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It’s time to move up to the FBS the Mountain West preferably.

mthoopsfan said:
Attendance isn’t going up because the team is losing. Yes, winning and the playoffs make for higher attendance. What’s $2500 to a big executive like you.
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You refuse to acknowledge that home games against Wyoming, Nevada, BSU and Utah St. will draw more strongly than games with PSU, UNC, SUU and Sacred Heart, even with increased risk of losses. Fans want to see good football teams in WaGriz and want to see the Griz play up to competition, not down. I don't buy your narrative that it would hurt attendance. I buy the financial argument and the fact that we are not invited, but the attendance risk argument is lame, so quit. Currently, the weakest attendance we see is in the playoffs.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Define "too many". When the preseason debate every year is whether we go 11-0 or 10-1, I'd say we've passed this level of competition by.

I, for one (anecdotal evidence, I know), would make several trips to Missoula a year to watch a higher level of competition. I ain't flying in to watch Central Washington or UNC or PSU or Bryant or Indiana State, etc., etc. Wyoming? Colorado State? Utah State? Oregon State? Nevada? You bet. I'm there in a heartbeat.
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It would be awesome to have Wyoming, Air Force and UNM come to play in Wa-Griz. Also another point that hasn't really been mentioned, garunteed a good number of MWC schools would bring more away fans to our games compared to Big Sky competition, so yet another bonus for attendance.

Idaho, Montana, MSU, NDSU, SDSU and Wyoming is the core of my dream FBS Conference.
 
kemajic said:
You refuse to acknowledge that home games against Wyoming, Nevada, BSU and Utah St. will draw more strongly than games with PSU, UNC, SUU and Sacred Heart, even with increased risk of losses. Fans want to see good football teams in WaGriz and want to see the Griz play up to competition, not down. I don't buy your narrative that it would hurt attendance. I buy the financial argument and the fact that we are not invited, but the attendance risk argument is lame, so quit. Currently, the weakest attendance we see is in the playoffs.
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I don’t refuse to acknowledge anything. I just don’t agree with your view. The stadium is full for every regular season game. Playoff attendance declines for ither reasons. Using your argument, shouldn’t better competition in the playoffs result in strong attendance? Losing multiple more games each year would eventually hurt attendance. Many Griz fans would prefer winning and fighting for playoff seeding over getting beat or pounded at home more often. FBS would also result in fewer regular season home games. And would likely result in some games being at odd times and odd days. This season has potential to be huge fun. Could we get to 10 or 11 home games? Those regional FBS games would add nothing for me this year. USU, Wyo and Nevada have combined formire losses than wins this year. Likely higher ticket prices wouldn’t be welcomed by many either.

Wyo has had one home game this season. Northern Iowa. Wyo has only 5 home games this year. Correct me if I got that wrong. Nevada’s only win is a 3-pt win over Sac State. That’s your idea of exciting home schedules?
 
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mthoopsfan said:
I don’t refuse to acknowledge anything. I just don’t agree with your view. The stadium is full for every regular season game. Playoff attendance declines for ither reasons. Using your argument, shouldn’t better competition in the playoffs result in strong attendance? Losing multiple more games each year would eventually hurt attendance. Many Griz fans would prefer winning and fighting for playoff seeding over getting beat or pounded at home more often. FBS would also result in fewer regular season home games. And would likely result in some games being at odd times and odd days. This season has potential to be huge fun. Could we get to 10 or 11 home games? Those regional FBS games would add nothing for me this year. USU, Wyo and Nevada have combined formire losses than wins this year. Likely higher ticket prices wouldn’t be welcomed by many either.

Wyo has had one home game this season. Northern Iowa. Wyo has only 5 home games this year. Correct me if I got that wrong. Nevada’s only win is a 3-pt win over Sac State. That’s your idea of exciting home schedules?
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The Griz getting pounded at home? Hyperbole while you argue those teams are so poor. Circular argument. Most Griz fans are far less afraid of a loss to a credible foe than you. And appreciate cupcake home games less than you. Do you think the players prefer to play before 2000 at PSU or 4000 at UNC compared to visits to BSU, Wyoming, Nevada or Utah St.? You don't need to fabricate arguments around attendance to defeat move-up arguments, the financials and lack of interest in inviting Montana have that nailed. And argue as you will, home games with Wyo, Nevada, Utah St, and BSU far trump CWU, Sacred Heart, Indiana St and PSU in terms of excitement.

Being a Missoula resident, it's easy for you to dismiss points from distant fans (e.g., AZGrizFan) that require prioritization of attending home games, whether it be cost or travel burden for an aging fan base. I will likely attend half of the 8 home games, missing the lamest. Eventually the sensibility of season tickets may come into question where it would never with better competition coming into WaGriz.

