Question for the Griz fans

[Dont Kick 2 Bergen]

Few can and its getting really really old. That program is a unicorn

 

[mthoopsfan]

Probably because Vigen won it last year and they didn't want to award it to the same coach two years in a row.

It doesn’t work that way.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Genuine questions for the knowledgeable fans (hoops please don’t start any arguments). What is the difference between the cats and griz. Is it recruiting/evaluation, strength/conditioning, development, coaching, scheme, a combination, or other? Cats lead 7-3 in the last 10 meetings and clearly things are swinging in that direction as of late.

In my opinion I think the way the programs are ran is completely different. Vigen recruits mainly high schools guys and develops them into all-conference guys then fills in gaps with transfers (which has been very successful). BH seems to prioritize transfers year after year as he typically has many players to replace and apparently doesn’t think the younger guys are ready. Bobby and co have been hit or miss with transfers. Wortham, McDowell, Tolbert, Wing, etc. have been fantastic All-American level dudes but then there have been some misses. I think this isn’t the worst strategy as many high level programs do this, but what happens when thing slip and players stop wanting to transfer? Would it be a bad idea to hit the reset button and offer every good high school kid in the region and roll the red carpet out to them in hopes of trying to match what MSU, NDSU, and SDSU do? Is it coaching? The gris straight up have the most talented roster in the FCS yet they can’t seem to climb to the top, but hell neither can the cats.

Now retired SDSU Coach Stiegelmeir (sp?) said it best when he said if you want to beat Ndsu then you have to become Ndsu.
Vigen is an Ndsu clone. NDSU has based their program on recruiting talented high school players and developing them in the system.
They have an advantage in recruiting now because of their dominance.
Vigen has been more successful than Hauck at recruiting Montana high school talent. Hauck lacks consistent success to recruit well.
I think when a Coach nutures young players along it becomes more of a family like environment. The players react and are comforted by it. Competition is good but not to the point of being concerned about being blind sided by the portal.
Vigen also has the advantage of coaching at a university in a more dynamic and desirable community because of Big Sky Resort and the celebrity it brings. That has an impact on recruits especially young recruits.
There is also the advantage of State being a university of Arts and Sciences vs Liberal Arts. Good paying jobs upon graduation have an impact on recruiting.
Hauck 2.0 is not the same Coach as before and it shows. Before, he was a young driven coach serking success and a potential move up. The current Hauck appears to be more of an administrator and not as driven. Although in some games he shows the passion of the past.
Until the Griz return to the unrelenting drive and passion, the bobcats will.have an advantage, Vigen or otherwise.
My biggest concern right now is what happens when Hauck retires. I see a pending huge problem on the horizon, Robbie Hauck being hired as his successor. Talented or not I think the Griz Hauck dynasty needs to end and nepotism as well.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

And one program has been the only one over the last decade to be able to beat NDSU and SDSU. The other still is punching air trying to make it happen... Does that mean Bobby is doing something right and the Cats are not?

Excellent point. My Lord, the 'Sky is falling'. So. Dakota State earned its FIRST victory ever against Montana two years ago in the Championship game. Montana has crushed their playoff dreams repeatedly. If SDSU visits in a few weeks the Griz will beat them again. North Dakota State has lost to Montana a couple of times this past decade. Has msu ever beaten No Dakota St this century? I believe the answer is no.

The fact is overall, the bubcats are currently on their best run ever. This is their golden age for msu football. Though they've had better stretches versus Montana in the past. In the 10 year stretch starting when I began high school the cats won 8 of 10 that decade. Though keep in mind, shortly thereafter msu lost 16 straight games to the Grizzlies.

So, don't fret too much that Bozeman State has an edge in the past decade. Sh*t happens. This won't last. I'm just grateful the Grizzlies are finally looking like we've recovered from our lost decade. We have done so with a combination of high school athletes and transfers. Percentages will vary from year to year but it will always be a mix. We won't win them all but we will regain the edge over little brother. If losing some to them deeply troubles you, all I can say is seek therapy. Go Griz!

 

[oldngrizzly]

For those of us who know football it's obvious. Not sure why you ask that question other than you don't know , which it seems you have some depth of understanding or you are trying to stir the pot-most likely this.

 

[grizfnz]

Now retired SDSU Coach Stiegelmeir (sp?) said it best when he said if you want to beat Ndsu then you have to become Ndsu.
Vigen is an Ndsu clone. NDSU has based their program on recruiting talented high school players and developing them in the system.
They have an advantage in recruiting now because of their dominance.
Vigen has been more successful than Hauck at recruiting Montana high school talent. Hauck lacks consistent success to recruit well.
I think when a Coach nutures young players along it becomes more of a family like environment. The players react and are comforted by it. Competition is good but not to the point of being concerned about being blind sided by the portal.
Vigen also has the advantage of coaching at a university in a more dynamic and desirable community because of Big Sky Resort and the celebrity it brings. That has an impact on recruits especially young recruits.
There is also the advantage of State being a university of Arts and Sciences vs Liberal Arts. Good paying jobs upon graduation have an impact on recruiting.
Hauck 2.0 is not the same Coach as before and it shows. Before, he was a young driven coach serking success and a potential move up. The current Hauck appears to be more of an administrator and not as driven. Although in some games he shows the passion of the past.
Until the Griz return to the unrelenting drive and passion, the bobcats will.have an advantage, Vigen or otherwise.
My biggest concern right now is what happens when Hauck retires. I see a pending huge problem on the horizon, Robbie Hauck being hired as his successor. Talented or not I think the Griz Hauck dynasty needs to end and nepotism as well.

