Question for the Griz fans

[mthoopsfan]

This is literally the answer and i dont understand why this isnt more supported in this forum. In the 2010s MSU had a big upswing in enrollment, they had more money coming in and found a great coach (choate) that ran with the resources and when he left, vigen took over a great program and has continued to push its success. During that same time, UM school and football team was having a bad downturn. And when hauck finally came back, he had to rebuild what was lost with expiremental and place-filler coaches. UM lost a lot of its instate pipeline before haucks return. Hauck rebuilt the program rather quickly but has to lean on transfers more to since those in state pipelines to UM arent what they once were. Its honestly just a blessing both programs are on top of the FCS. Anyone who thinks its deeper than that doesnt understand college programs. Essentially, UM just had a more recent complete rebuild than msu has.

Very good post. I agree completely. Keep
posting.

 

[GriznMN]

What? You can get an MBA at MSU. Now you are comparing graduate degrees to bachelor degrees. There isn't a degree at UM aside from physics and math with more math than a financial engineering degree. It's way harder to achieve than anything in the business department. Most liars come from the business department not the engineering department. Bernie Madoff was certainly not an engineer.

Bernie Madoff had financial engineers working for him.

 

[Walkon79]

Yeah, that's why, Genius, our QB, not yours, is a high-school kid turned starter and yours is a well-traveled portal transfer, and so is our starting RB, who has outperformed both your transfer portal RB and the Preseason Big Sky MVP who has--at least this year based on his preseason accolades--been a flop. !!!

As for the game, we came in having played 12 straight games with no bye, your Shi__y Kitties had only played 5 or 6 in a row AFTER your bye. Football is kinda brutal and it's unheard of for college, CFL or NFL teams to play 12 consecutive games !!!

That “flop” sure did shut the door on Saturday, didn’t he? I thought he was the best player on the field in the 4th.

 

[rocklobster]

Bernie Madoff had financial engineers working for him.

And he was honest, dammit. Just misunderstood. Misunderstood the legality of what to do with his financial engineering degree.

 

[Skookum-Jim]

And he was honest, dammit. Just misunderstood. Misunderstood the legality of what to do with his financial engineering degree.

He had tons of people working for him. He may have had some competent mathematicians working for him.
Just understand that when people flunk out of engineering school they go to business school. It goes from what you know as an engineer in the work force to who you know in business school.

 

[Fahque]

I never said the griz aren’t good. They are the 3 seed and I’m not excited to possibly play them again. The griz don’t keep it close without Wortham, multiple OL transfers, Bohannon, Tolbert, Peck, Wing, Otlewski, etc. I have no issues with transfers but it is clear one team relies on transfers and the other has developed high schoolers to create great depth.

So we don't keep it close without the players who play on the team? Sound logic

 

[mthoopsfan]

So we don't keep it close without the players who play on the team? Sound logic

Money is a football idiot.

 

[grizfnz]

He had tons of people working for him. He may have had some competent mathematicians working for him.
Just understand that when people flunk out of engineering school they go to business school. It goes from what you know as an engineer in the work force to who you know in business school.

And when people flunk out at Tech they go to msu.

 

[Grizfrom68]

The proper measurement is number of times in the championship game, not wins. Or, put another way, number of semi-final wins. The Griz must have 7 semi-final wins. How many do the Cats have?

The Griz have 8 1AA/FCS Championship appearances:
Reed - 1
Dennehy - 1
Glenn - 2
Hauck -4

Cats have 3 1AA/FCS appearances:
Arnold - 1
Vigen - 2

Bobby’s first 5 years and Vigen’s first 5 years as head coach are eerily similar.

They both came into similar situations as well.

I think Bobby has done a better job of coaching in his 2nd tenure at Montana than his first tenure.

He had to bring back the swagger of Montana Football and with the changes in college football the Big Sky is more competitive than it was in his first tenure.

 

[mthoopsfan]

The Griz have 8 1AA/FCS Championship appearances:
Reed - 1
Dennehy - 1
Glenn - 2
Hauck -4

Cats have 3 1AA/FCS appearances:
Arnold - 1
Vigen - 2

Bobby’s first 5 years and Vigen’s first 5 years as head coach are eerily similar.

They both came into similar situations as well.

I think Bobby has done a better job of coaching in his 2nd tenure at Montana than his first tenure.

