A new era at UM! Welcome President Shinn!

[wbtfg]

Dr. Shinn officially starts July 1, what do you think he does within first 90 days and do you think he working behind the scenes so when July 1 comes it's go time.

I would imagine he spends a lot of time getting out and introducing himself and building trust and credibility with faculty, staff, local businesses, and alumni. I'd also expect a stronger social media presence.

Behind the scenes, he really has to figure out UM's enrollment problem. He looks to have a strong background in that area....and it will be interesting to see if he makes adjustments to the existing framework, or if he just blows the whole thing up and starts from scratch.

 

[Griz til I die]

I would imagine he spends a lot of time getting out and introducing himself and building trust and credibility with faculty, staff, local businesses, and alumni. I'd also expect a stronger social media presence.

Behind the scenes, he really has to figure out UM's enrollment problem. He looks to have a strong background in that area....and it will be interesting to see if he makes adjustments to the existing framework, or if he just blows the whole thing up and starts from scratch.

I'll be interested to see that too. He won't be responsible for whatever happens with enrollment this upcoming Fall since he doesn't even start until July, but come Fall of 27, he needs to have an answer for it. One interesting thing to note is that UM's current Enrollment Director, Leslie Webb, came to UM from Boise State and once upon a time actually worked with President Shinn. So they likely know each other well. I'll be interested to see that dynamic in action and how he handles that.

I won't be surprised at all if he overhauls the President's cabinet and brings in a bunch of people from Boise State, including in Athletics. I said this when he got hired, but Boise State I believe is kind of the model child out west for a public state university. My graduation class of only 38 kids had 3 kids go to Boise State for college. They recruit well in MT and all over the west coast. I know a fair amount of kids that went there. I bet he will try to replicate the BSU model as best as he can at UM, which is a good thing.

 

[MontanaGrizSoccer]

I would imagine he spends a lot of time getting out and introducing himself and building trust and credibility with faculty, staff, local businesses, and alumni. I'd also expect a stronger social media presence.

Behind the scenes, he really has to figure out UM's enrollment problem. He looks to have a strong background in that area....and it will be interesting to see if he makes adjustments to the existing framework, or if he just blows the whole thing up and starts from scratch.

It would nice to get a engineering degree/program.

 

[MontanaGrizSoccer]

I'll be interested to see that too. He won't be responsible for whatever happens with enrollment this upcoming Fall since he doesn't even start until July, but come Fall of 27, he needs to have an answer for it. One interesting thing to note is that UM's current Enrollment Director, Leslie Webb, came to UM from Boise State and once upon a time actually worked with President Shinn. So they likely know each other well. I'll be interested to see that dynamic in action and how he handles that.

I won't be surprised at all if he overhauls the President's cabinet and brings in a bunch of people from Boise State, including in Athletics. I said this when he got hired, but Boise State I believe is kind of the model child out west for a public state university. My graduation class of only 38 kids had 3 kids go to Boise State for college. They recruit well in MT and all over the west coast. I know a fair amount of kids that went there. I bet he will try to replicate the BSU model as best as he can at UM, which is a good thing.

Totally agree on all your points, sometimes change is a good thing. BSU is the model, if you follow Dr. Shinn and BSU's AD they are both very active on SM, especially the AD (Jermiah Dickey), he goes on the local sports talk shows and answers peoples questions on Twitter once a month, they are not afraid to dream big and let everyone know about it. BSU released their master athletics plan, it's a 100 million renovation plan, they are directly calling out companies on twitter (Micron and Albertsons) to help fund it with naming rights. UM needs some of this bravado.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I'll be interested to see that too. He won't be responsible for whatever happens with enrollment this upcoming Fall since he doesn't even start until July, but come Fall of 27, he needs to have an answer for it. One interesting thing to note is that UM's current Enrollment Director, Leslie Webb, came to UM from Boise State and once upon a time actually worked with President Shinn. So they likely know each other well. I'll be interested to see that dynamic in action and how he handles that.

