How Illinois State and Montana State Built Championship FCS Rosters

[PDXGrizzly]

Yes, at least two cases on their current roster. The kids didn’t event consider Montana because of the degrees they wanted to pursue. This is a tough concept for some I guess. Kids playing FCS know they have a narrow shot at playing in the Not For Long league. Even if they do, there is no guarantee they get a fat contract and don’t get cut. So, the smart ones prepare for life and choose a degree they believe will provide for them long term. One of the two actually might play in the NFL. I hope he does. I pull for all Montana kids and he has great parents. STEM students are positioned well at MSU. Not everyone is pursuing careers in those fields. Business and some science fields are great at U of M. People need to wrap their heads around what a kid goes through in the recruiting process. They make weird decisions that often defy logic. Anyone who has been through the process knows that.

Montana has plenty of STEM options as well that need to be emphasized. Especially the cybersecurity program. I would argue that the biology, chemistry, physics, forestry, environmental science, etc. are STEM degrees. All of these are science degrees. The pre-med program is fantastic and has crazy good placement in medical schools.
The more liberal arts stuff that everyone dumps on are gateways to so many more things.

One thing that needs to be emphasized is the career pathways that the degrees offer. For example, a geography degree with an emphasis in urban planning opens the door to emergency management careers and public policy and government jobs. Environmental science opens the door to field research, industrial hygiene/safety, geotechnical jobs, and hazardous materials management (to name a few).

One of the biggest complaints I get from new grads (regardless of school) is that nobody really talks about what you can do with a degree once earned in a meaningful way. I think showing pathways and how careers can progress is super important in showing value out in the world.

 

[BozAngelesGriz]

Montana has plenty of STEM options as well that need to be emphasized. Especially the cybersecurity program. I would argue that the biology, chemistry, physics, forestry, environmental science, etc. are STEM degrees. All of these are science degrees. The pre-med program is fantastic and has crazy good placement in medical schools.
The more liberal arts stuff that everyone dumps on are gateways to so many more things.

One thing that needs to be emphasized is the career pathways that the degrees offer. For example, a geography degree with an emphasis in urban planning opens the door to emergency management careers and public policy and government jobs. Environmental science opens the door to field research, industrial hygiene/safety, geotechnical jobs, and hazardous materials management (to name a few).

One of the biggest complaints I get from new grads (regardless of school) is that nobody really talks about what you can do with a degree once earned in a meaningful way. I think showing pathways and how careers can progress is super important in showing value out in the world.

Exactly. And let’s not forget how long UM won this battle for, and they were a liberal arts focused institution back then, too.

 

[grizjumps45]

Yes, at least two cases on their current roster. The kids didn’t event consider Montana because of the degrees they wanted to pursue. This is a tough concept for some I guess. Kids playing FCS know they have a narrow shot at playing in the Not For Long league. Even if they do, there is no guarantee they get a fat contract and don’t get cut. So, the smart ones prepare for life and choose a degree they believe will provide for them long term. One of the two actually might play in the NFL. I hope he does. I pull for all Montana kids and he has great parents. STEM students are positioned well at MSU. Not everyone is pursuing careers in those fields. Business and some science fields are great at U of M. People need to wrap their heads around what a kid goes through in the recruiting process. They make weird decisions that often defy logic. Anyone who has been through the process knows that.

Sometimes i forget that i choose um track instead of the other schools because they had a political science program. puts it back into perspective for me, great post!

 

[grizjumps45]

Sometimes i forget that i choose um track instead of the other schools because they had a political science program. puts it back into perspective for me, great post!

but i do think that UM SHOULD TRY TO BE ADDING SOME OF THOSE PROGRAMS THOUGH. An engineering program here i think would really narrow the race.

 

[grizjumps45]

Exactly. And let’s not forget how long UM won this battle for, and they were a liberal arts focused institution back then, too.

A lot of this comes onto the academic athletic advisors at um. Having dealt with them personally i can tell you that they aren’t preparing these kids on what to do with the degree once it’s done. I used to be the go to host for recruits for the track team and sat in on many recruit meetings with the academic advisors. They do a terrible job of explaining the career options that those degrees offer. They also run an NCAA prep class that i’d argue is middle school level building a resume.

 

[griz4life]

but i do think that UM SHOULD TRY TO BE ADDING SOME OF THOSE PROGRAMS THOUGH. An engineering program here i think would really narrow the race.

That's not how any of this works. State universities were assigned mechanical arts colleges 130 years ago under the Morrill Act.


But more to the point, how many engineering majors are on the MSU football team? Taking a casual glance, out of 99 players on the MSU football roster, eight student athletes were majoring in engineering.
But... but engineering is an adjective at MSU. One of the eight graduated this fall with a degree in family engineering, which might help with household financial risk, but isn't real engineering.
Touchdown Tommy has a degree in financial engineering, which is math intense, but again not engineering.

