Age based rule to be implemented

[RP24]

Well, I have been told over and over that there will be limited space for high school recruits because there will be so many upperclassman that stick around, that incoming freshman will never see the field...so not sure why showing up early matters when they will have that entire first year to lift weights.

If you're offered a scholarship, they are offering you one of their supposed limited spots. So how many upperclassman stick around is irrelevant. But any good program has been planning for that, as the Griz have.

Regardless of that - You don't see why showing up early matters to development even if they don't see the field as a fresh? Because they are 6 or 7 months further along than if they showed up in the summer. Those months can not be made up, you don't just catch up so to speak. The player arriving early is prepared to go sooner because they are bigger, stronger, faster, and know the scheme better. FCS or FBS doesn't matter, from the programs I have been to it's expected an early enrollee puts on 15 to 30 lbs of good muscle mass before summer starts.

There is no comparison to the college program strength and conditioning and skill work the player gets from winter through spring ball, because that simply does not exist at home. You don't build during the season, you maintain, all while adjusting to college. Building happens from Jan - whatever date fall camp starts. Even the structure of practice is drastically different once the season arrives.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Well, I have been told over and over that there will be limited space for high school recruits because there will be so many upperclassman that stick around, that incoming freshman will never see the field...so not sure why showing up early matters when they will have that entire first year to lift weights.

I think incoming freshmen will increasingly be expected to be ready to see the field. Clock be tickin’ and all.

 

[RP24]

Then why did he make his initial post? I think that can still be done. Why don't you let him speak for himself. You have already proven that you have no clue or credibility on this subject.

In your post I responded to it was talking about the negative impact on high school recruits, and the first part specifically prompted my response. This is why arriving early is valuable to the athlete and the school. That "redshirt" isn't needed, and by the time the season arrives they aren't really a rookie anymore.

1. The Death of the Redshirt "Buffer"​

Under the old rules, a coach might recruit a raw high school prospect, sit them for a year to develop (a "redshirt" year), and still get four full seasons of play out of them. Under the new model, your five-year clock starts automatically at age 19 or high school graduation. Because athletes can now play all five years, coaches can keep an experienced, 22-year-old starter for an extra season instead of replacing them with an 18-year-old rookie.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think incoming freshmen will increasingly be expected to be ready to see the field. Clock be tickin’ and all.

But if freshmen only make up like, let's say 20% of the roster, will they be expected to play at an increased rate over previous?

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

If you're offered a scholarship, they are offering you one of their supposed limited spots. So how many upperclassman stick around is irrelevant. But any good program has been planning for that, as the Griz have.

Regardless of that - You don't see why showing up early matters to development even if they don't see the field as a fresh? Because they are 6 or 7 months further along than if they showed up in the summer. Those months can not be made up, you don't just catch up so to speak. The player arriving early is prepared to go sooner because they are bigger, stronger, faster, and know the scheme better. FCS or FBS doesn't matter, from the programs I have been to it's expected an early enrollee puts on 15 to 30 lbs of good muscle mass before summer starts.

There is no comparison to the college program strength and conditioning and skill work the player gets from winter through spring ball, because that simply does not exist at home. You don't build during the season, you maintain, all while adjusting to college. Building happens from Jan - whatever date fall camp starts. Even the structure of practice is drastically different once the season arrives.

What I said was the opportunities to see the field, even if showing up early, won't really change that much from before the 5 for 5 change. This change isn't going to force schools to rely on freshmen more moving forward.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

But if freshmen only make up like, let's say 20% of the roster, will they be expected to play at an increased rate over previous?

I think so, because they are there in place of someone from the portal. At least some of the freshmen that would’ve been there previously, won’t be, so there’s really no way to measure whether a hypothetical true frosh who isn’t on the roster would have been expected to play right away.

 

[Bobcat99]

Sorry, catch me up here.

Is the argument that the 5 for 5 will negatively impact HS recruiting because players stay longer? Because they aren’t going to be staying any longer than they used to. Nearly everybody at the FCS level redshirts, so they’re here for 5 years. We also didn’t see a huge drop off in HS recruiting post Covid, and those athletes got to stay for 5-6 years.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think so, because they are there in place of someone from the portal. At least some of the freshmen that would’ve been there previously, won’t be, so there’s really no way to measure whether a hypothetical true frosh who isn’t on the roster would have been expected to play right away.

