Defensive Scheme

[5280Griz]

I think we should consider switching to a 4-2-5 from the 3-3-5. The 4-2-5 will be better against downhill gap run teams like MSU. This will give us 2 real defensive ends to anchor C-gaps, defensive tackles that can dent double teams and allow our linebackers to read cleaner pictures. This will allow us to spill or box constantly, keep safeties out of constant run support and reduce the 5-7 yard body blow rushes. We would also get more consistent pass rush without blitzing. The 4-2-5 will allow the Griz to win with true edge rushers, rush four and still keep a 2 high shell and disguise coverage without giving up leverage. This means we will have fewer gamble pressures on 3rd and medium, fewer voids behind blitzes and more takeaway opportunities or forced throws. The 4-2-5 will also help against RPO and perimeter screen game. A lot of teams in our conference spam glance RPO, bubble/smoke screens and quick perimeter attachments. In the 3-3-5 overhangs can get trapped between C-gap fits and perimeter bubbles. The 4-2-5 nickel plays force/flat more aggressively, lets the defensive ends handle the C-gap instead of hybrids and keeps leverage on bubbles without rolling safeties down. This will give us better pursuit angles, fewer free access throws to space and less conflict on overhang players. This defensive scheme fits our typical personnel because we typically have solid defensive end/edge type players and physical nickel style defensive backs/downhill linebackers. The 4-2-5 will also allow a rotation on the defensive line to keep our guys fresh, establish clearer roles for the front 6 and have less reliance on disguise.

 

[kemajic]

New Mexico and Eck's 4-2-5 is currently in a position to beat Minnesota in the Guaranteed Rate Bowl. Something

But they didn't.

 

[5280Griz]

But they didn't.

The Guaranteed Rate Bowl has to be one of the stupidest FBS toilet bowls. It is played in a baseball stadium. Why I do not know. There is a beautiful football stadium 30 mins down I10 and 101 in Glendale. The Cardinals have no more home games and the Fiesta Bowl isn’t until January 8th.

 

[mthoopsfan]

100%. This is the perfect seat. You everything.

It’s seating for poor people and people who don’t want to see half the game.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Your posts make it clear you know nothing about State Farm Stadium. I was there when Phil Dawson hit a 57 yard walk off, the longest kick of his at that point 19 year NFL career. I would have not had the same amazing view and experience after it went in from the 50 yard line. It is clear you never have and never will experience all time moments in that stadium like I have and you are clueless about State Farm Stadium.

I have been to many games in that stadium. But I buy good seats.

 

[Ursus Horriblis]

The way Flores teaches it, definitely. He gives his guys a lot of room to make decisions post-snap within the rules of the defense. But it doesn't have to be that complicated.

Watch Ryan Hodges, DC for Ferris State explain the 61 -

GrizMN:

I was hoping the folks wanting a scheme change would watch your video on the 6-1 defense here presented by Coach Hodges. Notice how the under weight, hybrid players shut down the run? Thanks again for posting this instructive video.

 

[GriznMN]

I think we should consider switching to a 4-2-5 from the 3-3-5. The 4-2-5 will be better against downhill gap run teams like MSU. This will give us 2 real defensive ends to anchor C-gaps, defensive tackles that can dent double teams and allow our linebackers to read cleaner pictures. This will allow us to spill or box constantly, keep safeties out of constant run support and reduce the 5-7 yard body blow rushes. We would also get more consistent pass rush without blitzing. The 4-2-5 will allow the Griz to win with true edge rushers, rush four and still keep a 2 high shell and disguise coverage without giving up leverage. This means we will have fewer gamble pressures on 3rd and medium, fewer voids behind blitzes and more takeaway opportunities or forced throws. The 4-2-5 will also help against RPO and perimeter screen game. A lot of teams in our conference spam glance RPO, bubble/smoke screens and quick perimeter attachments. In the 3-3-5 overhangs can get trapped between C-gap fits and perimeter bubbles. The 4-2-5 nickel plays force/flat more aggressively, lets the defensive ends handle the C-gap instead of hybrids and keeps leverage on bubbles without rolling safeties down. This will give us better pursuit angles, fewer free access throws to space and less conflict on overhang players. This defensive scheme fits our typical personnel because we typically have solid defensive end/edge type players and physical nickel style defensive backs/downhill linebackers. The 4-2-5 will also allow a rotation on the defensive line to keep our guys fresh, establish clearer roles for the front 6 and have less reliance on disguise.

This is one of the best posts about defensive structure and the reasoning to go to the 4-2-5 I have seen on this board and with the personnel we have, making the change wouldn't be that difficult. Great job 5280Griz. I'm glad you never played the game and know nothing about football.

My only suggestions to add: 1.) we must have two legit 3-technique guys, 2.)two nickels who can tackle like LBs and 3.) develop, within the 4-2-5, a way to stop QB runs.

 

[GriznMN]

GrizMN:

I was hoping the folks wanting a scheme change would watch your video on the 6-1 defense here presented by Coach Hodges. Notice how the under weight, hybrid players shut down the run? Thanks again for posting this instructive video.

Personally, rather than making a change at the head coaching position, I suggest we bring in a new defensive coordinator like Ryan Hodges and have our current DCs either become assistant DCs and position coaches or just position coaches. Then Bobby's got to get out of the way and let the new DC do their thing and focus on special teams. Our special teams this year had many glaring examples of ineptness.