He had to bring back the swagger of Montana Football and with the changes in college football the Big Sky is more competitive than it was in his first tenure.

Thx. Awesome report. Keep
Posting.

 

[Ursa Major]

Money is an idiot.

FIFY

 

[Grizfrom68]

Great post. I started as an engineering major at MSU, and hated it. Graduated with a doctorate from UM, make twice what I would’ve made as an engineer and felt far more at home on campus and in Missoula than I did in Bozeman. That’s now more true than ever as Bozeman in no way resembles Montana anymore. Now with new programs, R1 designation, facilities investment and a direction, the core of STEM is as good as Bozeman, and we excel in areas they offer such as business. We lack engineering, but if you truly want to be an engineer you got to tech anyways. UM needs to invest in reframing this image at the high school level.

Wolf777,
I am not disagreeing with anything in your post. I am just wondering how many people also think that Missoula also no longer resembles Montana. I have lived here for a few years, 80 and 2 months to be exact. I lived in Missoula for over half my life. I don’t think that either town truly resembles Montana anymore. I now live in Bigfork and the Flathead Valley, most of the year, is also no longer a true reflection of the Montana we all grew up in or remember. I don’t know your age, but by your statement of an obtaining a doctorate, congratulations by the way, and earning more than twice as an engineer that you are at least in your 40’s.

You did not state, in this post, if you are a native Montanan, and regardless that is fine.

Those three towns/areas no longer resemble Montana that we knew. In the 80’s we as Montanans said similar things about Billings. You really don’t hear that anymore about Billings.

I’m not trying to start a debate, there are several things about our great state that no longer resembles what it once was, and unfortunately it will never resemble what we once knew.

 

[Wolf777]

Wolf777,
I am not disagreeing with anything in your post. I am just wondering how many people also think that Missoula also no longer resembles Montana. I have lived here for a few years, 80 and 2 months to be exact. I lived in Missoula for over half my life. I don’t think that either town truly resembles Montana anymore. I now live in Bigfork and the Flathead Valley, most of the year, is also no longer a true reflection of the Montana we all grew up in or remember. I don’t know your age, but by your statement of an obtaining a doctorate, congratulations by the way, and earning more than twice as an engineer that you are at least in your 40’s.

You did not state, in this post, if you are a native Montanan, and regardless that is fine.

Those three towns/areas no longer resemble Montana that we knew. In the 80’s we as Montanans said similar things about Billings. You really don’t hear that anymore about Billings.

I’m not trying to start a debate, there are several things about our great state that no longer resembles what it once was, and unfortunately it will never resemble what we once knew.

Fair assessment. I don’t feel at all like you sharing your experience is starting a debate. I’m pushing 40 and am native to the state, born here and will die here God willing. Multiple generations in my family before me are from the hi-line, central and western Montana. I’m from Billings originally and it’s had plenty of growing pains, especially once it hit the 100,000 mark they seemed to really pop up. I’m sure Missoula has changed, it has in the 10-15 years I’ve been here. Down the Bitterroot is where the demographic really changed drastically in the last decade that I’ve noticed.

I always found the Gallatin Valley to be very snobbish when I was there even 20 years ago. Didn’t feel that people treated others well or acted similar to what I was accustomed to. It felt more like the rule than the exception as well. I always felt this had more to do with the population that resided more from 4 corners through the Gallatin Gateway and south to Big Sky.

What I see now with the airport and infrastructure in that valley is set up to cater to a class and demographic from out of state and capitalize on the money they can bring in. I’ve not seen so many luxury SUV’s and faux cowboys in my life as when we drive through or have flown out of Bozeman. There’s a few around Missoula for sure, but it’s just unbelievable experiencing it over there now versus 20 years ago. It’s exponentially yuppier.

I was on a hunting trip over to Eastern Montana 2 years ago and developed a slow leak in a truck tire that ended up being a belt separation while on my way home to Missoula. Had to use a tire shop as it was a weekend and the only show in town and it was snowing to beat hell. Most of those around me were in there with a fake western style and hats or boots that didn’t have a spec of dirt, except a couple of local ranchers from over by 3 Forks. 4 of us were waiting in line and and a white luxury car pulled up right in front of the door where there wasn’t a parking spot. A woman dressed in high heeled type suede boots with luxury purse, hat, and matching coat stormed in, bypassed the line and put her bag on the counter with a thump and started in how she had just moved here and couldn’t get up her driveway. The guy tried to usher her to the back of the line and the scene became animated and she couldn’t understand why this wasn’t cause for concern for anyone in the store or why she should have to wait in line with the commoners. The few ranchers and myself had a good laugh watching it unfold and continue. I’ve had plenty of similar experiences as well, but it seems to be the standard when I’ve had to go over there in the last 5-10 years, where I at least had some decent interactions 20 years ago. This probably isn’t unique as there was a lot of cash buyers in Covid that bought ranchettes around the state sight unseen without any understanding of what it takes to live in the inclement weather with minimal resources and infrastructure.

