusiveness...

 

[NLGrizFan]

I don't put a lot of stock in Billings West quarterbacks.

That’s an interesting observation.

The last two West High quarterbacks to play here were Selle/Edwards.

Selle was a massive overachiever in college (related to his raw ability), and lead the nation in pass efficiency during his Junior year. He is also the last QB to play for a NC here.

Edwards was the last one to win a NC, so nuff said there.

Good point...

 

[griz4life]

I don't put a lot of stock in Billings West quarterbacks.

That’s an interesting observation.

The last two West High quarterbacks to play here were Selle/Edwards.

Selle was a massive overachiever in college (related to his raw ability), and lead the nation in pass efficiency during his Junior year. He is also the last QB to play for a NC here.

Edwards was the last one to win a NC, so nuff said there.

I don't think the success of either of the teams that took Edwards or Selle to the national championship hinged on outstanding quarterback performance. They were great game managers in offenses that minimized risk; pass efficiency guys usually are.

 

[grizfan95]

I don't put a lot of stock in Billings West quarterbacks. They usually have great prep numbers that don't necessarily translate into similar college stats. I only say this because we really haven't seen a heck of a lot of Brady the past couple years and most of what we know about him is based on his size and performance as a prep, which was great.
Montana needs to get some reps for one of these guys this year, but the schedule might be a little tough to stick some backup in the game in the third or fourth quarter. Not to mention that pro-style offenses tend to produce close outcomes ---nothing wrong with that -- which might make it difficult to hand the game over to a backup at any point.

You do realize Andrew Selle had one of the highest QB ratings his Jr year, correct?

And that he was 27/35 for 351 yards and 3 TDs in the championship?

 

[Raider]

I don't put a lot of stock in Billings West quarterbacks.

That’s an interesting observation.

The last two West High quarterbacks to play here were Selle/Edwards.

Selle was a massive overachiever in college (related to his raw ability), and lead the nation in pass efficiency during his Junior year. He is also the last QB to play for a NC here.

Edwards was the last one to win a NC, so nuff said there.

I don't think the success of either of the teams that took Edwards or Selle to the national championship hinged on outstanding quarterback performance. They were great game managers in offenses that minimized risk; pass efficiency guys usually are.

I understand the canned response is to call them “game managers”, especially Edwards. He’s carried that label since he played here.

Selle threw for 3,100 yards/28 touchdowns his junior year. Senior year was cut short of course. Edwards threw for 3,200 yards/22 touchdowns his senior year, and was the BSC Offensive MVP. Not exactly “game manager” type of stuff.

I understand the point your original post, I just find the West High QB reference a little ironic considering the factual history.

 

[getgrizzy]

is there a montana high school that has produced more good q.b.s? bartik, muri, keller, schwartzhopf, gus, selle, edwards, shahan. maybe c.m.r. with dave, leaf, west, bleskin, leister, arnston.

 

[krammer]

I don't put a lot of stock in Billings West quarterbacks.

That’s an interesting observation.

The last two West High quarterbacks to play here were Selle/Edwards.

Selle was a massive overachiever in college (related to his raw ability), and lead the nation in pass efficiency during his Junior year. He is also the last QB to play for a NC here.

Edwards was the last one to win a NC, so nuff said there.

I don't think the success of either of the teams that took Edwards or Selle to the national championship hinged on outstanding quarterback performance. They were great game managers in offenses that minimized risk; pass efficiency guys usually are.

I understand the canned response is to call them “game managers”, especially Edwards. He’s carried that label since he played here.

Selle threw for 3,100 yards/28 touchdowns his junior year. Senior year was cut short of course. Edwards threw for 3,200 yards/22 touchdowns his senior year, and was the BSC Offensive MVP. Not exactly “game manager” type of stuff.

I understand the point your original post, I just find the West High QB reference a little ironic considering the factual history.

to say west high does not put out better than average qbs in selle and Edwards is a STRETCH....the proof is there ....what has me exited about gus (still unproven of course) is that he broke just about every record at west high...also he is bigger, better athlete than selle or Edwards and has a cannon for an arm....I am old enough to have watched all play their high school careers and it isn't close as to who has the most natural ability,,,,now, can he lead etc....that's to be seen over the course of time......this is all a great problem to have, in my view, when we have such good players at the qb position, because I know gus was very good...if one of the other guys is better, then we are better for it imo...we are in good hands a the qb position for several years to come...go griz.............