I won't be surprised at all if he overhauls the President's cabinet and brings in a bunch of people from Boise State, including in Athletics. I said this when he got hired, but Boise State I believe is kind of the model child out west for a public state university. My graduation class of only 38 kids had 3 kids go to Boise State for college. They recruit well in MT and all over the west coast. I know a fair amount of kids that went there. I bet he will try to replicate the BSU model as best as he can at UM, which is a good thing.

The idea that new leaders need to take time to evaluate and learn is old. It doesn't work - HUGE waste of time.

Leaders need to make required adjustments quickly. I hope he spends very little time getting out and about...building trust...

Dude is hired - he is the President. He needs to preside immediately. I hope he guts a dozen more programs in week 1 and replaces them with meaningful degree programs for the known future.

The only place he needs to build trust is with the parents of Montana HS kids...and hosting solid, future-focused degree programs is the way to do so.

 

[5280Griz]

It would nice to get an engineering degree/program.

There is an engineering program partnered with Montana Tech. First 2 years are in Missoula and the last 2 years are in Butte.

 

[argh!]

The idea that new leaders need to take time to evaluate and learn is old. It doesn't work - HUGE waste of time.

Leaders need to make required adjustments quickly. I hope he spends very little time getting out and about...building trust...

Dude is hired - he is the President. He needs to preside immediately. I hope he guts a dozen more programs in week 1 and replaces them with meaningful degree programs for the known future.

The only place he needs to build trust is with the parents of Montana HS kids...and hosting solid, future-focused degree programs is the way to do so.

you are truly clueless about how universities are run. they at least nominally follow a 'shared governance' model, with the faculty having input on decision making. if he pisses off the faculty, they are going to stall him, spend time with stuff like no-confidence votes, and at least some of them would try to 'poison the well', so to speak, by telling their students and staff he's a bad guy, etc...

also, what programs do you want him to 'gut'? and what do you want them replaced with? what info do you have about the future that grants you this knowledge? i know you want to be the arbiter of what programs um offers. can you tell everyone your qualifications for this rather grand self-assessment? i don't think 'leading young men in the military, blah blah blah' quite qualifies you.

finally, be careful what you wish for, he might 'gut' programs that are of true value, or that you think should be kept.

 

[MontanaGrizSoccer]

There is an engineering program partnered with Montana Tech. First 2 years are in Missoula and the last 2 years are in Butte.

Had no idea, maybe that's the problem, school is not doing enough to let people know.

 

[wbtfg]

One interesting thing to note is that UM's current Enrollment Director, Leslie Webb, came to UM from Boise State and once upon a time actually worked with President Shinn. So they likely know each other well. I'll be interested to see that dynamic in action and how he handles that.

This comment got me thinking about UM's org structure. I had no idea they had so many Vice Presidents and Provosts. Maybe that's standard for a school this size, but it seems really admin-heavy. For example, UM has an Admissions Director (Kelly Nolin), an enrollment chief (Drew Riley), and a VP for Enrollment (Leslie Webb). Not to mention all the assistant directors of admissions.....

Again, maybe that's standard, but sure seems like a lot of layers.

 

[Wolf777]

This comment got me thinking about UM's org structure. I had no idea they had so many Vice Presidents and Provosts. Maybe that's standard for a school this size, but it seems really admin-heavy. For example, UM has an Admissions Director (Kelly Nolin), an enrollment chief (Drew Riley), and a VP for Enrollment (Leslie Webb). Not to mention all the assistant directors of admissions.....

Again, maybe that's standard, but sure seems like a lot of layers.