I used to fish a lot on the Gallatin and the last time I went past I couldn’t believe the commercialization of the area, from billboards to businesses. Also, many of the businesses in the area seem to be geared toward the elites in their demographic as well when you look at the many name brand outdoor gear companies that are headquartered or have store fronts there, but nowhere else in the state.

 

[Grizfrom68]

Fair assessment. I don’t feel at all like you sharing your experience is starting a debate. I’m pushing 40 and am native to the state, born here and will die here God willing. Multiple generations in my family before me are from the hi-line, central and western Montana. I’m from Billings originally and it’s had plenty of growing pains, especially once it hit the 100,000 mark they seemed to really pop up. I’m sure Missoula has changed, it has in the 10-15 years I’ve been here. Down the Bitterroot is where the demographic really changed drastically in the last decade that I’ve noticed.

I always found the Gallatin Valley to be very snobbish when I was there even 20 years ago. Didn’t feel that people treated others well or acted similar to what I was accustomed to. It felt more like the rule than the exception as well. I always felt this had more to do with the population that resided more from 4 corners through the Gallatin Gateway and south to Big Sky.

What I see now with the airport and infrastructure in that valley is set up to cater to a class and demographic from out of state and capitalize on the money they can bring in. I’ve not seen so many luxury SUV’s and faux cowboys in my life as when we drive through or have flown out of Bozeman. There’s a few around Missoula for sure, but it’s just unbelievable experiencing it over there now versus 20 years ago. It’s exponentially yuppier.

I was on a hunting trip over to Eastern Montana 2 years ago and developed a slow leak in a truck tire that ended up being a belt separation while on my way home to Missoula. Had to use a tire shop as it was a weekend and the only show in town and it was snowing to beat hell. Most of those around me were in there with a fake western style and hats or boots that didn’t have a spec of dirt, except a couple of local ranchers from over by 3 Forks. 4 of us were waiting in line and and a white luxury car pulled up right in front of the door where there wasn’t a parking spot. A woman dressed in high heeled type suede boots with luxury purse, hat, and matching coat stormed in, bypassed the line and put her bag on the counter with a thump and started in how she had just moved here and couldn’t get up her driveway. The guy tried to usher her to the back of the line and the scene became animated and she couldn’t understand why this wasn’t cause for concern for anyone in the store or why she should have to wait in line with the commoners. The few ranchers and myself had a good laugh watching it unfold and continue. I’ve had plenty of similar experiences as well, but it seems to be the standard when I’ve had to go over there in the last 5-10 years, where I at least had some decent interactions 20 years ago. This probably isn’t unique as there was a lot of cash buyers in Covid that bought ranchettes around the state sight unseen without any understanding of what it takes to live in the inclement weather with minimal resources and infrastructure.

I used to fish a lot on the Gallatin and the last time I went past I couldn’t believe the commercialization of the area, from billboards to businesses. Also, many of the businesses in the area seem to be geared toward the elites in their demographic as well when you look at the many name brand outdoor gear companies that are headquartered or have store fronts there, but nowhere else in the state.

Young man, I agree with your assessment wholeheartedly.

At this point in time the only thing I am upset about is that by reading your post I would have bet two bits that you were at least 42.

You stated that you are pushing 40, so my next attempt at your age is 38, probably born in the spring so you will be 39 after winter. As you well know we are still in the fall, so hopefully it gets cold this winter and changes the unwanted occupation of people like you mentioned that want to change our state.

