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Hulapoops said:
Generational sea change takes time, but once you reach a tipping point, it’s hard to stop. Our biggest competitor has been chipping away for years and suddenly, they own the entire market.

If you want to stay relevant you have to keep powering your fly wheel. We stopped doing this right when Haslam became AD and now the momentum has stopped. The innovative vision that started with Dennison and Don Read was really kicked into gear by Wayne Hogan, an incredibly innovative AD.

Old heads like Hoops don’t get it and never will. That good ole boy complacency has killed our program, university and Missoula in general.
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So the program is dead? Also who are all of these “boomers” you speak of? Stupid and insulting post at best.
 
bobcatfan123 said:
This kinda proves my point more than anything. That was a reference from the movie “Old School” which came out 20 years ago. The average member of this board is so old that they don’t even catch on to references that are older than the athletes.
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This doesn't prove your point at all. It disproves your point. College kids don't drive the attendance, atmosphere or program at either school. And this board doesn't drive or affect stadium atmosphere in any respect.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Most of the fans at Griz games aren't the younger crowd and certainly not college kids. UM's stadium, noise and crowd are driven by those older, and much older, than college kids. You probably have never been to Griz stadium. UM's game-day atmosphere is much better than MSU's. Much louder and bigger crowd. Knowledgeable.
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I’ve been to many games in Missoula.

Yes WA Griz is louder than in Bozeman. You have a bigger venue that is designed very well for viewing/ crowd noise. It’s a great venue.

All of that to say UM hasn’t leveraged some things that matter to young people.

UM currently has approximately. 11000 students. MSU has approx 17000. This has been done through some very intentional marketing.

How do you think the two GameDay experiences will compare in 20 years if this trend continues?
 
bobcatfan123 said:
I’ve been to many games in Missoula.

Yes WA Griz is louder than in Bozeman. You have a bigger venue that is designed very well for viewing/ crowd noise. It’s a great venue.

All of that to say UM hasn’t leveraged some things that matter to young people.

UM currently has approximately. 11000 students. MSU has approx 17000. This has been done through some very intentional marketing.

How do you think the two GameDay experiences will compare in 20 years if this trend continues?
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I assume UM game-day will always be better than MSU's. More knowledgeable fans. Fervent. Nothing better than the NEZ;

How many college kids even go to games at the 2 schools? This isn't the SEC.

Why would you go to "many games" at Griz stadium?
 
mthoopsfan said:
Hey, da Boyz Mom, why aren't you complaining about this? How many times are you going to let this guy make the same (untrue) post without complaining?
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What part of it isn’t true? You literally bragged about it in another post and I was using this as a humorous example to help you realize how ridiculous you sound.

Player Rep, Hoops, whoever you are… I have watched you bully and belittle people on the board for years. You were literally on here spreading false BS about a well known Missoulian who died years ago and calling his kid out by name at Christmas.

Just so it’s clear, you are weird and creepy for getting validation from teenage kids who feel obligated to interact with you. I’ve met many attorneys at Dorsey, Davis-Wright, etc… it’s common, doesn’t make you special. Going to major concerts and sporting events also isn’t impressive, it’s something that anyone living in a major metro does all the time.

Sorry that you are in a crisis and having a hard time dealing with irrelevance. Be a normal person and get therapy. Don’t brag about how KTGF did a story about your personality disorder after punching someone at a rugby match 35 years ago. Stop it… get some help.
 
mthoopsfan said:
I assume UM game-day will always be better than MSU's. More knowledgeable fans. Fervent. Nothing better than the NEZ;

How many college kids even go to games at the 2 schools? This isn't the SEC.

Why would you go to "many games" at Griz stadium?
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Most of my family are UM supporters. My grandparents were lifelong season ticket holders and took me often.

I only became a Cat fan when my older cousin that I looked up to was recruited to play basketball at MSU in the early 90s

Also my wife is a UM grad and she still enjoys going to a game from time to time.
 
Doesn't look like UM is having any problems with attendance and season tickets. Where do some of these posters come up with their nonsense?

Seasons ticket sales ahead increased 15% eery year since 2021.

"Demand for Grizzly football has once again reached an all-time high.

For the first time in program history, Montana has sold-out of season tickets ahead of the 2025 slate with 19,737 packages sold and distributed more than a week before kickoff.

