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LadyGriz Lady Griz: Time to Cut the Montana Ties

Tech won twice from 2019 and this season. Montana is 49 - 13 overall. 17 - 6 in Missoula. But this seasons game was only Techs second win in the last 80 years. Montana won twice since that loss to tech in 2019 and 12 games prior to 2019.
 
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Colter_Nuanez56 said:
The point is not to recruit 5 Montana kids every year. It’s to recruit 1-2 every year and have 3-4 on the roster from a variety of classes.

Also, I agree, very many Montana kids are not D1 ready right away. But those kids have a better chance of being willing to redshirt and could develop. At the low major level - and don’t kid yourself, the Big Sky is low major - you are turning over 50-75 percent of your roster every single year. Why not mitigate that by having the middle to bottom third of your roster dedicated to local kids who could be really good 5th starters or solid bench guys by their 4th or fifth years in the program? Empower them to stay. Then you can spend SO MUCH more of your recruiting resources getting Money Williams and Martin Breunig and Michael Oguine and Ahmaad Rorie…

One other question I have: for all of Montana basketball’s modern history, they’ve had great players from Montana. Every single NCAA Tournament team ever, except last year, had solid Montana guys. DeCuire has had some good Montana players - Kendal Manuel, Jared Samuelson - but they had to start their careers elsewhere.

Raequan Evans is from Billings and a Griz legacy kid. After a detour through JC, he started in the Elite 8 for Florida State.

So here’s my question. How has there been solid to great Montana talent - from Larry Krystkowiak to Roger Fasting to Darrell Engellant to all the great Montanans who played for Blaine Taylor like Spoja and Kirk Walker and Jr Camel and Shawn Samuelson to guys like Kevin Criswell, Jordan Hasquet, Jack McGillis who won an NCAA Tournament game to Manuel and Samuelson- on all the best Montana teams….but there’s this steadfast perception that there’s no D1 talent in Montana AND that it’s getting less recruitable and the talent is getting worse. How can that be?

How are athletes across the board in basically every sport everywhere, and particularly in Montana - look at the Power 4 girls track athletes this state is pumping out right now - getting better and boys’ basketball is getting worse? Could it be that it’s just way easier to recruit huge metro areas now so the perception that Montana is not good enough is created as a side effect? Honest question. Don’t understand how boys basketball is getting way worse while everything else is getting better…

Also, D1 coaches, and not just Montana, need to get over the prototype. Luka Doncic is one of the greatest players the game has ever seen and he’s not more athletic than anyone. Jokic is huge … but can’t jump over three sheets of paper. They are WAY more skilled tho. Better spacial awareness, vision, IQ, predictively ability, artistry.

Can Rey Johnston from Loyola out jump most anyone? Nope. But he’s 6-6, can shoot from 30 feet, is one of the best passing bigs I’ve seen in the last 25 years in Montana, went undefeated for three years in a row winning games by an average of 40 points, starred on the club circuit, just won Frontier Player of the Week as a true freshman….you’d telling me you’d rather have some 6-5 slap dick from Oakland who can’t shoot a lick, can’t pass, but can run and jump and commit fouls who will average 4 points, 3 rebounds a game, not like his limited role, vaguely fit into Missoula, and transfer after a year instead of seeing what Johnston could become after 5 years of D1 practice and training? Cmon…
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THIS X 1000!!!
 
Colter_Nuanez56 said:
The point is not to recruit 5 Montana kids every year. It’s to recruit 1-2 every year and have 3-4 on the roster from a variety of classes.

Also, I agree, very many Montana kids are not D1 ready right away. But those kids have a better chance of being willing to redshirt and could develop. At the low major level - and don’t kid yourself, the Big Sky is low major - you are turning over 50-75 percent of your roster every single year. Why not mitigate that by having the middle to bottom third of your roster dedicated to local kids who could be really good 5th starters or solid bench guys by their 4th or fifth years in the program? Empower them to stay. Then you can spend SO MUCH more of your recruiting resources getting Money Williams and Martin Breunig and Michael Oguine and Ahmaad Rorie…

One other question I have: for all of Montana basketball’s modern history, they’ve had great players from Montana. Every single NCAA Tournament team ever, except last year, had solid Montana guys. DeCuire has had some good Montana players - Kendal Manuel, Jared Samuelson - but they had to start their careers elsewhere.

