MBBALL WISH LIST FOR THE MEN'S BB PROGRAM

[Grizbeer]

Great points. Montana only produces basketball players that will play for legit D1 teams. Let’s stop putting money or care into basketball. Every dime spent is wasted. Who cares if Montana goes 3-29? Makes no difference. Haslam already said all sports other than football are not competing for a championship, so why are we wasting money on out of state scholarships and nil when we can spend that money on football nil?

If Montana kids are not good enough to play on an Oakland laden 4th place low d1 team let’s take last and put the money into 1 sport. How could it hurt?

Any money from the ncaa tourney gets split 11 ways. Let Idaho or some random utah school waste their money to try to earn another credit.

Everyone makes the starch madness anyways.

 

[Grizbeer]

In a related rant, US players in baseball are terrible and we should drop little league and college baseball on MLB should only be made up of Dominican, Cuban, Japanese and Canadian players.

Same logic as Griz26.

 

[UMGriz26]

Montana basketball is far better than obviously some here are giving credit. Looking at your rosters from last years' championship. You listed 7 guys. We had one more kid on the bench, Tyler Thompson, who contributed this year. The rest of last year's squad is GONE. Because they were random dudes that were not good. Why wouldn't you want a bench that cultivated Montana talent.?

Of the guys you mentioned:

Joe pridgen: literally fell into the coached lap because his wife is from Kalispell. Would not have been on his radar otherwise. But he was certainly a GREAT player.

Kai Johnson: great player, had for one season.

Malik moore: one season and gone to the portal.

The rest of the roster was highly mediocre.

Look at the last ncaa winning team from 2006. 3 main contributors from Montana.

If you'd rather cycle through random dudes on the end of the bench that have zero connection or passion, rather than cultivating a culture of bringing in top Montana talent every year, congrats, because thats what you currently have.

I'd prefer having a culture of bringing in Montana studs that play their assessment off and have more sticking power and resistance to the portal. By the way, before travis, its ALWAYS been this way. Have 3-5 Montana studs and bring in out of state talent as well. Hell... Travis played with several Montana studs himself!!!

You can conveniently leave out B-Whit and countless other non-Montanans that TDC has recruited and had stay and contribute for multiple good seasons of basketball, but it doesn’t change the reality. Sorry, the Connor Dicks, Mack Andersons, Royce Robinsons, Alex Germers, Dylan Holsts, Caleb Bellachs of the world don’t move the needle in any material way. That is to say, the hit rate on Montanans has been MUCH lower. And although the guys you list were one and done, that one and done was a championship. You wouldn’t get that with a large contingent of Montana guys. Period. I’m really not even sure how you’re trying to argue this.

I think the real problems with this years team were pretty apparent and had zilch to do with a lack of Montanans. This team sorely missed what Brandon Whitney, an unsung hero for years (and also a 5 yr Griz from California) provided.

 

[UMGriz26]

Great points. Montana only produces basketball players that will play for legit D1 teams. Let’s stop putting money or care into basketball. Every dime spent is wasted. Who cares if Montana goes 3-29? Makes no difference. Haslam already said all sports other than football are not competing for a championship, so why are we wasting money on out of state scholarships and nil when we can spend that money on football nil?

If Montana kids are not good enough to play on an Oakland laden 4th place low d1 team let’s take last and put the money into 1 sport. How could it hurt?

Any money from the ncaa tourney gets split 11 ways. Let Idaho or some random utah school waste their money to try to earn another credit.

Everyone makes the starch madness anyways.

Funny, because Montana has produced less than a handful of power conference quality basketball players in this century. Tinkle, Evans, and Worster. That’s the list. The list of guys gracing even the Big Sky conference isn’t much longer.

Just think logically. If Montana had a wealth of Division One basketball talent, don’t you think the Griz and Cats would capitalize on that?

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

Montana basketball is far better than obviously some here are giving credit. Looking at your rosters from last years' championship. You listed 7 guys. We had one more kid on the bench, Tyler Thompson, who contributed this year. The rest of last year's squad is GONE. Because they were random dudes that were not good. Why wouldn't you want a bench that cultivated Montana talent.?

Of the guys you mentioned:

Joe pridgen: literally fell into the coached lap because his wife is from Kalispell. Would not have been on his radar otherwise. But he was certainly a GREAT player.

Kai Johnson: great player, had for one season.

Malik moore: one season and gone to the portal.

The rest of the roster was highly mediocre.

Look at the last ncaa winning team from 2006. 3 main contributors from Montana.

If you'd rather cycle through random dudes on the end of the bench that have zero connection or passion, rather than cultivating a culture of bringing in top Montana talent every year, congrats, because thats what you currently have.

I'd prefer having a culture of bringing in Montana studs that play their assessment off and have more sticking power and resistance to the portal. By the way, before travis, its ALWAYS been this way. Have 3-5 Montana studs and bring in out of state talent as well. Hell... Travis played with several Montana studs himself!!!