 

[griz4life]

That’s an interesting observation.

The last two West High quarterbacks to play here were Selle/Edwards.

Selle was a massive overachiever in college (related to his raw ability), and lead the nation in pass efficiency during his Junior year. He is also the last QB to play for a NC here.

Edwards was the last one to win a NC, so nuff said there.

I don't think the success of either of the teams that took Edwards or Selle to the national championship hinged on outstanding quarterback performance. They were great game managers in offenses that minimized risk; pass efficiency guys usually are.

I understand the canned response is to call them “game managers”, especially Edwards. He’s carried that label since he played here.

Selle threw for 3,100 yards/28 touchdowns his junior year. Senior year was cut short of course. Edwards threw for 3,200 yards/22 touchdowns his senior year, and was the BSC Offensive MVP. Not exactly “game manager” type of stuff.

I understand the point your original post, I just find the West High QB reference a little ironic considering the factual history.

to say west high does not put out better than average qbs in selle and Edwards is a STRETCH....the proof is there ....what has me exited about gus (still unproven of course) is that he broke just about every record at west high...also he is bigger, better athlete than selle or Edwards and has a cannon for an arm....I am old enough to have watched all play their high school careers and it isn't close as to who has the most natural ability,,,,now, can he lead etc....that's to be seen over the course of time......this is all a great problem to have, in my view, when we have such good players at the qb position, because I know gus was very good...if one of the other guys is better, then we are better for it imo...we are in good hands a the qb position for several years to come...go griz.............

Who said West doesn't put out better than average quarterbacks?

 

[Fahque]

I don't put a lot of stock in Billings West quarterbacks.

That’s an interesting observation.

The last two West High quarterbacks to play here were Selle/Edwards.

Selle was a massive overachiever in college (related to his raw ability), and lead the nation in pass efficiency during his Junior year. He is also the last QB to play for a NC here.

Edwards was the last one to win a NC, so nuff said there.

I don't think the success of either of the teams that took Edwards or Selle to the national championship hinged on outstanding quarterback performance. They were great game managers in offenses that minimized risk; pass efficiency guys usually are.

I understand the canned response is to call them “game managers”, especially Edwards. He’s carried that label since he played here.

Selle threw for 3,100 yards/28 touchdowns his junior year. Senior year was cut short of course. Edwards threw for 3,200 yards/22 touchdowns his senior year, and was the BSC Offensive MVP. Not exactly “game manager” type of stuff.

I understand the point your original post, I just find the West High QB reference a little ironic considering the factual history.

Edwards > Miller during their years here.

 

[grizatheart]

Makena Simis will the the next QB after JJ.

 

[Rockmeister]

Makena Simis will the the next QB after JJ.

:thumb:

 

[Potomac Griz]

Edwards > Miller during their years here.

Just curious, how was Edwards a better QB than Miller?

Miller is in the NCAA record books several times as one of the best QBs in FCS history. If you look at QB efficiency rating his career efficiency rating is only 5.8 points behind DD and gets him #5 in FCS history for that rating.

#1 in FCS in Efficiency Rating in 1999. 240-368 (65.2%), 3,461yds, 32tds, 8ints, 168.6 rating.
#5 in FCS history for Career Efficiency. 430-654 (65.7%), 5,900yds, 46tds, 14ints, 160.5 rating
#6 in FCS history for Career Yards per game with 327.8 per game. (Ahead oF DD)
#22 in FCS history for Season yards per game with 346.1 in 1999.

If I remember right Edwards was usually hovering around the 125-135 QB rating level, under 60% completion percentages, not the most amazing TD to INT ratio and with Bradon Neill (the backup) actually having a far better rating. Not even close to on the same level as Drew Miller in my opinion...Keep in mind I'm not saying Edwards wasn't a good QB.

In the year where there was some odd QB controversy (where people in our section actually cheered when Miller got hurt since it meant Edwards was coming in) even with Miller being banged up it still wasn't even close.

2000 Edwards:
8 games, 76-140 (54.29%), 1004yds, 9tds, 4ints. (130.03 efficiency rating)

2000 Miller:
8 games, 190-286 (66.43%), 2439yds, 14tds, 6ints (150.03 efficiency rating)

Never really understood why some people thought Edwards was a far superior QB to Miller, so I'm curious to hear your opinion.

 

[CrunchGriz]

John Edwards did a great job for the Griz, and helped them to a title, but I think the facts bear out that Drew Miller was the better QB.