Raequan Evans is from Billings and a Griz legacy kid. After a detour through JC, he started in the Elite 8 for Florida State.

So here’s my question. How has there been solid to great Montana talent - from Larry Krystkowiak to Roger Fasting to Darrell Engellant to all the great Montanans who played for Blaine Taylor like Spoja and Kirk Walker and Jr Camel and Shawn Samuelson to guys like Kevin Criswell, Jordan Hasquet, Jack McGillis who won an NCAA Tournament game to Manuel and Samuelson- on all the best Montana teams….but there’s this steadfast perception that there’s no D1 talent in Montana AND that it’s getting less recruitable and the talent is getting worse. How can that be?

How are athletes across the board in basically every sport everywhere, and particularly in Montana - look at the Power 4 girls track athletes this state is pumping out right now - getting better and boys’ basketball is getting worse? Could it be that it’s just way easier to recruit huge metro areas now so the perception that Montana is not good enough is created as a side effect? Honest question. Don’t understand how boys basketball is getting way worse while everything else is getting better…

Also, D1 coaches, and not just Montana, need to get over the prototype. Luka Doncic is one of the greatest players the game has ever seen and he’s not more athletic than anyone. Jokic is huge … but can’t jump over three sheets of paper. They are WAY more skilled tho. Better spacial awareness, vision, IQ, predictively ability, artistry.

Can Rey Johnston from Loyola out jump most anyone? Nope. But he’s 6-6, can shoot from 30 feet, is one of the best passing bigs I’ve seen in the last 25 years in Montana, went undefeated for three years in a row winning games by an average of 40 points, starred on the club circuit, just won Frontier Player of the Week as a true freshman….you’d telling me you’d rather have some 6-5 slap dick from Oakland who can’t shoot a lick, can’t pass, but can run and jump and commit fouls who will average 4 points, 3 rebounds a game, not like his limited role, vaguely fit into Missoula, and transfer after a year instead of seeing what Johnston could become after 5 years of D1 practice and training? Cmon…
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Copy that portal player: tall, pretty spinning dribbler, he jumps, dunks, is fast, but a low scorer, low assists, crappy defense, fouls, low rebounder, turns ball over+big ego....portal traveler.
 
Colter_Nuanez56 said:
The point is not to recruit 5 Montana kids every year. It’s to recruit 1-2 every year and have 3-4 on the roster from a variety of classes.

Also, I agree, very many Montana kids are not D1 ready right away. But those kids have a better chance of being willing to redshirt and could develop. At the low major level - and don’t kid yourself, the Big Sky is low major - you are turning over 50-75 percent of your roster every single year. Why not mitigate that by having the middle to bottom third of your roster dedicated to local kids who could be really good 5th starters or solid bench guys by their 4th or fifth years in the program? Empower them to stay. Then you can spend SO MUCH more of your recruiting resources getting Money Williams and Martin Breunig and Michael Oguine and Ahmaad Rorie…

One other question I have: for all of Montana basketball’s modern history, they’ve had great players from Montana. Every single NCAA Tournament team ever, except last year, had solid Montana guys. DeCuire has had some good Montana players - Kendal Manuel, Jared Samuelson - but they had to start their careers elsewhere.

Raequan Evans is from Billings and a Griz legacy kid. After a detour through JC, he started in the Elite 8 for Florida State.

So here’s my question. How has there been solid to great Montana talent - from Larry Krystkowiak to Roger Fasting to Darrell Engellant to all the great Montanans who played for Blaine Taylor like Spoja and Kirk Walker and Jr Camel and Shawn Samuelson to guys like Kevin Criswell, Jordan Hasquet, Jack McGillis who won an NCAA Tournament game to Manuel and Samuelson- on all the best Montana teams….but there’s this steadfast perception that there’s no D1 talent in Montana AND that it’s getting less recruitable and the talent is getting worse. How can that be?