So that makes us distant travelers bad fans, I'm sure. Meanwhile, we're about to leave for Pocatello, where I doubt we'll see you. Same distance for us as Missoula and a far better game to watch than CWU, Sacred Heart, Indiana St or PSU.
 
kemajic said:
The Griz getting pounded at home? Hyperbole while you argue those teams are so poor. Circular argument. Most Griz fans are far less afraid of a loss to a credible foe than you. And appreciate cupcake home games less than you. Do you think the players prefer to play before 2000 at PSU or 4000 at UNC compared to visits to BSU, Wyoming, Nevada or Utah St.? You don't need to fabricate arguments around attendance to defeat move-up arguments, the financials and lack of interest in inviting Montana have that nailed. And argue as you will, home games with Wyo, Nevada, Utah St, and BSU far trump CWU, Sacred Heart, Indiana St and PSU in terms of excitement.

Being a Missoula resident, it's easy for you to dismiss points from distant fans (e.g., AZGrizFan) that require prioritization of attending home games, whether it be cost or travel burden for an aging fan base. I will likely attend half of the 8 home games, missing the lamest. Eventually the sensibility of season tickets may come into question where it would never with better competition coming into WaGriz.

So that makes us distant travelers bad fans, I'm sure. Meanwhile, we're about to leave for Pocatello, where I doubt we'll see you. Same distance for us as Missoula and a far better game to watch than CWU, Sacred Heart, Indiana St or PSU.
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I made no argument that those teams, i.e. the ones you listed, are poor. I didn't even hint that.

I'm not afraid of a loss. I'm concerned about increasing and consistent losing impacting attendance and interest after several years or in the long run.

The players like all games when they are marching through the season. It is business for them. Bobby coaches and prepares them the same way every week. Do you even know any current players? Do you think the players would be enjoying this Wyo. season, with only 1 win and over SS, and only 5 home games? No possibility of playoffs and almsot zero possibility of even a crappy bowl game.

I am not fabricating anything. In fact, I am not trying to defeat move up. I am expressing my views on what I believe is best for the Griz program and what I would prefer (and that is, playing for and in the playoffs every year). I look first at the potential impact, and try to predict what it would cause. I am making no "arguments" for moving up or not moving up. I am providing my views on the reality of the situation.

I said nothing in this thread about bad fans. Only discussed the possible impact on the program of moving up. I would point out, however, that people like you and AZ seem to believe what you would prefer for yourselves is more important than the health and success of the program. If you want to distract with cheap shots, I can do that too.

You are right. You won't see me at ISU. I have to pick up my wife and son this afternoon, after they fly back from AZ. He had a major surgery less than a week ago. One of many surgeries from when he got mowed down by a kid who had been driving 60mph before turning into our son in a crosswalk of a stoplight and sending him flying. This surgery was to try to repair his shoulder and upper arm, which were shattered when the kid ran/drive off and ran over our son as he was face down on the payment. The police report noted that there were tire tread marks on the back of our son's shirt at the shoulder/back area. Our son walks with a cane or walker. He has use of only 1 arm for a few weeks, and is in huge pain. Cheer hard today.
 
garizzalies said:
My gosh, sorry to hear that. Hope your son feels better.
Did they catch the driver?
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Son is mostly sucking wind. Surgery after surgery. Cane, walker, wheelchair. Initially, over 30 days in hospital and 12 days of ICU. Phoenix has good healthcare. They caught the guy. A car following the guy followed him to his house, after he drove off. He served time in jail. He had no money. A woman on the sidewalk ran to the street to block traffic. Then she turned to our son. He was motionless. She assumed he was dead. Then this motionless body started talking to her.
Asked her if he was paralyzed. She said in the police report that this scared her,
I.e. a dead body talking.
 
mthoopsfan said:
I made no argument that those teams, i.e. the ones you listed, are poor. I didn't even hint that.

I'm not afraid of a loss. I'm concerned about increasing and consistent losing impacting attendance and interest after several years or in the long run.

The players like all games when they are marching through the season. It is business for them. Bobby coaches and prepares them the same way every week. Do you even know any current players? Do you think the players would be enjoying this Wyo. season, with only 1 win and over SS, and only 5 home games? No possibility of playoffs and almsot zero possibility of even a crappy bowl game.

I am not fabricating anything. In fact, I am not trying to defeat move up. I am expressing my views on what I believe is best for the Griz program and what I would prefer (and that is, playing for and in the playoffs every year). I look first at the potential impact, and try to predict what it would cause. I am making no "arguments" for moving up or not moving up. I am providing my views on the reality of the situation.

