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MBBALL What's Up With Me and Montana Basketball

citygriz

Well-known member
What’s Up with Me and Montana Basketball?

I dunno. Wish I did.

I know I have a l-o-n-g passionate history with it.

As a little kid, my first heroes were Ray Howard and Zip Rhodes. The Griz in those days wore the striped pants that Indiana made so popular.

As a student, basketball was all the rage. You waited in line to get in. The atmosphere was insane, electric.

As an adult, living in the Bay Area, I’ve traveled over the years to Portland, Corvallis, Eugene, Reno, Stockton, San Jose, Stanford, Sacramento, Malibu, Los Angeles (both USC and UCLA) and of course across town to USF to watch “my Griz.”

I remember specific moments. Like asking Mike Montgomery early before a game if he planned to leave Montana.

“Make me an offer,” he said. (And Stanford did.)

Like Micheal Ray Richardson completely taking over a game at Pacific, while their coach yelled in vain for his kids to stop him. They couldn’t.

Or Wayne Tinkle standing pre-game in the lobby at USF, looming over a group of well-wishers and potential recruits, charming everybody.

Only two years ago, in Portland, I sneaked down during a time out to chat with Money Williams, sitting at the end of the bench with the injury that kept him out most of his freshman year. Wonderful kid. If character is destiny, he has a great future.

I like and respect Travis DeCuire for his character and his coaching ability, and know that if he left, the program would be in great hands with Chris Cobb (whose father I shared Voodoo Donuts with on a flight back from Portland.)

And yet...I dunno...when I go to egriz, I hardly check in on basketball anymore.

It’s not that I’m mad at anybody. Not raging for a change in the coaching staff or upset about the off-court behavior of the members of our team, as I was with football a few years ago. DeCuire has run a pretty clean program.

But then there’s this: Our program is in a rut, good enough to always be among the top teams in the Big Sky, but never good enough to achieve my dream of a Sweet 16—as we came very close to when Krysko was running this program.

The lack of a credible big man will continue to hurt us. Small ball is over but next year two more guards join a program that’s already loaded with guards. Our best big man during the DeCuire era was a Tinkle recruit.

The offense will continue to stall out for five to six minutes every few games, sometimes critical games, like the Big Sky championship game against the Bobcats in 2024, where we blew a six-point halftime lead and lost by 15.

I continue to pine for an offensive-minded coach such as we had in Ken Bone during the first years of the DeCuire regime but it’s clear, that ain’t happening

We’ll continue to be capable of a victory at UNLV but destroy that optimism with a home loss to...ugh!...Montana Tech.

I’m not a homer, especially since I have not lived in Montana for eons. And I’ve long recognized that to run an intercollegiate athletic program at Montana, you have to recruit out-of-state.

I also confess to liking the days when we had a few Montana kids on the team. But have we recruited one Montana Gatorade Player of the Year during the DeCuire regime?

Brendan Howard went to Montana State, Rollie Worster to Utah State then to Utah. Brayden Koch, the 2020-21 Gatorade Player of the Year, just scored 19 against us for Montana Tech, hitting four of eight from deep. And the last two-time winner, 6’6” Rey Johnston, averages 12 points and 5 rebounds per game as a freshman for College of Idaho.

Granted, only Worster is of the caliber of a Kevin Criswell, Derek Selvig or Tres Tinkle so maybe it’s just a dearth of talent these past few decades. But I think Johnston might turn out to be pretty good.

“I’ve coached in this conference for 10 years and he’s the best player I’ve ever coached against and it’s not close,” Anaconda coach Dakota Norris said in a news release. “It’s no disrespect to those other players, but he’s that good.”

To sum up: No single thing. I wish--really wish--I could reclaim the old passion.

Yet again, our best hope is to win a Big Sky title, then come within 20 or 25 points of a #15 or #16 seed at the big Dance.

Montana basketball. It is what it is.

Ho hum.
 
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Well... first of all, think about who you were between the age of 17 and 22. That's been one of the most fascinating things for me as a fan since the pre-Jud days of the 1960s.

Since then the combination of Griz and GrizWBB teams have placed on the Dahlberg Arena floor by far the most successful, engaging and fun-to-watch teams in the Big Sky. It ain't even close. Frankly -- as an all-sport fan nowadays -- I enjoy the soccer, GrizVB and GrizSB teams just as much. (I had a blast this season interviewing and writing profiles of several GrizVB players... amazing kids! Amazing.).