If people want to move here and adapt to the culture, great. I am to old for people that move in to our state and want us to change.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Would love to see a comparison for the last couple of years. 2025 starters that transferred within the last few years (without looking it up). Eckert, Lamson, Davis, and Long (could add Meredith). Feel free to fact check. Davis was brought in after Ifanse left, Lamson after Tommy graduated, Long after McCullouch graduated and other Wr transferred, Eckert after Valdez transferred, Meredith after our whole secondary graduated or transferred.

just because they're not starters doesn't mean they're not transfrs.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Fair assessment. I don’t feel at all like you sharing your experience is starting a debate. I’m pushing 40 and am native to the state, born here and will die here God willing. Multiple generations in my family before me are from the hi-line, central and western Montana. I’m from Billings originally and it’s had plenty of growing pains, especially once it hit the 100,000 mark they seemed to really pop up. I’m sure Missoula has changed, it has in the 10-15 years I’ve been here. Down the Bitterroot is where the demographic really changed drastically in the last decade that I’ve noticed.

I always found the Gallatin Valley to be very snobbish when I was there even 20 years ago. Didn’t feel that people treated others well or acted similar to what I was accustomed to. It felt more like the rule than the exception as well. I always felt this had more to do with the population that resided more from 4 corners through the Gallatin Gateway and south to Big Sky.

What I see now with the airport and infrastructure in that valley is set up to cater to a class and demographic from out of state and capitalize on the money they can bring in. I’ve not seen so many luxury SUV’s and faux cowboys in my life as when we drive through or have flown out of Bozeman. There’s a few around Missoula for sure, but it’s just unbelievable experiencing it over there now versus 20 years ago. It’s exponentially yuppier.

I was on a hunting trip over to Eastern Montana 2 years ago and developed a slow leak in a truck tire that ended up being a belt separation while on my way home to Missoula. Had to use a tire shop as it was a weekend and the only show in town and it was snowing to beat hell. Most of those around me were in there with a fake western style and hats or boots that didn’t have a spec of dirt, except a couple of local ranchers from over by 3 Forks. 4 of us were waiting in line and and a white luxury car pulled up right in front of the door where there wasn’t a parking spot. A woman dressed in high heeled type suede boots with luxury purse, hat, and matching coat stormed in, bypassed the line and put her bag on the counter with a thump and started in how she had just moved here and couldn’t get up her driveway. The guy tried to usher her to the back of the line and the scene became animated and she couldn’t understand why this wasn’t cause for concern for anyone in the store or why she should have to wait in line with the commoners. The few ranchers and myself had a good laugh watching it unfold and continue. I’ve had plenty of similar experiences as well, but it seems to be the standard when I’ve had to go over there in the last 5-10 years, where I at least had some decent interactions 20 years ago. This probably isn’t unique as there was a lot of cash buyers in Covid that bought ranchettes around the state sight unseen without any understanding of what it takes to live in the inclement weather with minimal resources and infrastructure.

I used to fish a lot on the Gallatin and the last time I went past I couldn’t believe the commercialization of the area, from billboards to businesses. Also, many of the businesses in the area seem to be geared toward the elites in their demographic as well when you look at the many name brand outdoor gear companies that are headquartered or have store fronts there, but nowhere else in the state.

WTF? You answered your own post saying you were 80+ with a post saying you were 40. Forget to log out of the burner account first?

 

[AZGrizFan]

Genuine questions for the knowledgeable fans (hoops please don’t start any arguments). What is the difference between the cats and griz. Is it recruiting/evaluation, strength/conditioning, development, coaching, scheme, a combination, or other? Cats lead 7-3 in the last 10 meetings and clearly things are swinging in that direction as of late.

In my opinion I think the way the programs are ran is completely different. Vigen recruits mainly high schools guys and develops them into all-conference guys then fills in gaps with transfers (which has been very successful). BH seems to prioritize transfers year after year as he typically has many players to replace and apparently doesn’t think the younger guys are ready. Bobby and co have been hit or miss with transfers. Wortham, McDowell, Tolbert, Wing, etc. have been fantastic All-American level dudes but then there have been some misses. I think this isn’t the worst strategy as many high level programs do this, but what happens when thing slip and players stop wanting to transfer? Would it be a bad idea to hit the reset button and offer every good high school kid in the region and roll the red carpet out to them in hopes of trying to match what MSU, NDSU, and SDSU do? Is it coaching? The gris straight up have the most talented roster in the FCS yet they can’t seem to climb to the top, but hell neither can the cats.

The difference between the 'Scats and the Griz is a lucky bounce on a tipped pass.

Period.

All the rest is just bullshit cannon fodder.