The only thing John had over Drew was his running ability. He saved several drives, including the key one in the championship game, with his legs. Drew was just about carved in stone in the pocket, and suffered for it with injuries caused by sacks.

On balance, though, Drew was more deadly as a QB. On the whole, he threw the prettiest, most accurate (equal to DD) passes ever seen in WGS. Not that he didn't have some great receivers to throw to--Farris, Watkins, Hancock, Molden, Frederick, etc.--but, still, he put it in the right spot repeatedly.

 

[griz4life]

John Edwards did a great job for the Griz, and helped them to a title, but I think the facts bear out that Drew Miller was the better QB.

The only thing John had over Drew was his running ability. He saved several drives, including the key one in the championship game, with his legs. Drew was just about carved in stone in the pocket, and suffered for it with injuries caused by sacks.

On balance, though, Drew was more deadly as a QB. On the whole, he threw the prettiest, most accurate (equal to DD) passes ever seen in WGS. Not that he didn't have some great receivers to throw to--Farris, Watkins, Hancock, Molden, Frederick, etc.--but, still, he put it in the right spot repeatedly.

Yeah, I remember watching Jimmy Farris staring from the Chattanooga sideline at the locker room door after Miller was injured in the 2000 national championship and didn't come out after the half. Anyone who thinks the Griz preferred Edwards over Miller that day obviously wasn't there.

 

[Fahque]

Edwards > Miller during their years here.

Just curious, how was Edwards a better QB than Miller?

Miller is in the NCAA record books several times as one of the best QBs in FCS history. If you look at QB efficiency rating his career efficiency rating is only 5.8 points behind DD and gets him #5 in FCS history for that rating.

#1 in FCS in Efficiency Rating in 1999. 240-368 (65.2%), 3,461yds, 32tds, 8ints, 168.6 rating.
#5 in FCS history for Career Efficiency. 430-654 (65.7%), 5,900yds, 46tds, 14ints, 160.5 rating
#6 in FCS history for Career Yards per game with 327.8 per game. (Ahead oF DD)
#22 in FCS history for Season yards per game with 346.1 in 1999.

If I remember right Edwards was usually hovering around the 125-135 QB rating level, under 60% completion percentages, not the most amazing TD to INT ratio and with Bradon Neill (the backup) actually having a far better rating. Not even close to on the same level as Drew Miller in my opinion...Keep in mind I'm not saying Edwards wasn't a good QB.

In the year where there was some odd QB controversy (where people in our section actually cheered when Miller got hurt since it meant Edwards was coming in) even with Miller being banged up it still wasn't even close.

2000 Edwards:
8 games, 76-140 (54.29%), 1004yds, 9tds, 4ints. (130.03 efficiency rating)

2000 Miller:
8 games, 190-286 (66.43%), 2439yds, 14tds, 6ints (150.03 efficiency rating)

Never really understood why some people thought Edwards was a far superior QB to Miller, so I'm curious to hear your opinion.

I didn't watch many of the games in 1999 so my opinion is based off of the 2000 season. Yes Miller had better stats in 2000 but that is because Edwards only came in as back up for an injured Miller or to try to dig us out of a hole that Miller had put us in, including the NC game. I attended every home game in 2000 and every time Edwards came in the crowd erupted and gave him the nickname Johnny Montana (or something like that). That year I thought Edwards was the better QB and the next year he led us to the NC win...though we had a great D too. Since I missed most of the 99 season maybe Miller was better overall...but he wasn't better in 2000.

Lots of people used to call Miller Doughboy because he looked fat n slow out there and couldn't evade a sack to save his life.

 

[Fahque]

John Edwards did a great job for the Griz, and helped them to a title, but I think the facts bear out that Drew Miller was the better QB.

The only thing John had over Drew was his running ability. He saved several drives, including the key one in the championship game, with his legs. Drew was just about carved in stone in the pocket, and suffered for it with injuries caused by sacks.

On balance, though, Drew was more deadly as a QB. On the whole, he threw the prettiest, most accurate (equal to DD) passes ever seen in WGS. Not that he didn't have some great receivers to throw to--Farris, Watkins, Hancock, Molden, Frederick, etc.--but, still, he put it in the right spot repeatedly.

Yeah, I remember watching Jimmy Farris staring from the Chattanooga sideline at the locker room door after Miller was injured in the 2000 national championship and didn't come out after the half. Anyone who thinks the Griz preferred Edwards over Miller that day obviously wasn't there.