But these are kids whose bodies & minds are full of the internal cyclones of mental, emotional, romantic and... sometimes painful (family struggles, drug use, romantic travails) struggles, as... well, as we were when we were that age. And we are asking of each and every team a Big Sky Championship, advancement to the NCAA playoffs and victories? I can say from experience, having interviewed hundreds of these kids for Missoulian, NCAA.com and UM Sports Info. that each kid is an unique individual within his or her own universe. When I ask them questions I look into their eyes and... I swear, I see a unique universe... sounds sort of crazy, but we all have had our hopes and dreams, haven't we?

Some teams, some years, etc. etc. have been struggles. Far be it for us old geezers to expect perfection every year. I can't give you any formula... but I have learned to love the story/journey of each team and many of the individuals. Win or lose... but mostly win, here in Dahlberg Arena.

So... in the long run my conclusion is somewhat similar to yours: Montana basketball: It is what it is. Sometimes not so good. But other seasons, like last season, for instance, when the Griz men hit a wave with perfect form and surfed that wave to the Big Sky title... while the women survived abuse, conflict and incredible odds to finish within a split second of a title as well. Well, just wow.

So each year I say to myself (before criticizing some kid for an on-court goof) take each year for what it is, and celebrate the journey with the kids.

If you and I want perfection, we can pick a pro team (the Warriors? The Blazers) and follow them. But frankly now... any dreams of Montana making the sweet 16 are just that... dreams.

So... let me back off now: I ain't giving you sage advice. I hope. You gotta take care of yourself. But for me, as a fan of the Griz since my first game in 1953 when at the age of 5 I was first thrilled at watching Zip Rhoades weave his on-court hoops magic... it's been a hell of a ride. So each year now... I ask for just one more magic season. Just one more, god. Thank you god. Go Griz.
 
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There is concern this is what the football team could become moving up to the current iteration of FBS. Our best hope would be to be within 30 points in the first CFP game. Not saying that concern is correct or warranted but the basketball program is a prime example for the naysayers about the football program moving up.
 
Well... first of all, think about who you were between the age of 17 and 22. That's been one of the most fascinating things for me as a fan since the pre-Jud days of the 1960s.

Since then the combination of Griz and GrizWBB teams have placed on the Dahlberg Arena floor by far the most successful, engaging and fun-to-watch teams in the Big Sky. It ain't even close. Frankly -- as an all-sport fan nowadays -- I enjoy the soccer, GrizVB and GrizSB teams just as much. (I had a blast this season interviewing and writing profiles of several GrizVB players... amazing kids! Amazing.).

But these are kids whose bodies & minds are full of the internal cyclones of mental, emotional, romantic and... sometimes painful (family struggles, drug use, romantic travails) struggles, as... well, as we were when we were that age. And we are asking of each and every team a Big Sky Championship, advancement to the NCAA playoffs and victories? I can say from experience, having interviewed hundreds of these kids for Missoulian, NCAA.com and UM Sports Info. that each kid is an unique individual within his or her own universe. When I ask them questions I look into their eyes and... I swear, I see a unique universe... sounds sort of crazy, but we all have had our hopes and dreams, haven't we?

Some teams, some years, etc. etc. have been struggles. Far be it for us old geezers to expect perfection every year. I can't give you any formula... but I have learned to love the story/journey of each team and many of the individuals. Win or lose... but mostly win, here in Dahlberg Arena.

So... in the long run my conclusion is somewhat similar to yours: Montana basketball: It is what it is. Sometimes not so good. But other seasons, like last season, for instance, when the Griz men hit a wave with perfect form and surfed that wave to the Big Sky title... while the women survived abuse, conflict and incredible odds to finish within a split second of a title as well. Well, just wow.

So each year I say to myself (before criticizing some kid for an on-court goof) take each year for what it is, and celebrate the journey with the kids.

If you and I want perfection, we can pick a pro team (the Warriors? The Blazers) and follow them. But frankly now... any dreams of Montana making the sweet 16 are just that... dreams.

So... let me back off now: I ain't giving you sage advice. I hope. You gotta take care of yourself. But for me, as a fan of the Griz since my first game in 1953 when at the age of 5 I was first thrilled at watching Zip Rhoades weave his on-court hoops magic... it's been a hell of a ride. So each year now... I ask for just one more magic season. Just one more, god. Thank you god. Go Griz.
This is pretty true... it is somewhat irrational to demand championship play every year, and not realistic. However, a big difference of teams of years gone by, and our current staff is the recruitment in 2 areas... both of which city hit on.

The fact we have been VERY hit n miss with inside / post talent is wild. It is very glaring. We simply do not recruit big/physical players. The only player in recent memory, Joe Pridgen, fell into our laps.

Second point, the fact we aren't recruiting aggressively the best player or two out of Montana every year is crazy. Of course, you have to bring in talent from out state as well, but we should be 4,5,6 deep ATLEAST on the roster of Montana kids every single year. This year, Connor dick is making a name for himself, as a sophomore, mostly out of his sheer effort and defensive tenacity. There was 3 Montana kids and a freshman out of bonners ferry idaho (basically northwestern Montana) that could absolutely be playing for the griz. Rey Johnston is a other one.