Given the current enrollment, one could argue that it should be the first area to go in and evaluate on Day1

 

[MontanaGrizSoccer]

you are truly clueless about how universities are run. they at least nominally follow a 'shared governance' model, with the faculty having input on decision making. if he pisses off the faculty, they are going to stall him, spend time with stuff like no-confidence votes, and at least some of them would try to 'poison the well', so to speak, by telling their students and staff he's a bad guy, etc...

also, what programs do you want him to 'gut'? and what do you want them replaced with? what info do you have about the future grants you this knowledge? i know you want to be the arbiter of what programs um offers. can you tell everyone your qualifications for this rather grand self-assessment? i don't think 'leading young men in the military, blah blah blah' quite qualifies you.

finally, be careful what you wish for, he might 'gut' programs that are of true value, or that you think should be kept.

 

[wbtfg]

Given the current enrollment, one could argue that it should be the first area to go in and evaluate on Day1

Yeah...I think I made that argument earlier in this thread.

 

[MontanaGrizSoccer]

Yeah...I think I made that argument earlier in this thread.

salaries that could be redirected else where.

 

[SoldierGriz]

you are truly clueless about how universities are run. they at least nominally follow a 'shared governance' model, with the faculty having input on decision making. if he pisses off the faculty, they are going to stall him, spend time with stuff like no-confidence votes, and at least some of them would try to 'poison the well', so to speak, by telling their students and staff he's a bad guy, etc...

also, what programs do you want him to 'gut'? and what do you want them replaced with? what info do you have about the future that grants you this knowledge? i know you want to be the arbiter of what programs um offers. can you tell everyone your qualifications for this rather grand self-assessment? i don't think 'leading young men in the military, blah blah blah' quite qualifies you.

finally, be careful what you wish for, he might 'gut' programs that are of true value, or that you think should be kept.

I'm gonna put you back so I can catch you later.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

.....
also, what programs do you want him to 'gut'? and what do you want them replaced with? what info do you have about the future that grants you this knowledge? i know you want to be the arbiter of what programs um offers. can you tell everyone your qualifications for this rather grand self-assessment? i don't think 'leading young men in the military, blah blah blah' quite qualifies you.

finally, be careful what you wish for, he might 'gut' programs that are of true value, or that you think should be kept.

WRT "what programs to gut".... I'm not attempting to put words into Soldier's mouth, but I'm interpreting it as not making the initial mistake that Bodnar did with regards to programs on the verge of being cut.

Some scuttlebut I've heard (not clue if true or not), was that when Sheila Stearns was interim President, UM did a bunch of work identifying degrees that could be cut (i.e. this degree has graduated 3 people in 4 years, does it really need to be offered?). When Bodnar became President, instead of moving forward with that, he held off and there is still a fair bit of "degree bloat".

It wouldn't have fixed everything, but it was something that could have been done right off the bat and wasn't.

TLDR; if UM can get leaner and more precise with degree offerings, do that (or continue doing it if it has already started) since the work has already been done.

 

[uofmman1122]

Someone please explain to me how we're going to increase enrollment by cutting programs and giving students less options on what to study, especially when those same programs are alive and well at the other university in the state that we directly compete with in a zero-sum game for students (that we're losing).

"But no one is joining those programs!"

Yeah, almost like deprioritizing and cutting staff in those programs for 15 years chasing "trending" degrees that caused a net negative loss of students was a bad move.

Shinn's got his work cut out for him.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Someone please explain to me how we're going to increase enrollment by cutting programs and giving students less options on what to study, especially when those same programs are alive and well at the other university in the state that we directly compete with in a zero-sum game for students (that we're losing).

"But no one is joining those programs!"

Yeah, almost like deprioritizing and cutting staff in those programs for 15 years chasing "trending" degrees that caused a net negative loss of students was a bad move.

Shinn's got his work cut out for him.

I honestly don't know the right answer here, and will never pretend I am an expert on academic structure and enrollment.

An argument can be made, though, that cutting cost of degrees that graduate just a few students every four years could redirect that money to the recruitment budget. We heard a lot of discussion on here this year in the lack of physical materials UM sends out in comparison to other regional institutions. Perhaps there could be reason to believe that upping that budget will have an effect. To do that, cuts would have to come from somewhere.