Who are these D1 players you speak of? Lets say going back 5 yrs?

 

[Grizbeer]

Funny, because Montana has produced less than a handful of power conference quality basketball players in this century. Tinkle, Evans, and Worster. That’s the list.

Great point. Your are Right. Well you might have missed a few good players. But let’s say you are right. Why waste money on basketball at UM if there are no good D1 players and UM never has a chance to make history? Spend the money where it can make a difference. Defund Montana basketball.

There might be a few other Montana kids who made good at Montana, but yeah Montana sucks. Let’s not recruit Montana kids at, you know, The University Of Montana?

 

[Grizbeer]

But seriously, don’t you think Montana could finish in the top 6 in conference with 2 -3 Montana Gatorade all Americans, or a couple players from the Rez that play at small schools that get no recognition on the roster? Because that is what they can accomplish with bay area and puget sound kids that don’t make a good team. Would 3 cheaper scholarships that bring in 1000 people per game keep UM from not winning a 16 seed in March madness every 5-7 years?

 

[Grizbeer]

Btw my wish list for All programs is simple - players, coaches and administrators that care about winning and representing the university. That’s it.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Hate to be that person, but Montana kids aren’t the answer in hoops. Lincoln Rogers will end up D-1 but a kid of his level only comes out of Montana once every few years. The fact of the matter is that basketball has fewer roster spots than football; the standard to land on a D-1 roster is higher. That’s increasingly true with P-4 programs recruiting less high school kids.

Montana can and does have success grabbing guys from the PNW and California. Jemai Lake, coming in next season, is the #1 guy in the state of Oregon. The 2 others played for a nationally ranked program in California. Grabbing multiple MT kids out of HS every year would not bode well. We should grab only the occasional Rogers level prospect.

Travis has made the conference chipper 7 times from 11 tries. Wholesale changes are not required. Some minor tweaks in managing the offense late in games, retaining the young guys we have now, and supplementing the current roster with a transfer big and point guard are all I see as necessary to get back to the top of the conference. A reliable role player like we had in Austin Patterson would be a cherry on top, but likely could come from in house - Courtney Anderson Jr?

Betts and Anderson need to get fully healthy.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Interesting thread. A lot to consider. So... what about more active recruitment of foreign students? The Griz have had some success with Aussies. This is an option I think the women's hoops program could successfully navigate, despite the fact that a player from New Zealand did not work out.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Currently, Montana doesn't have div 1 talent every year. I definitely believe, Lincoln Rogers is a legit D1 talent.

Could MT cultivate more D1 basketball talent? Hell yeah, it could. Unfortunately, it's going to take extreme focus from. GRIZ and Cat coaching staffs. Or add a position entirely dedicated to youth basketball development. That would consist of developing youth cosches statewide with cosching clinics and camps. Then, quality camps available at most county and or city schools k-12.
Let's not forget, getting parents on board too.

That's going to take maybe a decade to see dividends. Personally I feel, it's worth giving a shot.

 

[Grizbeer]

Completely missing the point. Of course Montana doesn’t have by the Hoyle D1 talent. Of course we don’t. That’s a unicorn. The point is we have already as a state and university conceded that we will never be as much as a sweet sixteen team. That was written in stone when hogan was fired far daring to mention that UM could be the next Gonzaga and reached the sweet 16 and fired Holst and hired Kennedy. The boosters rebelled and the die was cast.

So, OK we understand. We are a nowhere program that at best will make a rug of March madness. Cool. And now the big sky is so bad we hoped the tournament winner will be a 16 play in game in the play in at Dayton. But UM gets the same Money if Idaho or psu or msu or Dixie’s state or UM wins the play in game. So why not save the money on bay area or puget sound 7-14 players, and give some little help to Montana kids if our goal is 4th place and an occasional trip as 16 seed? Why waste the money?

 

[nicktaber58]

Betts and Anderson need to get fully healthy.

Betts and Anderson were complete flops this year, and i'd be surprised if both are on the roster next season.

 

[nicktaber58]

Completely missing the point. Of course Montana doesn’t have by the Hoyle D1 talent. Of course we don’t. That’s a unicorn. The point is we have already as a state and university conceded that we will never be as much as a sweet sixteen team. That was written in stone when hogan was fired far daring to mention that UM could be the next Gonzaga and reached the sweet 16 and fired Holst and hired Kennedy. The boosters rebelled and the die was cast.

So, OK we understand. We are a nowhere program that at best will make a rug of March madness. Cool. And now the big sky is so bad we hoped the tournament winner will be a 16 play in game in the play in at Dayton. But UM gets the same Money if Idaho or psu or msu or Dixie’s state or UM wins the play in game. So why not save the money on bay area or puget sound 7-14 players, and give some little help to Montana kids if our goal is 4th place and an occasional trip as 16 seed? Why waste the money?