There were 14 business majors on the team. Montana also has a great business school.
There were two marketing majors. Again, Montana great program.
There were two HHP majors. Again, Montana same.
Psychology, two. Montanna same.
Elementary ed, one. Montana not just the same, better.

Also, a F*k ton of players with no declared major. You know. One of the quips by the Yale coach after the MSU game was that his players were all on academic scholarships, not athletic, they all had finals to take when they got home. They were real students, which hit the mark when so many MSU players can't even list a major. His point wasn't that MSU is a crappy school, but rather his athletes hung with the bobcats while still managing to be students at a high level.

There was one out of six 2024 fall football graduates at MSU with an engineering degree unless you count Touchdown Tommy's financial engineering degree. The rest are finance, marketing and philosophy majors, all degrees offered by the University of Montana.

If you want to see something sad, look at how few articles MSU athletics does about football players graduating, or attending commencement. There are 3 in last 15 years.

 

['68griz]

That's not how any of this works. State universities were assigned mechanical arts colleges 130 years ago under the Morrill Act.


But more to the point, how many engineering majors are on the MSU football team? Taking a casual glance, out of 99 players on the MSU football roster, eight student athletes were majoring in engineering.
But... but engineering is an adjective at MSU. One of the eight graduated this fall with a degree in family engineering, which might help with household financial risk, but isn't real engineering.
Touchdown Tommy has a degree in financial engineering, which is math intense, but again not engineering.

There were 14 business majors on the team. Montana also has a great business school.
There were two marketing majors. Again, Montana great program.
There were two HHP majors. Again, Montana same.
Psychology, two. Montanna same.
Elementary ed, one. Montana not just the same, better.

Also, a F*k ton of players with no declared major. You know. One of the quips by the Yale coach after the MSU game was that his players were all on academic scholarships, not athletic, they all had finals to take when they got home. They were real students, which hit the mark when so many MSU players can't even list a major. His point wasn't that MSU is a crappy school, but rather his athletes hung with the bobcats while still managing to be students at a high level.

There was one out of six 2024 fall football graduates at MSU with an engineering degree unless you count Touchdown Tommy's financial engineering degree. The rest are finance, marketing and philosophy majors, all degrees offered by the University of Montana.

If you want to see something sad, look at how few articles MSU athletics does about football players graduating, or attending commencement. There are 3 in last 15 years.

Very interesting observations,

 

[oldngrizzly]

I think it matters very little what degree programs either college offers as far as recruiting athletes. You could poll them and I am sure I would be correct.

 

[Griz Addict]

Not talent rich but there is enough great FCS talent for a FCS school to be highly successful.

I'd say about 5-10 Montana players per year are actual FCS quality. Which isn't rich, or enough for an fcs school.

 

[Jerry Punch]

The entire premise is stupid. Montana would crush Ill state by 88.

That's not how any of this works. State universities were assigned mechanical arts colleges 130 years ago under the Morrill Act.


But more to the point, how many engineering majors are on the MSU football team? Taking a casual glance, out of 99 players on the MSU football roster, eight student athletes were majoring in engineering.
But... but engineering is an adjective at MSU. One of the eight graduated this fall with a degree in family engineering, which might help with household financial risk, but isn't real engineering.
Touchdown Tommy has a degree in financial engineering, which is math intense, but again not engineering.

There were 14 business majors on the team. Montana also has a great business school.
There were two marketing majors. Again, Montana great program.
There were two HHP majors. Again, Montana same.
Psychology, two. Montanna same.
Elementary ed, one. Montana not just the same, better.

Also, a F*k ton of players with no declared major. You know. One of the quips by the Yale coach after the MSU game was that his players were all on academic scholarships, not athletic, they all had finals to take when they got home. They were real students, which hit the mark when so many MSU players can't even list a major. His point wasn't that MSU is a crappy school, but rather his athletes hung with the bobcats while still managing to be students at a high level.

There was one out of six 2024 fall football graduates at MSU with an engineering degree unless you count Touchdown Tommy's financial engineering degree. The rest are finance, marketing and philosophy majors, all degrees offered by the University of Montana.

If you want to see something sad, look at how few articles MSU athletics does about football players graduating, or attending commencement. There are 3 in last 15 years.

During the Rob Ass era, where the Cats were good but never great, I’d have laughed at Cat fans who coped with the devastating end of their season by offering triumphant articles on their graduates.

Do you know what is really sad? What you are doing right now. If you have time, you should look back at how many Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan, etc, players had articles written about them from their local news when they graduated.

I didn’t compare the University of Montana to Ohio State. Bobby did after the Cat Griz 1.0. It’s been awesome ever since he did. God bless you.

 

[griz4life]

I think it matters very little what degree programs either college offers as far as recruiting athletes. You could pole them and I am sure I would be correct.