I like trav, Cobb, flo, and co. a ton, have supported a ton through round ball and their fundraising. Its an unfortunate miss that we're not cultivating a culture of bringing in in state and regional players. Heck, there are aau and circuit teams that these guys play on together all over.

These 2 things alone would cultivate much more consistency year in, year out. Cultivate in state and regional culture, and laser focus recruiting efforts beyond that on needed post play and elite talent.
 
At about 10 minutes into the Tech @ Griz game I realized I was enjoying the Orediggers a lot. Wondered how this team could compete in the Big Sky. Had fun throughout the game watching... as if it was sort of an Intra-Montana scrimmage with one of the teams loaded with all-Montana kids (or the second stringers, given a chance... amped up for an upset). And thought, "Man, I could love watching this team play all season!)."

Here's the thing about Montana though: There are many examples over the years where Montana kids, recruited very hard by Montana coaches, spurned Montana offers and LEFT the state to play under a big marquee. If coach Tinkle (Spokane, actually), Morrill, Taylor, Krystkowiak, Holst, (I'm skipping Kennedy), Schweyen (well, actually she did) tried hard to recruit an all-Montana team that could compete consistently in the Big Sky... it would likely be a tough task to do on a yearly basis. So... the Montana GrizWBB team has in place its "Home-grown" coaches. Will they be inclined to recruit the state to build such a team (like one legendary coach did yearly). I have my doubts. In the meantime, I'm pretty certain that the coaches for both the Griz and the Lady Griz will mold these two very young teams into competitive young squads. I am along 100% for the ride. Go GrizWBB. Go Griz.
 
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I like Travis, a lot. The previous post by both CityGriz and Griz Journal absolutely hit the nail on the head.
I was a student through the mid sixties when we weren’t very good. Coming from a small town in Northeast Montana just to see the athletism during those years was incredible but we were not very successful. Over the years when Jud and Montgomery were coaching there came a renaissance of outstanding players and coaches. Brandenburg and Blaine Taylor also added to the legacy of the Griz. I’ve wanted Travis to be member of that fraternity and he will be just by his total wins but in my estimation he’s not duplicated the success of his predecessors. Tinkle was a good coach, but again in my estimation, not a great coach. His success at OSU has been credible but not consistent.
The single most critical complaint I have for Travis’s teams over the years, and many others have voiced this as well, is the lack of a dominant big man down low. I recognize at our level it’s tough to recruit good big men. The last big that came up through the system was Brian Quale.
Another shortfall I see with this years team is a “Branden Whitney”. As good as Money is I just don’t see him as a point guard. He certainly has the skill set with his passing ability but something is missing. Maybe it’s just his non familiarity with his teammates?
At this point we are really struggling as a team. We were faced with a similar situation last year at this time and look where we ended up. Hope springs eternal!
 
I personally find it very difficult to be invested in the team when there are 8 new players every year. With smaller team sizes, it feels like basketball has been hit the hardest by the portal.

If you don't play as a young player, you hit the portal.

If you play as a young player, you hit the portal.
 
Irrelevant, but I played against Ray Howard in high school. Think we were both in the class of 1968. We beat them early in the season when they were ranked no. 1. I never ran across him after high school days. I played against Kirk Johnson too, and had to guard him a few times.

As some have said, I too find it hard to follow the team when there are so many new faces every year.

Played against Brent Wilson. Later in life, we played on the same City League team in Great Falls. I see that he died in 2021.
 
Times have changed. In the era of Michael Ray, Derrick Pope, Larry Krystkowiak, Mike Montgomery etc. - Griz basketball was THE show in town, and arguably it was the big deal throughout most of Montana, but especially in Missoula.

Hardly anyone who was interested in sports missed those games. Adams Fieldhouse was easily one of the toughest places for opponents to play at. Back in the late 70’s and through the 80’s it was Missoula and The Pit in Albuquerque that were known as the most hostile home courts in college basketball.

Missoula and the U of M got it on track with The Zoo, which was the famous student section that filled much of the side of the court that was across from the team bench side. It should be said that the Godfather of all of this hoops madness of the 70’s and 80’s was Jud Heathcoate, who would go on to win a National Championship with Magic Johnson at Michigan State in 1978.

Maybe the high water mark was in late January of 1982 when the Griz hosted unbeaten and 8th ranked Idaho and beat them 53-51 on Doug Selvig’s put in at the buzzer off of Marc Glass’ baseline miss. The starters on that Griz squad were Pope, Selvig, Glass, Rob Hurley, and Craig Larsen. Coach was Mike Montgomery and assistants were Stew Morrill and Bob Niehl. JV coaches were Kelly Arkell and a guy named Blaine Taylor.
 
