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Is the FCS the new division 2?

F

flowtowngriz

Well-known member
I was listening Grix fan podcast with Sac. ST president. I started thinking about the move up debate and the throw brack uni's. Then it hit me, like a bag of bricks.
In 1990's Idaho, Nevada, and Boise St left a few years before and was the rise of Montana to the nation campions in 95 and became the powerhouse. The ncaa a few years after 95 changed how division 1 football would be named. It changed from division 1-A and Division 1-AA to FBS and FCS.
2000's most of the power house programs move to FBS and division 2 teams moved to the FCS. The Dakotas, most of the BSC and many eastern US teams use to be division 2.

Today: Many schools that moved from division 2 are now moving or looking to become FBS. While the FBS have become the power 4 and the group of 6.
I believe the fcs is now the division 2 of 95 and fbs is 1-A and 1-AA.
 
flowtowngriz said:
I was listening Grix fan podcast with Sac. ST president. I started thinking about the move up debate and the throw brack uni's. Then it hit me, like a bag of bricks.
In 1990's Idaho, Nevada, and Boise St left a few years before and was the rise of Montana to the nation campions in 95 and became the powerhouse. The ncaa a few years after 95 changed how division 1 football would be named. It changed from division 1-A and Division 1-AA to FBS and FCS.
2000's most of the power house programs move to FBS and division 2 teams moved to the FCS. The Dakotas, most of the BSC and many eastern US teams use to be division 2.

Today: Many schools that moved from division 2 are now moving or looking to become FBS. While the FBS have become the power 4 and the group of 6.
I believe the fcs is now the division 2 of 95 and fbs is 1-A and 1-AA.
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Heavy, man.
 
Why would anyone care about something like this? FCS is more affordable and doable for schools. The competition is good. The playoffs are great. Television coverage is increasing.

Would anything change is the name of FCS was changed? If FCS would called "Super Division 1", would anything be different (other than the name)? If FCS was called Division 2, would anything be different (other than the name)? If FCS was called, Great and Fun Division, would anything be different (other than than name)?

My view is that the SS president is a JV president.

Would NSDU and the recent SDSU teams beat all of the FCS (I-AA) schools of the 90's?
 
mthoopsfan said:
Why would anyone care about something like this? FCS is more affordable and doable for schools. The competition is good. The playoffs are great. Television coverage is increasing.

Would anything change is the name of FCS was changed? If FCS would called "Super Division 1", would anything be different (other than the name)? If FCS was called Division 2, would anything be different (other than the name)? If FCS was called, Great and Fun Division, would anything be different (other than than name)?

My view is that the SS president is a JV president.

Would NSDU and the recent SDSU teams beat all of the FCS (I-AA) schools of the 90's?
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Marshall '96 was pretty good.
 
Montana should have gone to FBS 15 years ago when it had the chance. Listened to the Schmidt and Nuanez discussion on it this week and it only reaffirmed what I already knew: Montana whiffed BIGTIME when it elected to stay FCS rather than joining the WAC. Could have and likely would have been in the MWC had we moved up then. Instead we’re stuck making a measly $75k per season from our joke of a TV deal in the big sky, and our enrollment has dropped from 16k to 11k. Meanwhile APP state made the move, has a lucrative $2 million per season tv deal, has increased its student body by 7k and doesn’t have to play northern fucking Colorado every season and play in the same conference as southern utah and Utah tech (formerly Dixie state). FCS is more a joke now than it ever has been, and the self respecting programs are seeking a way up and out of it.

 
hm.grwn.grizfan said:
Montana should have gone to FBS 15 years ago when it had the chance. Listened to the Schmidt and Nuanez discussion on it this week and it only reaffirmed what I already knew: Montana whiffed BIGTIME when it elected to stay FCS rather than joining the WAC. Could have and likely would have been in the MWC had we moved up then. Instead we’re stuck making a measly $75k per season from our joke of a TV deal in the big sky, and our enrollment has dropped from 16k to 11k. Meanwhile APP state made the move, has a lucrative $2 million per season tv deal, has increased its student body by 7k and doesn’t have to play northern fucking Colorado every season and play in the same conference as southern utah and Utah tech (formerly Dixie state). FCS is more a joke now than it ever has been, and the self respecting programs are seeking a way up and out of it.