So you think freshman will have increased pressure to play right away over the 75ish rostered kids that already have a year or more in a college program...

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

Sorry, catch me up here.

Is the argument that the 5 for 5 will negatively impact HS recruiting because players stay longer? Because they aren’t going to be staying any longer than they used to. Nearly everybody at the FCS level redshirts, so they’re here for 5 years. We also didn’t see a huge drop off in HS recruiting post Covid, and those athletes got to stay for 5-6 years.

I agree with your position. Others disagree vehemently.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Sorry, catch me up here.

Is the argument that the 5 for 5 will negatively impact HS recruiting because players stay longer? Because they aren’t going to be staying any longer than they used to. Nearly everybody at the FCS level redshirts, so they’re here for 5 years. We also didn’t see a huge drop off in HS recruiting post Covid, and those athletes got to stay for 5-6 years.

That is what some people belive.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

What I said was the opportunities to see the field, even if showing up early, won't really change that much from before the 5 for 5 change. This change isn't going to force schools to rely on freshmen more moving forward.

Maybe this was the topic of the last few pages that I didn’t read, but doesn’t the amended proposal start upon FT college enrollment? So, would an early January enrollee’s clock start while he’s enrolled and going to spring camp? That’s what I think I read. By year 5, the clock stops then? Maybe a CFP issue in a really isolated case, lol?

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

That is basically my position, and I think HHB's as well, others disagree vehemently.

All of a sudden the people that think there will be fewer high schools recruits think they will be expected to play sooner over all the upperclassman that will benefit with the extra year.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Maybe this was the topic of the last few pages that I didn’t read, but doesn’t the amended proposal start upon FT college enrollment? So, would an early January enrollee’s clock start while he’s enrolled and going to spring camp? That’s what I think I read. By year 5, the clock stops then? Maybe a CFP issue in a really isolated case, lol?

It begins on full-time enrollment or when age 19 is reached. So just like enrolling early, a kid can enroll late also. This new age rule will impact prep schools.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

So you think freshman will have increased pressure to play right away over the 75ish rostered kids that already have a year or more in a college program...

What I’m saying is the freshmen who are on the team (that’s the important part, the ones who are on the team) will be expected to play earlier than before (on average) when many of them redshirted. Again, system wide. Hell, one team might have all true freshmen and have them all transfer after year one and load up again on all freshmen, who knows?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

All of a sudden the people that think there will be fewer high schools recruits think they will be expected to play sooner over all the upperclassman that will benefit with the extra year.

You’re assuming the same amount of freshman opportunities in the system. It is hard for me to look beyond our team or conference as well. Honestly it took a much broader view before I could see the reduction in opportunities system wide math the way it maths.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

It begins on full-time enrollment or when age 19 is reached. So just like enrolling early, a kid can enroll late also. This new age rule will impact prep schools.

FT enrollment or 19, whichever is sooner, right? See what I’m saying about the early entrants?

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

What I’m saying is the freshmen who are on the team (that’s the important part, the ones who are on the team) will be expected to play earlier than before when many of them redshirted. Again, system wide. Hell, one team might have all true freshmen and have them all transfer after year one and load up again on all freshmen, who knows?

The freshman on the team in a given season would be the latest high school recruits. There will be no additional pressure for these kids to play right away. Schools will still be able to essential redshirt kids.

 

[Bobcat99]

What I’m saying is the freshmen who are on the team (that’s the important part, the ones who are on the team) will be expected to play earlier than before (on average) when many of them redshirted. Again, system wide. Hell, one team might have all true freshmen and have them all transfer after year one and load up again on all freshmen, who knows?

Why?

5 for 5 is essentially no different than 5 years to play 4, except for those freshman who are good enough, they can play right away.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

FT enrollment or 19, whichever is sooner, right? See what I’m saying about the early entrants?

That early entrants will be expected to play right away? I don't agree that they will be expected to play right away.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

The freshman on the team in a given season would be the latest high school recruits. There will be no additional pressure for these kids to play right away. Schools will still be able to essential redshirt kids.

1000% agree. I think the “effective RS” will be disincentivized as a whole to a degree that is greater than zero. Huge disincentive, small disincentive, remains to be seen. But the clock ticking will disincentivize it to a degree.