And I wouldn't call 11-1 "slipping".

 

[Grizfrom68]

WTF? You answered your own post saying you were 80+ with a post saying you were 40. Forget to log out of the burner account first?

I’m not tracking on where you think I said that I was 40. I guess I could have possibly responded to my post to Wolf777’s original post. Looking at my screen on my computer though I am pretty certain that I replied to his reply.

 

[Grizfrom68]

WTF? You answered your own post saying you were 80+ with a post saying you were 40. Forget to log out of the

I went back through the chain and I am pretty certain that you are the one that is in the wrong.

I did ask Wolf777 his age for clarification, but I don’t see where I replied to myself.

I know my wife feels that she has to respond to herself when I am watching football and do not answer her. That happens when you have been married for 59 years though.

You didn’t even give me the courtesy of a hug before you tried to **** me.

 

[kemajic]

Fair assessment. I don’t feel at all like you sharing your experience is starting a debate. I’m pushing 40 and am native to the state, born here and will die here God willing. Multiple generations in my family before me are from the hi-line, central and western Montana. I’m from Billings originally and it’s had plenty of growing pains, especially once it hit the 100,000 mark they seemed to really pop up. I’m sure Missoula has changed, it has in the 10-15 years I’ve been here. Down the Bitterroot is where the demographic really changed drastically in the last decade that I’ve noticed.

I always found the Gallatin Valley to be very snobbish when I was there even 20 years ago. Didn’t feel that people treated others well or acted similar to what I was accustomed to. It felt more like the rule than the exception as well. I always felt this had more to do with the population that resided more from 4 corners through the Gallatin Gateway and south to Big Sky.

What I see now with the airport and infrastructure in that valley is set up to cater to a class and demographic from out of state and capitalize on the money they can bring in. I’ve not seen so many luxury SUV’s and faux cowboys in my life as when we drive through or have flown out of Bozeman. There’s a few around Missoula for sure, but it’s just unbelievable experiencing it over there now versus 20 years ago. It’s exponentially yuppier.

I was on a hunting trip over to Eastern Montana 2 years ago and developed a slow leak in a truck tire that ended up being a belt separation while on my way home to Missoula. Had to use a tire shop as it was a weekend and the only show in town and it was snowing to beat hell. Most of those around me were in there with a fake western style and hats or boots that didn’t have a spec of dirt, except a couple of local ranchers from over by 3 Forks. 4 of us were waiting in line and and a white luxury car pulled up right in front of the door where there wasn’t a parking spot. A woman dressed in high heeled type suede boots with luxury purse, hat, and matching coat stormed in, bypassed the line and put her bag on the counter with a thump and started in how she had just moved here and couldn’t get up her driveway. The guy tried to usher her to the back of the line and the scene became animated and she couldn’t understand why this wasn’t cause for concern for anyone in the store or why she should have to wait in line with the commoners. The few ranchers and myself had a good laugh watching it unfold and continue. I’ve had plenty of similar experiences as well, but it seems to be the standard when I’ve had to go over there in the last 5-10 years, where I at least had some decent interactions 20 years ago. This probably isn’t unique as there was a lot of cash buyers in Covid that bought ranchettes around the state sight unseen without any understanding of what it takes to live in the inclement weather with minimal resources and infrastructure.

I used to fish a lot on the Gallatin and the last time I went past I couldn’t believe the commercialization of the area, from billboards to businesses. Also, many of the businesses in the area seem to be geared toward the elites in their demographic as well when you look at the many name brand outdoor gear companies that are headquartered or have store fronts there, but nowhere else in the state.

Your assessment of Bozeman is spot on, I refuse to stop there even for gas or Whoppers on the way through on Griz game weekends. However, in my experience you underestimate the elitism in Missoula. A few years ago we upgraded our section 222 seats on the 30 to to section 223 on the 50 with access to 323 indoors above. We could not believe the clique of snobs that surrounded us, no cheering, making noise when the opponents had the ball or interacting with obvious "outsiders." After one year we were able to get our 222 seats back and rejoin friends, most of which are from out-of-town like us. This extended to our experience overnighting in Missoula, not only the exorbitant prices but the same elitism. We finally resorted to staying in Anaconda both coming and going and it has been wonderful. A ghost town eager for customers and we are treated like friends. We love getting to the games, but out of town ASAP. We're not fans of what Missoula has become either.