The new total marks the third-consecutive year Montana has set a new season ticket record. This year's total is nearly 1,000 more than 2024's record, is roughly 80 percent the listed capacity of Washington-Grizzly Stadium and is one of the highest at any level of college football in the Rocky Mountain West.

Montana has seen year-over year increases in season ticket sales since the Covid pandemic, averaging a nearly 15 percent increase every year since 2021. In 2023, UM broke the old stadium record (set in 2009) with 18,761 season tickets sold, built on that record with 18,881 in 2024, and set another new record in 2025 with 19,737 packages sold and distributed.

"This season ticket number is truly amazing and once again emphasizes this fact, the support Griz athletics receives from our passionate fan base is unmatched. I speak for our student-athletes, coaches and the university when I express my gratitude to Griz Nation for their commitment. We simply could not accomplish the goals we have set without this level of support," said UM director of athletics Kent Haslam.

UM led the FCS in accumulative attendance in 2024 with 193,391 passing through the turnstiles and finished second in average attendance with 24,174 fans per game. In 2024 Montana also set a new program record for consecutive sellouts at 16-straight games, a streak that started in 2022.

In 2023 Montana sold-out all six of its regular season games and sold-out the semifinal game against NDSU – the first playoff sellout in program history. The Griz also packed more than 27,000 into WGS for the first time ever that year with 27,178 in attendance to see the Griz beat Montana State 37-7 in the Brawl of the Wild game. All told, seven of the top 25 attended games in Washington-Grizzly Stadium history occurred in 2023 and 2024.

Boise State, which reached the College Football Playoff last season and is set to move to the Pac-12 next year, sold 19,762 season tickets in 2024, just 25 more than UM's new record.

The Griz would have placed second in the Mountain West Conference last year ahead of Fresno State (16,433), Colorado State (12,000), and UNLV (10,121), and would more than doubled the totals of San Diego State (9,852), Air Force (8,853), Utah State (8,612), Nevada (7,561), Hawaii (7,473), New Mexico (6,366), and San Jose State (3,446), according to a report from Nevada Sports Net.

Montana's new season ticket total is higher than five Mountain West teams' average home attendance in 2024 as well, including Nevada (17,288), Utah State (16,992), San Jose State (16,058), New Mexico (16,001), and Hawaii (12,963). It's also higher than every FCS team's 2024 average attendance outside of three other programs.

Elsewhere in the region, Washington State has reportedly sold 9,751 season tickets this year. The all-time record for season tickets at Martin Stadium in Pullman is reported to be just over 14,200.
 
Hulapoops said:
The innovative vision that started with Dennison and Don Read was really kicked into gear by Wayne Hogan, an incredibly innovative AD.
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Hogan was truly and innovative and brave AD. However he worked for an autocratic boss. Hogan was never in Dennison's hip pocket and he paid the price. Dennison engineered a bookkeeping landslide to create an AD overrun to force him out. Dennison demanded an AD to fit his agenda. That was not Hogan. A missed opportunity for UM.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Doesn't look like UM is having any problems with attendance and season tickets. Where do some of these posters come up with their nonsense?

Seasons ticket sales ahead increased 15% eery year since 2021.

"Demand for Grizzly football has once again reached an all-time high.

For the first time in program history, Montana has sold-out of season tickets ahead of the 2025 slate with 19,737 packages sold and distributed more than a week before kickoff.

The new total marks the third-consecutive year Montana has set a new season ticket record. This year's total is nearly 1,000 more than 2024's record, is roughly 80 percent the listed capacity of Washington-Grizzly Stadium and is one of the highest at any level of college football in the Rocky Mountain West.

Montana has seen year-over year increases in season ticket sales since the Covid pandemic, averaging a nearly 15 percent increase every year since 2021. In 2023, UM broke the old stadium record (set in 2009) with 18,761 season tickets sold, built on that record with 18,881 in 2024, and set another new record in 2025 with 19,737 packages sold and distributed.

"This season ticket number is truly amazing and once again emphasizes this fact, the support Griz athletics receives from our passionate fan base is unmatched. I speak for our student-athletes, coaches and the university when I express my gratitude to Griz Nation for their commitment. We simply could not accomplish the goals we have set without this level of support," said UM director of athletics Kent Haslam.

UM led the FCS in accumulative attendance in 2024 with 193,391 passing through the turnstiles and finished second in average attendance with 24,174 fans per game. In 2024 Montana also set a new program record for consecutive sellouts at 16-straight games, a streak that started in 2022.