Living in Missoula at this time (late 70's to early 80's), I went to a number of home games. CopperGold is dead on about the atmosphere then. The arena was jammed for every game and not just the students but the older folk participated in the bedlam. Quite a scene and one of my better experiences in fan excitement and participation.
 
Living in Missoula at this time (late 70's to early 80's), I went to a number of home games. CopperGold is dead on about the atmosphere then. The arena was jammed for every game and not just the students but the older folk participated in the bedlam. Quite a scene and one of my better experiences in fan excitement and participation.
Back then you either went to the game or you missed it. No watching the game from the bar or comfort of your own couch. I live out of state and am very thankful for the ESPN streaming services, but it has to have contributed to the decline in attendance, especially the older crowd when the era turns bad.
 
Irrelevant, but I played against Ray Howard in high school. Think we were both in the class of 1968. We beat them early in the season when they were ranked no. 1. I never ran across him after high school days. I played against Kirk Johnson too, and had to guard him a few times.

As some have said, I too find it hard to follow the team when there are so many new faces every year.

Played against Brent Wilson. Later in life, we played on the same City League team in Great Falls. I see that he died in 2021.
Hey, Greenie. Love ya but you're just a little kid as far as I'm concerned. The Ray Howard of which I speak goes back ato the 50's, to the Fabulous Frosh era. Your Ray Howard came along much later.

Interesting how this thread has stirred interest among us "Super Agers." Maybe the reason we're all so disillusioned with this era of basketball is that we remember the Golden Era when younger Griz fans don't.

I remember vividly watching with my brother as Idaho tore through the Far West Classic in Portland in 1982. I don't think they won a game by fewer than 15 points. And two days after they lost to us, they went on to play Notre Dame, amid terrible travel connections. I believe they got into South Bend at 4:30 a.m. the day of the game. Built an early lead but eventually lost to the John Paxon-led team. Still, I believe they wound up as the eighth-rated team in the nation. eventually losing in the NCAA tournament to the same Oregon State team they'd clobbered in the Far West Classic.

But, again, look at our lineup that beat that Idaho team. Craig Larsen is not among our most illustrious players but he was 6'11". Two kids in the starting lineup, Selving and Hurley, were from Montana. I'm not saying that's exclusively the difference between those teams and today, but it's one of them.

Another thing is the competition. Back then we had Idaho, Boise State and Nevada as marquee matchps. Glad Idaho is back and Weber and Montana State remain a constant. But the rest of the Big Sky? Of little interest to me. This is where a move up to the MWC back when we might have had a chance would really have aided the basketball program.

Nor has basketball fared well elsewhere. Weber has the most magnificent arena in the Big Sky Concerernece, but attendance is way down there too. In fact, college basketball attendance is down everywhere.

Still, there are schools where basketball is still the rage--Indiana, North Carolina, Arizona--so it needn't have come to this.

Meantime, get us a big or two. Puh-lease. Small ball is out, no matter you call it "Five Out." Bigs can play Five Out now too.
 
Times have changed. In the era of Michael Ray, Derrick Pope, Larry Krystkowiak, Mike Montgomery etc. - Griz basketball was THE show in town, and arguably it was the big deal throughout most of Montana, but especially in Missoula.

Hardly anyone who was interested in sports missed those games. Adams Fieldhouse was easily one of the toughest places for opponents to play at. Back in the late 70’s and through the 80’s it was Missoula and The Pit in Albuquerque that were known as the most hostile home courts in college basketball.

Missoula and the U of M got it on track with The Zoo, which was the famous student section that filled much of the side of the court that was across from the team bench side. It should be said that the Godfather of all of this hoops madness of the 70’s and 80’s was Jud Heathcoate, who would go on to win a National Championship with Magic Johnson at Michigan State in 1978.

Maybe the high water mark was in late January of 1982 when the Griz hosted unbeaten and 8th ranked Idaho and beat them 53-51 on Doug Selvig’s put in at the buzzer off of Marc Glass’ baseline miss. The starters on that Griz squad were Pope, Selvig, Glass, Rob Hurley, and Craig Larsen. Coach was Mike Montgomery and assistants were Stew Morrill and Bob Niehl. JV coaches were Kelly Arkell and a guy named Blaine Taylor.
My avatar is a photo of the student section of that game. The photo is from the Missoulian when they actually covered the Griz basketball program very heavily which they barely do now. Of course, I would not have this photo if I wasn't in the photo. Great fun back then. Remember having to get to a game around 2 to 2:30pm for a Griz-Cat game and I wasn't even the first in line.
 
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