 

[Ursus Horriblis]

Personally, rather than making a change at the head coaching position, I suggest we bring in a new defensive coordinator like Ryan Hodges and have our current DCs either become assistant DCs and position coaches or just position coaches. Then Bobby's got to get out of the way and let the new DC do their thing and focus on special teams. Our special teams this year had many glaring examples of ineptness.

GrizMN:

I am for any positive recommendations. I think, based on the success of Ferris State, that Hodges is a very good coach. The video you provided by Hodges is excellent!

 

[mthoopsfan]

This is one of the best posts about defensive structure and the reasoning to go to the 4-2-5 I have seen on this board and with the personnel we have, making the change wouldn't be that difficult. Great job 5280Griz. I'm glad you never played the game and know nothing about football.

My only suggestions to add: 1.) we must have two legit 3-technique guys, 2.)two nickels who can tackle like LBs and 3.) develop, within the 4-2-5, a way to stop QB runs.

Except most teams UM plays against and in conference run RPO and spread. The post you liked was out to lunch.

 

[GriznMN]

GrizMN:

I am for any positive recommendations. I think, based on the success of Ferris State, that Hodges is a very good coach. The video you provided by Hodges is excellent!

I like the 61 also and with a LB like Wing, I think it would shine. The one thing that gave me caution is the statement by Hodges that his one LB was in the system for 6 years and it allowed him to learn the system and brought them a national championship. I'm not sure if that means it takes a long time to learn the system or if it means the LB was really good because he was able to develop physically through strength and conditioning to fit the scheme. He also mentioned there were two gap guys in the scheme and that's reminiscent of the 3-3-5.

With the 61, it would be a transition and we would likely take a step back. With the 4-2-5, it would be a more natural transition for most guys, be more gap sound, and would allow guys to play faster.

Whatever, we do, we have to get away from the 3-3-5.

 

[GriznMN]

Except most teams UM plays against and in conference run RPO and spread. The post you liked was out to lunch.

Tell me you know nothing about football without telling me you know nothing about football.

 

[5280Griz]

Except most teams UM plays against and in conference run RPO and spread. The post you liked was out to lunch.

I went over how the 4-2-5 will be better against RPO. Eastern Washington and Portland State are the teams running spread in our conference. I am more concerned about beating downhill run teams like MSU than the teams running spread in our conference, which are mostly bottom feeders.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I went over how the 4-2-5 will be better against RPO. Eastern Washington and Portland State are the teams running spread in our conference. I am more concerned about beating downhill run teams like MSU than the teams running spread in our conference, which are mostly bottom feeders.

You don’t understand defensive schemes. Your posts are silly.

 

[Ursus Horriblis]

I like the 61 also and with a LB like Wing, I think it would shine. The one thing that gave me caution is the statement by Hodges that his one LB was in the system for 6 years and it allowed him to learn the system and brought them a national championship. I'm not sure if that means it takes a long time to learn the system or if it means the LB was really good because he was able to develop physically through strength and conditioning to fit the scheme. He also mentioned there were two gap guys in the scheme and that's reminiscent of the 3-3-5.

With the 61, it would be a transition and we would likely take a step back. With the 4-2-5, it would be a more natural transition for most guys, be more gap sound, and would allow guys to play faster.

Whatever, we do, we have to get away from the 3-3-5.

I get what you’re putting down. 4-2-5 reminds me of how Flores runs “ base” on occasion. Two edge; two down; two LBs, and five dbs. Having a big DB like Metellus allows the defense to use him as a line backer similar to a 4-3 because of his size and speed or, put him in coverage. I notice that the 6-1 they use seems like an easy option out of the 4-2-5…

 

[GriznMN]

I get what you’re putting down. 4-2-5 reminds me of how Flores runs “ base” on occasion. Two edge; two down; two LBs, and five dbs. Having a big DB like Metellus allows the defense to use him as a line backer similar to a 4-3 because of his size and speed or, put him in coverage. I notice that the 6-1 they use seems like an easy option out of the 4-2-5…

agree.

 

[Skookum-Jim]

I went over how the 4-2-5 will be better against RPO. Eastern Washington and Portland State are the teams running spread in our conference. I am more concerned about beating downhill run teams like MSU than the teams running spread in our conference, which are mostly bottom feeders.

The reason that on paper the 4-2 front is good against the RPO is because it's generally a gap assignment defense and the 3-3 front generally is not. But the griz front this year was great against the run, not so great against the spread.

 

[oldrunner]

The reason that on paper the 4-2 front is good against the RPO is because it's generally a gap assignment defense and the 3-3 front generally is not. But the griz front this year was great against the run, not so great against the spread.

To me, it's more about the personnel than it is about how it looks before the snap of the ball. The same can be said about lining up in the gaps, the gaps can change quickly after the snap. The good advantage that the D-line has, is that they can be moving at and before the snap. LBs can be even more mobile than the DLs. Numbers only matter in pass rushing and filling the gaps created by the OL.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I'm fine sticking with what Georgia does.

 

[BDizzle]

I just got done playing Madden 2004 on the ps2. Ran a nickel 3-3-5 with the 49ers. Dominated my opposition and gave up negative yards rushing. Guys, it can work!