In 2023 Montana sold-out all six of its regular season games and sold-out the semifinal game against NDSU – the first playoff sellout in program history. The Griz also packed more than 27,000 into WGS for the first time ever that year with 27,178 in attendance to see the Griz beat Montana State 37-7 in the Brawl of the Wild game. All told, seven of the top 25 attended games in Washington-Grizzly Stadium history occurred in 2023 and 2024.

Boise State, which reached the College Football Playoff last season and is set to move to the Pac-12 next year, sold 19,762 season tickets in 2024, just 25 more than UM's new record.

The Griz would have placed second in the Mountain West Conference last year ahead of Fresno State (16,433), Colorado State (12,000), and UNLV (10,121), and would more than doubled the totals of San Diego State (9,852), Air Force (8,853), Utah State (8,612), Nevada (7,561), Hawaii (7,473), New Mexico (6,366), and San Jose State (3,446), according to a report from Nevada Sports Net.

Montana's new season ticket total is higher than five Mountain West teams' average home attendance in 2024 as well, including Nevada (17,288), Utah State (16,992), San Jose State (16,058), New Mexico (16,001), and Hawaii (12,963). It's also higher than every FCS team's 2024 average attendance outside of three other programs.

Elsewhere in the region, Washington State has reportedly sold 9,751 season tickets this year. The all-time record for season tickets at Martin Stadium in Pullman is reported to be just over 14,200.
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When I graduated from UM we had close to 15,000 enrolled, MSU much less. We were the dominant athletic program, didn’t know many Cat fans growing up at all. Seems like that script has flipped big time, because the folks in Bozeman scratched, clawed, innovated, challenged.

How many more years can we be uncompetitive against our in-state rival and the natty before the things you tout above evaporate? You think it’s guaranteed? Ask your Stanford buddies how their season ticket sales are looking. Look at Nebraska (and they are the only program in their state)!

We are little brother, go ahead, say it out loud, you’ll feel better. We haven’t won a championship in 25 years, as the division has gotten less and less competitive. Bobby doesn’t have the ability to change any of that. The numbers don’t lie. He’s proven himself too stubborn to change and loyal to “his guys” to a fault.

It’s the AD’s job to recognize this and hold the coach accountable. But the only bigger Hauck bootlicker is Kent. Too afraid to challenge and scared to make a change. Considering how bad his women’s bball hires have been, I guess he’s right to be scared he’d make a bad hire.

Actually that’s a great example. Did anyone 25 years ago think our women’s bball program would be in the position it has been?
 
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Hulapoops said:
When I graduated from UM we had close to 15,000 enrolled, MSU much less. We were the dominant athletic program, didn’t know many Cat fans growing up at all. Seems like that script has flipped big time, because the folks in Bozeman scratched, clawed, innovated, challenged.

How many more years can we be uncompetitive before the things you tout above evaporate? You think it’s guaranteed? Ask your Stanford buddies how their season ticket sales are looking. Look at Nebraska (and they are the only program in their state)!

We are little brother, go ahead, say it out loud, you’ll feel better. We haven’t won a championship in 25 years, as the division has gotten less and less competitive. Bobby doesn’t have the ability to change any of that. The numbers don’t lie. He’s proven himself too stubborn to change and loyal to “his guys” to a fault.

It’s the AD’s job to recognize this and hold the coach accountable. But the only bigger Hauck bootlicker is Kent. Too afraid to challenge and scared to make a change. Considering how bad his women’s bball hires have been, I guess he’s right to be scared he’d make a bad hire.

Actually that’s a great example. Did anyone 25 years ago think our women’s bball program would be in the position it has been?
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I never thought the LG program would continue on top after Selvig left. It didn't. And now you want to fire most successful coach UM football has ever had.

MSU didn't improve because of this: "the folks in Bozeman scratched, clawed, innovated, challenged."

There was some good leadership, not all good leadership, and money raised as the Bozeman area grew and Bozeman had a huge tech boom with many good and successful companies. MSU increased its lucrative out of state students by almost 2,000, when UM didn't increase or go after big after out of state students.