I said nothing in this thread about bad fans. Only discussed the possible impact on the program of moving up. I would point out, however, that people like you and AZ seem to believe what you would prefer for yourselves is more important than the health and success of the program. If you want to distract with cheap shots, I can do that too.

You are right. You won't see me at ISU. I have to pick up my wife and son this afternoon, after they fly back from AZ. He had a major surgery less than a week ago. One of many surgeries from when he got mowed down by a kid who had been driving 60mph before turning into our son in a crosswalk of a stoplight and sending him flying. This surgery was to try to repair his shoulder and upper arm, which were shattered when the kid ran/drive off and ran over our son as he was face down on the payment. The police report noted that there were tire tread marks on the back of our son's shirt at the shoulder/back area. Our son walks with a cane or walker. He has use of only 1 arm for a few weeks, and is in huge pain. Cheer hard today.
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Wyoming has 6 home games and is 2-2
 
Ut-Grizfan said:
… another point that hasn't really been mentioned, garunteed a good number of MWC schools would bring more away fans to our games compared to Big Sky competition, so yet another bonus for attendance.
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Though if those schools sent more fans I doubt UM would give them more tickets. You know they won’t expand whatever the normal allotment normally is.
 
AZGrizFan said:
None of those teams EVER had the kind of fan support Montana has.

And why does every always assume we'd lose? I don't get that. Like they're gonna make us move up and only play with 63 schollies or something.

And I'd bet $10,000 that there will be a playoff system at the G5 level within 5 years. The bowl games will either be incorporated in, or be relegated to teams 13 and beyond who don't make the playoffs each year.
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Hmmm you mean like the FCS playoff system where almost every G5 team moved up from? Sounds like a new 1AA making the FCS D2 again?
 
GallatinGriz03 said:
Your right. Attendance isn't the be all end all. But it is a barometer for how much fans care and how much they support the team. Also, from what has been bantered about on this board, it is the biggest funding source for Griz Athletics.
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Air Force has a great attendance because.. it's an academy, they have to go.

UNLV is getting a fan base now that there is some success, and playing in Allegiant Arena definitely has helped.

I guess people go to San Diego State Games. Idk. there are a lot of teams in that area, and it's San Diego. People are more interested in doing the SoCal thing, which doesn't really include a lot of football. Been to games when I was stationed there.

Utah State? Well, I guess if near beer and... yeah I really can't say anything good about USU, Weber, or BYU. I REALLY want to be snarky and throw cheap shot after cheap shot at those schools and their fans, but Ima be civil.

Hawaiians love their Football team, and I would love to go to a tailgate. I bet they are off the chain as long as they aren't Mormon.

Fans in Wyoming literally have the choice of watching tumbleweeds blow through the state, or go to a Football Game. They know how to football and tailgate though.

Teams I wonder if there is actually a fan base: Fresno State, San Jose State,

The UN - Reno fan base is nothing more than cross over Cat fans because that where Jeff Choke went.

TCU, Boise State fanbases are legit. I have been to games at both places. Boise State's field is meh... but great fans and tailgate. TCU is ginormous, great fans and tailgates.

Went to a CSU game when the kid was being recruited in 2008. It was okay, nothing to get excited about.

And Finally, we have UNM Lobos. I went t a couple of games when I had friends going there. granted it was a long time ago, but I watch games on TV and there isn't any excitement for that team.

So why would UM want to be a part of that? Why would we, as fans want to be part of that? Can you imagine us having to share revenue with programs like UNR or UNM? No thanks.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Son is mostly sucking wind. Surgery after surgery. Cane, walker, wheelchair. Initially, over 30 days in hospital and 12 days of ICU. Phoenix has good healthcare. They caught the guy. A car following the guy followed him to his house, after he drove off. He served time in jail. He had no money. A woman on the sidewalk ran to the street to block traffic. Then she turned to our son. He was motionless. She assumed he was dead. Then this motionless body started talking to her.
Asked her if he was paralyzed. She said in the police report that this scared her,
I.e. a dead body talking.
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Best wishes Hoops on his continued, full recovery. 🙏
You think you're safe walking down the street and this happens.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Son is mostly sucking wind. Surgery after surgery. Cane, walker, wheelchair. Initially, over 30 days in hospital and 12 days of ICU. Phoenix has good healthcare. They caught the guy. A car following the guy followed him to his house, after he drove off. He served time in jail. He had no money. A woman on the sidewalk ran to the street to block traffic. Then she turned to our son. He was motionless. She assumed he was dead. Then this motionless body started talking to her.
Asked her if he was paralyzed. She said in the police report that this scared her,
I.e. a dead body talking.
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I had no idea it was that bad. I know there isn't much anyone on here can do to help, but will keep him in my prayers.
 