How are athletes across the board in basically every sport everywhere, and particularly in Montana - look at the Power 4 girls track athletes this state is pumping out right now - getting better and boys’ basketball is getting worse? Could it be that it’s just way easier to recruit huge metro areas now so the perception that Montana is not good enough is created as a side effect? Honest question. Don’t understand how boys basketball is getting way worse while everything else is getting better…

Also, D1 coaches, and not just Montana, need to get over the prototype. Luka Doncic is one of the greatest players the game has ever seen and he’s not more athletic than anyone. Jokic is huge … but can’t jump over three sheets of paper. They are WAY more skilled tho. Better spacial awareness, vision, IQ, predictively ability, artistry.

Can Rey Johnston from Loyola out jump most anyone? Nope. But he’s 6-6, can shoot from 30 feet, is one of the best passing bigs I’ve seen in the last 25 years in Montana, went undefeated for three years in a row winning games by an average of 40 points, starred on the club circuit, just won Frontier Player of the Week as a true freshman….you’d telling me you’d rather have some 6-5 slap dick from Oakland who can’t shoot a lick, can’t pass, but can run and jump and commit fouls who will average 4 points, 3 rebounds a game, not like his limited role, vaguely fit into Missoula, and transfer after a year instead of seeing what Johnston could become after 5 years of D1 practice and training? Cmon…
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These are great points Colter. What may not be fully addressed is whether Montana high school athletes truly view UM or MSU as a viable opportunity.

While UM can serve as a strong fallback option. Especially if you highly recruited that said kid before their choice to leave state. In today’s climate that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, the larger question is what the MBB and WBB staffs have done to proactively build relationships with in-state athletes to make UM/MSU a primary option rather than a default (either sign with Griz or transfer back.) .

How many Montana MBB and GBB players ultimately choose to leave the state? Is that driven by better perceived opportunities elsewhere, a lack of interest from UM coaches, or, in many cases, a desire to simply experience something beyond Montana because they now have the exposed to do? Or, as you mentioned, is it largely staff-driven—given that Binford consistently secures the top Montana talent?

For example, UM often feels like a viable option for under-recruited GBB players (Draya Wacker, Albrechts, Murphy, Bartch to name some recent recruits). DeCoite is the next line of this type of player. Hard working, gritty and competitive but was she recruited by other D1 schools? She is gonna have to develop some offensive skills to be effective at D1 level player. If she isnt happy with her role years 1-2 or maybe 3 is she going to see the opportunity that she has waiting ot will she look elsewhere like all kids do these days.

However, for those with multiple opportunities—especially those that allow them to leave Missoula—UM may be less appealing. Another issue not mentioned is how many kids truly want to come and sit through a redshirt yr, spend another yr riding the pine to get a few minutes their Soph season. Those days are gone and in 90% of the cases you bring up they want to play and not sit. Just today's climate.

You’ve already identified several of these athletes. As AAU programs like the Blazers and META continue to gain national traction, the question becomes whether Lady Griz recruiting will adapt accordingly.
 
Griz til I die said:
Ok first of all, the Tech loss was an anomaly. If we played them ten times we would beat them 9. Do they have a single MT player that would be a Big Sky all-conference player? I'm not so sure they would. Maybe they have 1-2 guys that could be a part of the rotation but like come on.

And yes the LG have dropped the ball as have Football. They do have some good MT players coming in next year, but the absence of MT players definitely hurt both programs this year.
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What ive watched over 50 years, is the good ole boys club. Both programs have missed great montana players, on both sides. Men and womens. Signing players who have NO business playing D1 ball, back to durham days to the current dick days. Cate signed her daughter and her friends who couldnt play a lick, cats do the same occasionally. Every year there are players from missoula or bozeman connects who cant play worth a shit on the team, consistently 2-3. Missing out on real talents. I get it, politics. Money, boosters, etc. if they went after the best players in montana each year they would have more support. There are plenty of players on both sides who get overlooked because of this bullshit. The griz deserve everything they get. Watched the game in bozeman they llook like a highschool team.
 
Perhaps these legacy athletes want nothing to do with the drastically changed town that their parents once played in. I grew up loving Missoula, lived there for eight years, and can barely stand to come to Missoula for work. When I am there I can’t wait to be gone. A once great city has lost its soul.
 