"The state-funded share of the costs of higher education in the Montana University System dropped from 72% in the 1990s to 26% in 2018. State funding for higher education hovered around only 2.25% of the state’s general operating allocations. In response, MSU actively recruited non-resident students because the non-resident tuition and fees helped replace the dwindling state support. In 2018-2019 year, 40% of the undergraduate enrollees were non-resident, and the tuition & fees for the year were $24,849 for a non-resident student, 3.3 times the cost to a resident." Financially, that was a great move by MSU, and for whatever reason, UM didn't do that.

In football, MSU eventually got better coaches, along with more money, along with significant expansion of the stadium.

UM really faltered under Engstrom and the end of Dennison. Engstrom was a disaster, in my view.

Bodnar is a terrific president.

I know alot about MSU. I went to junior high and high school in Bozeman. My family is still centered there. My step-dad was a ME professor at MSU for multiple decades. My mom worked for the MSU Foundation. Our family friends had lots of professor families. My niece is married to a professor. Many of our family went to MSU, including recently. One of our kids went to MSU. I represented half of the good tech companies in Bozeman for several decades. Our firm, and I, did work for MSU. I follow MSU and read lots of articles. Some of our family and family businesses have been MSU supporters for about 70 years. I was asked to join MSU QB Club at one point in the past I turned down a football scholarship at MSU. My family and I contribute to MSU.
 
mthoopsfan said:
I never thought the LG program would continue on top after Selvig left. It didn't. And now you want to fire most successful coach UM football has ever had.

MSU didn't improve because of this: "the folks in Bozeman scratched, clawed, innovated, challenged."

There was some good leadership, not all good leadership, and money raised as the Bozeman area grew and Bozeman had a huge tech boom with many good and successful companies. MSU increased its lucrative out of state students by almost 2,000, when UM didn't increase or go after big after out of state students.

"The state-funded share of the costs of higher education in the Montana University System dropped from 72% in the 1990s to 26% in 2018. State funding for higher education hovered around only 2.25% of the state’s general operating allocations. In response, MSU actively recruited non-resident students because the non-resident tuition and fees helped replace the dwindling state support. In 2018-2019 year, 40% of the undergraduate enrollees were non-resident, and the tuition & fees for the year were $24,849 for a non-resident student, 3.3 times the cost to a resident." Financially, that was a great move by MSU, and for whatever reason, UM didn't do that.

In football, MSU eventually got better coaches, along with more money, along with significant expansion of the stadium.

UM really faltered under Engstrom and the end of Dennison. Engstrom was a disaster, in my view.

Bodnar is a terrific president.

I know alot about MSU. I went to junior high and high school in Bozeman. My family is still centered there. My step-dad was a ME professor at MSU for multiple decades. My mom worked for the MSU Foundation. Our family friends had lots of professor families. My niece is married to a professor. Many of our family went to MSU, including recently. One of our kids went to MSU. I represented half of the good tech companies in Bozeman for several decades. Our firm, and I, did work for MSU. I follow MSU and read lots of articles. Some of our family and family businesses have been MSU supporters for about 70 years. I was asked to join MSU QB Club at one point in the past I turned down a football scholarship at MSU. My family and I contribute to MSU.
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Tell Bobby that you contribute to Msu. I'm sure he'd share the same sentiment 🤣🤣
 
mthoopsfan said:
I never thought the LG program would continue on top after Selvig left. It didn't. And now you want to fire most successful coach UM football has ever had.

MSU didn't improve because of this: "the folks in Bozeman scratched, clawed, innovated, challenged."

There was some good leadership, not all good leadership, and money raised as the Bozeman area grew and Bozeman had a huge tech boom with many good and successful companies. MSU increased its lucrative out of state students by almost 2,000, when UM didn't increase or go after big after out of state students.

"The state-funded share of the costs of higher education in the Montana University System dropped from 72% in the 1990s to 26% in 2018. State funding for higher education hovered around only 2.25% of the state’s general operating allocations. In response, MSU actively recruited non-resident students because the non-resident tuition and fees helped replace the dwindling state support. In 2018-2019 year, 40% of the undergraduate enrollees were non-resident, and the tuition & fees for the year were $24,849 for a non-resident student, 3.3 times the cost to a resident." Financially, that was a great move by MSU, and for whatever reason, UM didn't do that.

In football, MSU eventually got better coaches, along with more money, along with significant expansion of the stadium.

UM really faltered under Engstrom and the end of Dennison. Engstrom was a disaster, in my view.

Bodnar is a terrific president.