The narrative that Liberal Arts degrees don’t pay is bullshit and the fact that a Griz fan would help perpetuate it is embarrassing. The Liberal Arts are the basis on which higher education was founded…. math, science, rhetoric, humanities, not fine arts and dance.
The only STEM field they offer in Bozeman compared to UM is engineering (of which they have a dozen or so football players enrolled in). UM has many science, tech and math degrees, they just don’t market a business degree as “ financial engineering” to unsuspecting students who fault to realize they won’t actually have an ABET recognized engineering degree upon graduation.
UM’s pre-medical sciences program has one of the highest med-school acceptance rates in the country and has placed several students in T10 medical schools over the last 5 years. Some of the top people at global leader Nike have UM business degrees. The university now offers a degree in the cutting edge field of cybersecurity,
It’s time for Griz fans and UM alumni to to speak up about the great academic programs offered at UM and put a stop to the fallacy that you can’t make a living off a degree from a Liberal Arts school!!!!

 

[oldngrizzly]

The problem is neither school is at the level it could be do to lack of finances.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I never said the griz aren’t good. They are the 3 seed and I’m not excited to possibly play them again. The griz don’t keep it close without Wortham, multiple OL transfers, Bohannon, Tolbert, Peck, Wing, Otlewski, etc. I have no issues with transfers but it is clear one team relies on transfers and the other has developed high schoolers to create great depth.

I think that the cats had the luxury of many years to be able to afford a down year. And they’ve built good depth over the years doing it.

Bobby has always decided to go heavy on transfers and drop downs. He did it his first stint also. He has always trusted older guys over playing young kids.

Also if he didn’t bring in the guys he did this year we’re probably not a good team. 1-2 bad years in Missoula and you’re being asked to leave.

 

[Wolf777]

The narrative that Liberal Arts degrees don’t pay is bullshit and the fact that a Griz fan would help perpetuate it is embarrassing. The Liberal Arts are the basis on which higher education was founded…. math, science, rhetoric, humanities, not fine arts and dance.
The only STEM field they offer in Bozeman compared to UM is engineering (of which they have a dozen or so football players enrolled in). UM has many science, tech and math degrees, they just don’t market a business degree as “ financial engineering” to unsuspecting students who fault to realize they won’t actually have an ABET recognized engineering degree upon graduation.
UM’s pre-medical sciences program has one of the highest med-school acceptance rates in the country and has placed several students in T10 medical schools over the last 5 years. Some of the top people at global leader Nike have UM business degrees. The university now offers a degree in the cutting edge field of cybersecurity,
It’s time for Griz fans and UM alumni to to speak up about the great academic programs offered at UM and put a stop to the fallacy that you can’t make a living off a degree from a Liberal Arts school!!!!

Great post. I started as an engineering major at MSU, and hated it. Graduated with a doctorate from UM, make twice what I would’ve made as an engineer and felt far more at home on campus and in Missoula than I did in Bozeman. That’s now more true than ever as Bozeman in no way resembles Montana anymore. Now with new programs, R1 designation, facilities investment and a direction, the core of STEM is as good as Bozeman, and we excel in areas they offer such as business. We lack engineering, but if you truly want to be an engineer you got to tech anyways. UM needs to invest in reframing this image at the high school level.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Now retired SDSU Coach Stiegelmeir (sp?) said it best when he said if you want to beat Ndsu then you have to become Ndsu.
Vigen is an Ndsu clone. NDSU has based their program on recruiting talented high school players and developing them in the system.
They have an advantage in recruiting now because of their dominance.
Vigen has been more successful than Hauck at recruiting Montana high school talent. Hauck lacks consistent success to recruit well.
I think when a Coach nutures young players along it becomes more of a family like environment. The players react and are comforted by it. Competition is good but not to the point of being concerned about being blind sided by the portal.
Vigen also has the advantage of coaching at a university in a more dynamic and desirable community because of Big Sky Resort and the celebrity it brings. That has an impact on recruits especially young recruits.
There is also the advantage of State being a university of Arts and Sciences vs Liberal Arts. Good paying jobs upon graduation have an impact on recruiting.
Hauck 2.0 is not the same Coach as before and it shows. Before, he was a young driven coach serking success and a potential move up. The current Hauck appears to be more of an administrator and not as driven. Although in some games he shows the passion of the past.
Until the Griz return to the unrelenting drive and passion, the bobcats will.have an advantage, Vigen or otherwise.
My biggest concern right now is what happens when Hauck retires. I see a pending huge problem on the horizon, Robbie Hauck being hired as his successor. Talented or not I think the Griz Hauck dynasty needs to end and nepotism as well.