Totally missing the point. The funny thing is, last time we won the first round game in 2006 we had 3 top contributors from Montana.

 

[nicktaber58]

Currently, Montana doesn't have div 1 talent every year. I definitely believe, Lincoln Rogers is a legit D1 talent.

Could MT cultivate more D1 basketball talent? Hell yeah, it could. Unfortunately, it's going to take extreme focus from. GRIZ and Cat coaching staffs. Or add a position entirely dedicated to youth basketball development. That would consist of developing youth cosches statewide with cosching clinics and camps. Then, quality camps available at most county and or city schools k-12.
Let's not forget, getting parents on board too.

That's going to take maybe a decade to see dividends. Personally I feel, it's worth giving a shot.

Currently, montana most definitely has d1 talent. Everyone acts ljke the tech loss was a fluke. It was not a fluke. The best pure shooter, quick release, could create his own shot, was Braden Koch from helena capital. I was there live and in person. He literally has a better pure shot, with elevation and a quick release than *literally everyone* on our roster this year. Diekhans from *Geraldine* was as good of a pure Hooper and athlete as anyone on our team. And, IT MEANT MORE to our team.

Also, literally every coach prior to Travis recruited Montana kids. Every coach.

 

[nicktaber58]

Who are these D1 players you speak of? Lets say going back 5 yrs?

Braden Koch came into missoula and showed everyone that was there that he literally has a better pure shot, with elevation and quick release, than anyone on our current roster. Better than isaak, kepley, Tyler Thompson, literally everyone.

Give me:
Rey johnston
Braden Koch
Dougie peoples
Lincoln rogers

On our current roster with:
Brooklyn hicks
Money Williams
Tyler Thompson
Kenyon aguino
Connor dick

Plus the freshman coming in, then go be lazer focused in bringing in big men with athleticism.

 

[nicktaber58]

You can conveniently leave out B-Whit and countless other non-Montanans that TDC has recruited and had stay and contribute for multiple good seasons of basketball, but it doesn’t change the reality. Sorry, the Connor Dicks, Mack Andersons, Royce Robinsons, Alex Germers, Dylan Holsts, Caleb Bellachs of the world don’t move the needle in any material way. That is to say, the hit rate on Montanans has been MUCH lower. And although the guys you list were one and done, that one and done was a championship. You wouldn’t get that with a large contingent of Montana guys. Period. I’m really not even sure how you’re trying to argue this.

I think the real problems with this years team were pretty apparent and had zilch to do with a lack of Montanans. This team sorely missed what Brandon Whitney, an unsung hero for years (and also a 5 yr Griz from California) provided.

Give me B Whit too!

 

[mtgrizrule]

Betts and Anderson were complete flops this year, and i'd be surprised if both are on the roster next season.

Betts was only healthy for a short period. Anderson was a key rotational player. Unfortunately, he too got injured. That doesn't make them flops. Anderson was very solid in most his appearances. Betts reinjured himself as he was getting some spot minutes.

 

[nicktaber58]

Betts was only healthy for a short period. Anderson was a key rotational player. Unfortunately, he too got injured. That doesn't make them flops. Anderson was very solid in most his appearances. Betts reinjured himself as he was getting some spot minutes.

Anderson was ... OK until he got hurt. Didnt move the needle much. Betts definitely was a flop.

 

[Sport]

Could we all just stop this rhetoric about recruiting Montanan kids vs out ot state and concentrate on the givens and the hear and now.
Collegiate athletics, specifically in the advent of NIL and the Portal is no longer your fathers sports teams.
collegiate athletics is no longer amateur, it’s a business, just like the shoe store in the mall or the sporting goods store under the name Bob Wards & Sons.
Businesses survive on Profit and Loss, as do our athletic teams.
Businesses survive by putting the best products and services to their customers.
Athletic teams survive by the same measurements. And butts in the seats.
Football is a different animal as it relates to basketball. It’s an apple to oranges comparison.
Football has with split scholarships 80+. Basketball on the other hand has I think it’s 15.
UofM and msu traditionally have 45/50 Montanans on their football teams with many being walk-ons or non-schlorship players. Out of those 45/50 how many become impact players. At best maybe 5 or 8. Those are not good odds. Use that same metric for basketball. It’s not that pretty.
Just as we, the BSC and all the other low mid major conferences, have become the Farm System for the ACC, The BIG 10 and the SEC we need to play it down. Meaning, Western, Northern, Rocky and Mt. Tec, Carroll and all the division 2 teams in the Northwest should be our Farm System. We should spend as much time evaluating and scouting these teams as we do hoping to get land a Div1 drop down.
Back to my original premise, if I had one. Basketball should recruit the best players they have the ability to convince and recruit to the U of Montana. Regardless of country of origin.
Until Congress, good luck there, or a presidential order comes down, collegiate sports will be as unequal as the “special operation” taking place in the Middle East.