I know alot about MSU. I went to junior high and high school in Bozeman. My family is still centered there. My step-dad was a ME professor at MSU for multiple decades. My mom worked for the MSU Foundation. Our family friends had lots of professor families. My niece is married to a professor. Many of our family went to MSU, including recently. One of our kids went to MSU. I represented half of the good tech companies in Bozeman for several decades. Our firm, and I, did work for MSU. I follow MSU and read lots of articles. Some of our family and family businesses have been MSU supporters for about 70 years. I was asked to join MSU QB Club at one point in the past I turned down a football scholarship at MSU. My family and I contribute to MSU.
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MSU didn't improve because of this: "the folks in Bozeman scratched, clawed, innovated, challenged."

But then you go on to describe 20 years of them doing that. Yep, there was some tech, also increase in tourism. They saw an advantage, took an opportunity. Recovered from major controversy (drug murders ‘06), then when that coach topped out let him go… never settled, tried to grow and improve.

People say Bozeman’s fortunes were based in tech. I wonder if that’s overblown and it’s more tourism related. They had Right Now, but my understanding is Oracle shipped a lot of those jobs to Texas. Snowflake, but that is just so the owners can spend time at Big Sky. Most headcount is still in the Bay.
 
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bobcatfan123 said:
But…. Why are you against improvements being suggested to your own program? What are you fighting against?
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You think "improvements" would be changes to some music for college students, of which there are only a few thousand at games. And this would improve the program. And save the program for the future. That is just plain silly. I don't care about the music and rarely even hear it, so I don't care. But if UM wants the support and dollars to keep flowing, UM needs to take care of the people who are attending, paying some bucks and contributing.

My guess is that your "improvements" aren't even improvements. There are people, including paid marketing people, who oversee what occurs at the games, in terms of entertainment.

If 68 is even fighting, he's flighting against some of the silly comments made by some Cat fan who doesn't know what's going on at UM.
 
At ASU they have roughly 32,000 season tickets and 14,000 students attending each game. The ratio of students to season ticket holders is a lot higher at ASU than UM.
 
Hulapoops said:
MSU didn't improve because of this: "the folks in Bozeman scratched, clawed, innovated, challenged."

But then you go on to describe 20 years of them doing that. Yep, there was some tech, also increase in tourism. They saw an advantage, took an opportunity. Recovered from major controversy (drug murders ‘06), then when that coach topped out let him go… never settled, tried to grow and improve.

People say Bozeman’s fortunes were based in tech. I wonder if that’s overblown and it’s more tourism related. They had right now, but my understanding is Oracle shipped a lot of those jobs to Texas. Snowflake, but that is just so the owners can spend time at Big Sky.
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No, nothing I described was scratching or clawing. Nothing. I suppose some innovations occurred. Challenges? Don't even know what you are talking about.

Some tech. Huge tech. It's driven the Bozeman area economy. It's made alot of people rich, and attracted alot of tech and other people to the area.

Oracle is a small piece of Bozeman tech. There are scores of tech companies in the area. I see an article saying 100 jobs were sent to Texas. That's a drop in the bucket.

Much of what the tech boom brought to the area, including what RightNow Tech (my client that sold to Oracle) brought, was wealth for the early add more senior workers and investors, and for the top people. I made 10X on my investment in a round of its preferred stock. Those with big stock options made a ton of money, some multiple millions. Yes, there were and are also a good number of high-paying jobs. You clearly don't understand the Bozeman tech economy or understand business.

RNT probably gave 3/4 of billion (a guess) of wealth to local people. Many of those people are Cat supporters. It also resulted in multiple new tech companies being started, some of which have done very well. And former RNT employees have gone on to take positions at area tech companies. I worked with these companies for 3.5 decades. Some Silicon Valley investors bought places in the area. Some moved to the area. Some brought other companies or moved headquarters or opened offices for their other companies.

Here's a big company that got to Bozeman. "FICO (legal name: Fair Isaac Corporation) is an American data analytics company based in Bozeman, Montana, focused on credit scoring services." "In 2013, it moved its headquarters to San Jose, California, a year after CEO William Lansing joined. In 2016, it opened an office in Bozeman, Montana, which later became its headquarters." I worked with Will in NYC when he got out of college. In the late 90's, I introduced him to Greg Gianforte, the CEO of RNT, my client. Will went on the board of RNT. He started spending more and more time in the Bozeman area and eventually moved to Bozeman. Great guy and very smart. Has done a great job with Fico.

​

 
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