When Hauck is done here the program is going to go through a Hard Reset. Which it will probably be better off for. But it is going to be a big big chance across multiple organizations in Missoula.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Now retired SDSU Coach Stiegelmeir (sp?) said it best when he said if you want to beat Ndsu then you have to become Ndsu.
Vigen is an Ndsu clone. NDSU has based their program on recruiting talented high school players and developing them in the system.
They have an advantage in recruiting now because of their dominance.
Vigen has been more successful than Hauck at recruiting Montana high school talent. Hauck lacks consistent success to recruit well.
I think when a Coach nutures young players along it becomes more of a family like environment. The players react and are comforted by it. Competition is good but not to the point of being concerned about being blind sided by the portal.
Vigen also has the advantage of coaching at a university in a more dynamic and desirable community because of Big Sky Resort and the celebrity it brings. That has an impact on recruits especially young recruits.
There is also the advantage of State being a university of Arts and Sciences vs Liberal Arts. Good paying jobs upon graduation have an impact on recruiting.
Hauck 2.0 is not the same Coach as before and it shows. Before, he was a young driven coach serking success and a potential move up. The current Hauck appears to be more of an administrator and not as driven. Although in some games he shows the passion of the past.
Until the Griz return to the unrelenting drive and passion, the bobcats will.have an advantage, Vigen or otherwise.
My biggest concern right now is what happens when Hauck retires. I see a pending huge problem on the horizon, Robbie Hauck being hired as his successor. Talented or not I think the Griz Hauck dynasty needs to end and nepotism as well.

I don't agree.

 

[wbtfg]

It doesn’t work that way.

it looks like Craig Bohl (Vigen's mentor) is the only person who have won the award in consecutive years.

Other Big Sky Conference coaches who have won the award are: Vigen, Troy Taylor, Dan Hawkins, and Joe Glenn.

 

['68griz]

I never said the griz aren’t good. They are the 3 seed and I’m not excited to possibly play them again. The griz don’t keep it close without Wortham, multiple OL transfers, Bohannon, Tolbert, Peck, Wing, Otlewski, etc. I have no issues with transfers but it is clear one team relies on transfers and the other has developed high schoolers to create great depth.

So….

 

[EverettGriz]

Yeah the bills beat the chiefs every regular season, but they don’t care because the chiefs also have 3 Super Bowl wins in 5 appearances (if I recall correctly) in the last 10 or so years…..bills have none.

if we were 2-5 with a few titles I honestly wouldn’t care at all. But we only have one appearance….and yeah we lost it.

So I don’t understand tbe counterpoint

If titles are the measuring stick, how many more do the bubs have?

 

[brewskis]

If titles are the measuring stick, how many more do the bubs have?

Neither team has a title (Vigen has more appearances in less years btw)….we are just stuck with the 2-5 record….

I don’t understand the comparison here. In your analogy you’re claiming we are the chiefs? But with no titles?

 

[grizfnz]

Great post. I started as an engineering major at MSU, and hated it. Graduated with a doctorate from UM, make twice what I would’ve made as an engineer and felt far more at home on campus and in Missoula than I did in Bozeman. That’s now more true than ever as Bozeman in no way resembles Montana anymore. Now with new programs, R1 designation, facilities investment and a direction, the core of STEM is as good as Bozeman, and we excel in areas they offer such as business. We lack engineering, but if you truly want to be an engineer you got to tech anyways. UM needs to invest in reframing this image at the high school level.

My engineering degree is from Tech

 

[Spanky2]

Yes it was a close game but we all know how hard it is to win an away brawl game, the cats were never going to run away with it. You can fact check me as I don’t have as much griz knowledge but this might be the most skilled griz offense in a very long time, maybe ever. I think you are lying to yourself if you don’t think one program has hurdled the other in the past decade. Bobby is doing something wrong and if we wants to hurdle the cats something has to change.

We lost a close game. Both teams have talented players and both teams are well coached. Bobby and staff are doing a great job recruiting. In athletic competition, someone loses.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Neither team has a title (Vigen has more appearances in less years btw)….we are just stuck with the 2-5 record….

I don’t understand the comparison here. In your analogy you’re claiming we are the chiefs? But with no titles?

The proper measurement is number of times in the championship game, not wins. Or, put another way, number of semi-final wins. The Griz must have 7 semi-final wins. How many do the Cats have?

 

[mthoopsfan]

it looks like Craig Bohl (Vigen's mentor) is the only person who have won the award in consecutive years.

Other Big Sky Conference coaches who have won the award are: Vigen, Troy Taylor, Dan Hawkins, and Joe Glenn.

Which proves my point that coaches can win the award 2 years in a row, and aren't disqualified because they won it the prior year.

 

[brewskis]

The proper measurement is number of times in the championship game, not wins. Or, put another way, number of semi-final wins. The Griz must have 7 semi-final wins. How many do the Cats have?

What makes that the proper measurement? Because that’s the sole remaining metric that favors Bobby? (As long as you measure back to 2004 lol)

If you do it since 2020 he loses that matchup