You cannot pole the athletes. That's inappropriate touching even if its consensual.

 

[oldngrizzly]

You cannot pole the athletes. That's inappropriate touching even if its consensual.

it would all depend if they were forestry majors

 

[Cat/Griz Grad]

I try to look at it from the standpoint of where would I rather play football. I have a degree from each school and could have gotten either degree from either school, so that doesn’t really matter. If I was being recruited by both schools I would more than likely choose MSU because they rely a lot less on the portal. They develop kids so they are ready to step in and play as juniors and seniors - earlier of course if talented enough. Not that UM doesn’t do the same. They do. It’s just that when UM brings in 25 or so transfers that are generally older kids ready to play, what does that do to the Montana kids who had just made the two deep? Now they may get bumped down. And the same thing the next year. That would suck. That has to affect recruiting in state. MSU does bring in some transfers every year but significantly less than UM.

 

[Larry71]

That's not how any of this works. State universities were assigned mechanical arts colleges 130 years ago under the Morrill Act.


But more to the point, how many engineering majors are on the MSU football team? Taking a casual glance, out of 99 players on the MSU football roster, eight student athletes were majoring in engineering.
But... but engineering is an adjective at MSU. One of the eight graduated this fall with a degree in family engineering, which might help with household financial risk, but isn't real engineering.
Touchdown Tommy has a degree in financial engineering, which is math intense, but again not engineering.

There were 14 business majors on the team. Montana also has a great business school.
There were two marketing majors. Again, Montana great program.
There were two HHP majors. Again, Montana same.
Psychology, two. Montanna same.
Elementary ed, one. Montana not just the same, better.

Also, a F*k ton of players with no declared major. You know. One of the quips by the Yale coach after the MSU game was that his players were all on academic scholarships, not athletic, they all had finals to take when they got home. They were real students, which hit the mark when so many MSU players can't even list a major. His point wasn't that MSU is a crappy school, but rather his athletes hung with the bobcats while still managing to be students at a high level.

There was one out of six 2024 fall football graduates at MSU with an engineering degree unless you count Touchdown Tommy's financial engineering degree. The rest are finance, marketing and philosophy majors, all degrees offered by the University of Montana.

If you want to see something sad, look at how few articles MSU athletics does about football players graduating, or attending commencement. There are 3 in last 15 years.

Thank you for an excellent review of what really goes on with MSU football players' studies!

 

[HikeGlacier]

Thank you for an excellent review of what really goes on with MSU football players' studies!

So, this would seem to contradict the argument that the Cats are winning in-state recruiting because of the degrees they offer.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Montana has plenty of STEM options as well that need to be emphasized. Especially the cybersecurity program. I would argue that the biology, chemistry, physics, forestry, environmental science, etc. are STEM degrees. All of these are science degrees. The pre-med program is fantastic and has crazy good placement in medical schools.
The more liberal arts stuff that everyone dumps on are gateways to so many more things.

One thing that needs to be emphasized is the career pathways that the degrees offer. For example, a geography degree with an emphasis in urban planning opens the door to emergency management careers and public policy and government jobs. Environmental science opens the door to field research, industrial hygiene/safety, geotechnical jobs, and hazardous materials management (to name a few).

One of the biggest complaints I get from new grads (regardless of school) is that nobody really talks about what you can do with a degree once earned in a meaningful way. I think showing pathways and how careers can progress is super important in showing value out in the world.

Cyber Security & Data Analytics...those are degrees UM should both offer and promote. Just about guarantee yourself a nice paying job upon graduation.

 

[UncleRico]

Cyber Security & Data Analytics...those are degrees UM should both offer and promote. Just about guarantee yourself a nic

My son went through the MS Data Science Program at UM. He’s had pretty incredible opportunities.

 

[AZGrizFan]

My son went through the MS Data Science Program at UM. He’s had pretty incredible opportunities.

Yup. Can't get enough of them in my industry (banking). Like trying to find a unicorn.

While it used to be all about ball bearings, now it's all about data-driven decisions and data analytics.

 

[5280Griz]

Most college football players are a natural fit for careers in business and sales. UM’s business school is better and offers better degrees for careers in those fields than MSU.

 

[UncleRico]

Most college football players are a natural fit for careers in business and sales. UM’s business school is better and offers better degrees for careers in those

Look at some of the Griz greats and what they are doing. Vince Huntsberger is a surgeon. Josh Brannon has his PhD and has a successful innovative veterinary company. Those are just a couple examples.If you are a football player it doesn’t define what your academic strengths are. Most on here probably played high school football but the guys that played for Griz and Cats were the best athletes we all played with. And most had to be pretty disciplined to go 4 years balancing school with football. That’s why they are some of our best high school teachers, coaches and administrators, business leaders, doctors, engineers? lawyers etc.