SinCityGriz2005 said:
Air Force has a great attendance because.. it's an academy, they have to go.

UNLV is getting a fan base now that there is some success, and playing in Allegiant Arena definitely has helped.

I guess people go to San Diego State Games. Idk. there are a lot of teams in that area, and it's San Diego. People are more interested in doing the SoCal thing, which doesn't really include a lot of football. Been to games when I was stationed there.

Utah State? Well, I guess if near beer and... yeah I really can't say anything good about USU, Weber, or BYU. I REALLY want to be snarky and throw cheap shot after cheap shot at those schools and their fans, but Ima be civil.

Hawaiians love their Football team, and I would love to go to a tailgate. I bet they are off the chain as long as they aren't Mormon.

Fans in Wyoming literally have the choice of watching tumbleweeds blow through the state, or go to a Football Game. They know how to football and tailgate though.

Teams I wonder if there is actually a fan base: Fresno State, San Jose State,

The UN - Reno fan base is nothing more than cross over Cat fans because that where Jeff Choke went.

TCU, Boise State fanbases are legit. I have been to games at both places. Boise State's field is meh... but great fans and tailgate. TCU is ginormous, great fans and tailgates.

Went to a CSU game when the kid was being recruited in 2008. It was okay, nothing to get excited about.

And Finally, we have UNM Lobos. I went t a couple of games when I had friends going there. granted it was a long time ago, but I watch games on TV and there isn't any excitement for that team.

So why would UM want to be a part of that? Why would we, as fans want to be part of that? Can you imagine us having to share revenue with programs like UNR or UNM? No thanks.
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Those are a home run compared to PSU, No Co, EWU, Idaho St, etc.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
Those are a home run compared to PSU, No Co, EWU, Idaho St, etc.
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Actual 2025 attendance figures.
Tarleton St. v. PSU -- 1948
NAU v. PSU -- 1542
I mean ... Pathetic.

Chadron St. v. UNC -- 4153
ISU v. UNC -- 5386

Lincoln v. ISU -- 6203
UM v. ISU -- 7674

UT Tech v. NAU -- 9611
Incarnate Word v. NAU -- 10,007
MSU v. NAU -- 7837

St. Thomas v. ID -- 8065
UT Tech v. ID -- 7681
For a supposed Big Sky contender, not great.

W. Ill. v. EWU -- 5301
PSU v. EWU -- 6003

Future Big Sky members
ISU v. S. UT -- 5137
NAU v. S. UT -- 3084
W. GA v. S. UT --5769

Davis v. UT Tech -- 4629
UNI v. UT Tech -- 4784

Yeah, I think the worst school in the Mountain West is light years better than the entire Big Sky, except UM and MSU.
 
GallatinGriz03 said:
Actual 2025 attendance figures.
Tarleton St. v. PSU -- 1948
NAU v. PSU -- 1542
I mean ... Pathetic.

Chadron St. v. UNC -- 4153
ISU v. UNC -- 5386

Lincoln v. ISU -- 6203
UM v. ISU -- 7674

UT Tech v. NAU -- 9611
Incarnate Word v. NAU -- 10,007
MSU v. NAU -- 7837

St. Thomas v. ID -- 8065
UT Tech v. ID -- 7681
For a supposed Big Sky contender, not great.

W. Ill. v. EWU -- 5301
PSU v. EWU -- 6003

Future Big Sky members
ISU v. S. UT -- 5137
NAU v. S. UT -- 3084
W. GA v. S. UT --5769

Davis v. UT Tech -- 4629
UNI v. UT Tech -- 4784

Yeah, I think the worst school in the Mountain West is light years better than the entire Big Sky, except UM and MSU.
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Thx for posting that info.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Son is mostly sucking wind. Surgery after surgery. Cane, walker, wheelchair. Initially, over 30 days in hospital and 12 days of ICU. Phoenix has good healthcare. They caught the guy. A car following the guy followed him to his house, after he drove off. He served time in jail. He had no money. A woman on the sidewalk ran to the street to block traffic. Then she turned to our son. He was motionless. She assumed he was dead. Then this motionless body started talking to her.
Asked her if he was paralyzed. She said in the police report that this scared her,
I.e. a dead body talking.
Click to expand...
Really hope your son continues to get better, Hoops. Obviously a horrible situation, but also thankful that it wasn't even worse and that he's still here to fight the good fight.
 
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