Yet it was Edwards who nearly brought us back

 

[Potomac Griz]

I didn't watch many of the games in 1999 so my opinion is based off of the 2000 season. Yes Miller had better stats in 2000 but that is because Edwards only came in as back up for an injured Miller or to try to dig us out of a hole that Miller had put us in, including the NC game. I attended every home game in 2000 and every time Edwards came in the crowd erupted and gave him the nickname Johnny Montana (or something like that). That year I thought Edwards was the better QB and the next year he led us to the NC win...though we had a great D too. Since I missed most of the 99 season maybe Miller was better overall...but he wasn't better in 2000.

Actually of the 1004 yds, 9tds and 4ints Edwards threw for in 2000, 682yds, 6tds, 3ints were when he was a starter (due to injury) not when he was coming in later in a game... so your memory is a bit foggy there I'm afraid. He was 48-96 (50%), 682yds, 6tds, 3ints (124.1 QB Efficiency Rating) as a starter in 2000.

Also, which games was Edwards brought in to "dig us out of a hole" that Miller put us in? As someone who watched every game in 2000 and was in the stadium for every home game I don't remember a single game where Miller put us in a hole resulting in Edwards coming in as our savior to dig us out of that hole. When Edwards came in it was usually due to an injury or the fact that the game was well in hand (along with an injury that game actually when Miller sat the 2nd half after we were up 28-7).

Keep in mind, I have every box score right here in front of me along with when the injuries occurred, the scores, and all that good stuff. So I'll give you a hint... the number of times that Edwards was brought in to "dig us out of a hole" that Miller put us in (not due to injury) is less than 1, but greater than -1.

Besides... if Edwards was coming in as our savior to dig us out of the hole, wouldn't that mean his stats would probably reflect that and be better?

Maybe you're thinking of when Neill used to come in for Edwards when Edwards needed a series or two on the sidelines since he wasn't doing so well?

Lots of people used to call Miller Doughboy because he looked fat n slow out there and couldn't evade a sack to save his life.

Never heard that one, but that's beyond pathetic. So was the cheering when Miller would get hurt because it meant Edwards was coming in. Amazing some Griz fans would stoop that low when it comes to an injured player who is busting his ass out there, and still putting up all American numbers. I guess some people can't see past the "born in Montana" bias bullshit or dislike of transfers. Even with the injuries he still put up far superior numbers to Edwards and helped lead the Griz to the NC game with a 13-1 record. Not too shabby.

 

[George Ferguson]

Potomac is one hundred percent right. Drew Miller didn't put the Griz in ANY holes. If anyone put the Griz in a hole in the 2000 chipper, it was Adrian Petersen and a Griz' secondary who was completely fooled on a a run/pass option that J.R. revere threw for like a 60-yard TD where there wasn't a SINGLE Griz player in the screen as the WR caught the ball and ran into the endzone. Johnny did make a valiant attempt at a comeback, but watch the third quarter of that game. His passing was awful for quite a while. Which, considering his experience and the weather was completely understandable.

Any debate over who was better or who the team preferred is just stupid. For starters, they will BOTH be elected into the Grizzly Hall of Fame someday, and secondly, they are VERY GOOD friends.

Finally, I wonder if people who knock Drew Miller in favor of Edwards are the same people who ripped Edwards in 2002 in favor of Brandon Neil. My guess would be yes.

 

[grizatwork]

Potomac is one hundred percent right. Drew Miller didn't put the Griz in ANY holes. If anyone put the Griz in a hole in the 2000 chipper, it was Adrian Petersen and a Griz' secondary who was completely fooled on a a run/pass option that J.R. revere threw for like a 60-yard TD where there wasn't a SINGLE Griz player in the screen as the WR caught the ball and ran into the endzone. Johnny did make a valiant attempt at a comeback, but watch the third quarter of that game. His passing was awful for quite a while. Which, considering his experience and the weather was completely understandable.

Any debate over who was better or who the team preferred is just stupid. For starters, they will BOTH be elected into the Grizzly Hall of Fame someday, and secondly, they are VERY GOOD friends.

Finally, I wonder if people who knock Drew Miller in favor of Edwards are the same people who ripped Edwards in 2002 in favor of Brandon Neil. My guess would be yes.

Yep. The most popular player on the team is the backup quarterback.