Griznative said:
Every year there are players from missoula or bozeman connects who cant play worth a shit on the team, consistently 2-3.
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Name the 2 or 3 players a year on the UM and MSU teams with Missoula or Bozeman ties over the past 5 years. Thete must be at least 10.

Do the last 2 or 3 players on any college roster of 12 contribute or play many meaningful minutes?
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
For starters, college rosters aren't 12.
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Maximum 15, many suit up less for games. Griz have 13 with stats this year. Roster size wasn't really my point.

Most teams run a maximum 9 rotation (please oh knower of everything correct me if its 8!)

Point being 2 or 3 on the roster with Montana ties (Dougie Peoples, Rey Johnston, Braden Koch are examples) wouldn't hurt the team at all.

Might even put a few hundred more butts in seats! Get more local businesses interested in NIL!
 
mousegriz1 said:
Maximum 15, many suit up less for games. Griz have 13 with stats this year. Roster size wasn't really my point.

Most teams run a maximum 9 rotation (please oh knower of everything correct me if its 8!)

Point being 2 or 3 on the roster with Montana ties (Dougie Peoples, Rey Johnston, Braden Koch are examples) wouldn't hurt the team at all.

Might even put a few hundred more butts in seats! Get more local businesses interested in NIL!
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Don't get all butt hurt.
 
The signing of local kids can cut both ways. Sign the wrong local kid and you’ve got a nightmare on your hands when he/she can’t cut it or if it takes 3 years for them to crack the rotation. Parents, aunts and uncles etc are all sitting in the stands wondering why Johnny isn’t subbing in.

It’s better to sign the 13-15 best kids, regardless of what state they’re from. This isn’t my original thought - read this in Tom Penders’ book. He said he used to shy away from local kids that local HS coaches and handlers were in his ear about for this reason. He didn’t want to deal with the headaches. Find the best kids.

Travis seems to have learned this lesson too. Not a lot of token Treasure State kids on the roster, I’m guessing for the same reason.
 
nicktaber58 said:
They should have bare minimum 5 guys on the roster from Montana. Minimum. That allows them to be more precise in who they go after out of state. The pridgens, money Williams etc etc.

Im not giving tech too much credit. They are a giod ball club, that came in and whooped the griz. Griz were a bit short handed etc etc. Totally get it. But what I saw with my own 2 eyes was at least 4 kids, 3 from Montana and 1 frosh from bonkers ferry Idaho, who could absolutely play, and compete at a high level on our team.
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Yes! Build a foundation with MT kids that will be here for 4-5 years. By the time those kids are juniors and seniors they are really solid role players to go with guys like Money and Sawyer. The Big Sky is not that good. People act like MT kids can’t develop into good Big Sky players if given the chance…..it’s not the SEC. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Griz piss around and let the Cats come in and get the Roger’s kid. Would be par for the course.
 
bigtyme said:
Perhaps these legacy athletes want nothing to do with the drastically changed town that their parents once played in. I grew up loving Missoula, lived there for eight years, and can barely stand to come to Missoula for work. When I am there I can’t wait to be gone. A once great city has lost its soul.
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Do you mean Bozeman?
 
BrownBear9501 said:
Yes! Build a foundation with MT kids that will be here for 4-5 years. By the time those kids are juniors and seniors they are really solid role players to go with guys like Money and Sawyer. The Big Sky is not that good. People act like MT kids can’t develop into good Big Sky players if given the chance…..it’s not the SEC. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Griz piss around and let the Cats come in and get the Roger’s kid. Would be par for the course.
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If the goal is to make and win games in the NCAA tournament, you cant have 5 from Montana, go get the best 1-2 players in the state and build around that. Winning NCAA games brings national recognition and NCAA distribution money.
 
MontanaGrizSoccer said:
If the goal is to make and win games in the NCAA tournament, you cant have 5 from Montana, go get the best 1-2 players in the state and build around that. Winning NCAA games brings national recognition and NCAA distribution money.
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Where does Montana recruit from, do they go to EYBL Nike showcases, plus there is Meta and NW Blazers in Spokane and now in MT.
 
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