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Yeah, that's why enrollment is down. The football team didn't move up. Yeah that's it!🙄
 
MikeyGriz said:
Yeah, that's why enrollment is down. The football team didn't move up. Yeah that's it!🙄
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I didn’t say that there was a causal relationship, but app state is a case study for how better exposure can elevate more than just athletics. While UM lost students, APP state gained students, and notably many out of state students. You can attribute at least some of that to their getting more exposure. It was one of the sac state presidents talking points for why he wanted to move up. Better exposure leads to higher enrollment numbers of out of state students. So again, I’m not saying that not moving up is why Montanas enrollment numbers were down, but I am saying that better exposure certainly would have helped bolster enrollment. The TV deals also would have provided at a minimum an extra $10-20 million in revenue. Not moving up caused nothing, but not moving up cost us much
 
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406football said:
Pennington and Moss were a pretty dangerous duo. I don't think any of the Dakota teams could've stopped that offense. I am pretty sure their have been debates and maybe even sim models that predicted Marshall as the best sub division team. It's all subjective.
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Pennington was not the QB in '96. After losing to Montana in '95 as a frosh, they redshirted him in '96 in favor of ringer Eric Kresser, brought in from FL along with Randy Moss from FSU and new HC Bob Pruett. The '96 Marshall team was 15-0, won every game by at least two TDs and produced numerous NFL players.
 
406football said:
Pennington and Moss were a pretty dangerous duo. I don't think any of the Dakota teams could've stopped that offense. I am pretty sure their have been debates and maybe even sim models that predicted Marshall as the best sub division team. It's all subjective.
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That was the most dominant team I have ever seen. There was just no stopping Randy, he did whatever he wanted and Pennington could get the ball to him all over the place. I was too young to be prepared for what we faced in that game, it was soul crushing for Young Elrod.

Interestingly, I was flying back from Salt Lake to Missoula almost 20 years ago and the guy next to me saw my Griz gear and asked about the game. Turns out, he was a student at Marshall that year. We reminisced, and he said he had a few classes. Said Pennington would voluntarily read his own poetry in front of the class for extra credit in English. He said he never saw Moss once, lol.
 
MikeyGriz said:
Yeah, that's why enrollment is down. The football team didn't move up. Yeah that's it!🙄
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That’s not the sole reason but you can’t say that it wouldn’t have affected the enrollment at all. Schmidt is 110% correct in his statement that not moving up has cost the UM millions of dollars. Short sighted thinking back then, if you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
That was the most dominant team I have ever seen. There was just no stopping Randy, he did whatever he wanted and Pennington could get the ball to him all over the place. I was too young to be prepared for what we faced in that game, it was soul crushing for Young Elrod.

Interestingly, I was flying back from Salt Lake to Missoula almost 20 years ago and the guy next to me saw my Griz gear and asked about the game. Turns out, he was a student at Marshall that year. We reminisced, and he said he had a few classes. Said Pennington would voluntarily read his own poetry in front of the class for extra credit in English. He said he never saw Moss once, lol.
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Again, the '96 Marshall QB was Eric Kresser. After the game, we were in a restaurant with family-style seating, occupied by 99% Marshall gear-wearing customers. Late in the dinner, a nice lady across the table from us told us something she said she shouldn't. Marshall had postponed issuing grades until the following week as Randy had not attended a class the whole term.
 
kemajic said:
Again, the '96 Marshall QB was Eric Kresser. After the game, we were in a restaurant with family-style seating, occupied by 99% Marshall gear-wearing customers. Late in the dinner, a nice lady across the table from us told us something she said she shouldn't. Marshall had postponed issuing grades until the following week as Randy had not attended a class the whole term.
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That tracks. Glad to hear there was confirmation on the story I have been telling for years, haha.

Apologies on getting the QB wrong. I was 9 when I watched it, if that makes it more acceptable.
 
HookedonGriz said:
Hundreds of millions
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There are so many assumptions baked into his argument that it makes it hard to even really parse. Would it have been good? Would it have just put an even bigger negative spotlight on Missoula during the era of upheaval and that stupid book? He uses a very specific example in App State, who has regional rivals and a regional conference ready made for them with a deeper recruiting ground.

How did it go for Idaho? Marshall currently has less student enrollment than they did in 1997, when they moved up. It just isn't the magic fix for enrollment that is being suggested.

His TV rights argument is strong.
 
Comparing App State to Montana is a foolish argument. Also, there will be a lot of educational institutions that struggle in coming years. Has anyone been paying attention to the AI articles and predictions? University enrollments are going to be interesting to watch. People need to stop living in the past. The rate of societal change is probably more rapid now than anytime in the past. FCS is exactly where Montana needs to be until the smoke clears and there is a path forward. Do I like it? Possibly not. It doesn’t change the circumstances though and why does everyone point to the successes only? Boise was an anomaly. Idaho could have been as well. Likely not Probably more akin to Montana actually. U of M president is a smart dude and he will exercise the necessary caution.
 
We can distinguish any other move-up story, positive or negative. We are not Idaho, nor App State. It comes down to this for me: There are always a million reasons not to take the boat out.

"Timid". It's a word we use in our line about to whom the pride and tradition of Montana Football will not be entrusted. It's also a word used in a much more famous line in a Teddy Roosevelt speech: ". . . who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
 
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