To be clear, I don't know that would be the right thing to do, but am just responding to your request for someone to explain how cutting programs can lead to greater enrollment.

 

[uofmman1122]

I honestly don't know the right answer here, and will never pretend I am an expert on academic structure and enrollment.

An argument can be made, though, that cutting cost of degrees that graduate just a few students every four years could redirect that money to the recruitment budget. We heard a lot of discussion on here this year in the lack of physical materials UM sends out in comparison to other regional institutions. Perhaps there could be reason to believe that upping that budget will have an effect. To do that, cuts would have to come from somewhere.

To be clear, I don't know that would be the right thing to do, but am just responding to your request for someone to explain how cutting programs can lead to greater enrollment.

As wbtfg pointed out, maybe instead of cutting adjunct professors and classes in, say, the Chinese, Spanish, and German departments, we cut one of the 4 recruiting admins who seemingly haven't been doing anything except collecting a paycheck with little to no results to show for it.

I think UM has wasted a ton of money trying to "fix the problem" at the cost of the actual programs and classes that were the cornerstone of its identity for decades.

You're probably right, though, we're too far gone in this regard, and the university is going to have to completely rebrand. Those humanities students that are flooding MSU's campus aren't coming back (because their programs no longer or are soon to no longer exist lol).

Wasting millions on admins and consultants over the last 15 years has guaranteed that we're fighting an even more uphill battle today.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

As wbtfg pointed out, maybe instead of cutting adjunct professors and classes in, say, the Chinese, Spanish, and German departments, we cut one of the 4 recruiting admins who seemingly haven't been doing anything except collecting a paycheck with little to no results to show for it.

I think UM has wasted a ton of money trying to "fix the problem" at the cost of the actual programs and classes that were the cornerstone of its identity for decades.

You're probably right, though, we're too far gone in this regard, and the university is going to have to completely rebrand. Those humanities students that are flooding MSU's campus aren't coming back (because their programs no longer or are soon to no longer exist lol).

Wasting millions on admins and consultants over the last 15 years has guaranteed that we're fighting an even more uphill battle today.

I actually agree with you entirely on that point, and had some experiences with that. I completely agree that we have created too many high paying administrative positions, and as far back as 2014 I was arguing in even faculty senate meetings that it is also significantly driving up the cost of higher education to a degree that is untenable for many students.

But yes, it is quite far gone. Unfortunately, the only people with the power to make those changes are currently in, or came up through, those very jobs that I would argue create bloat at the administration level.

 

[Griz til I die]

I think it comes down to really increasing the Marketing/Recruiting budget. I have no idea what a school like MSU or a comparable size school to UM has in terms of Enrollment staff, and maybe cutting one of those 4 staffers helps with that, but if the rumors are true that Bodnar and his team placed an emphasis on email and digital campaigns, then I think that's a failed strategy on his part. I can count on one hand how many times I checked my personal email when I was in high school. Kids would rather come home from school and see the kitchen table flooded with recruiting materials rather than having all that stuff go to your junk folder.

The biggest problem that UM has and has had for decades is just storytelling. An example is I'm a high school Tennis coach and a couple of kids on my team are kind of interested in concerts and the music industry. They're interested in going to UM but they weren't sure they would go there cause they don't know what to major in. I told them about UM's new 4 year degree in Entertainment Management. Before it was just a certificate in the Business school and at the time it was the most popular certificate in the Business school because of the great pipeline of internships and full time jobs they have in the Entertainment industry. I told these two kids about EM now being offered as a Bachelors degree and you should've seen the way their eyes lit up. That night after practice they ran home and told their parents about it and started researching the program a bit. The next week they came up to me during practice and said they're now going to UM and are going to major in Entertainment Management.

All you gotta do is just tell these kids what their options are. the more they know about UM and everything we have to offer, the more likely they are to be interested in UM. It's not Rocket Science and President Shinn knows this. He comes from the Enrollment and Student Affairs area. He should be able to fix these problems in the short term.