I think we would have joined Utah State and SJSU in moving to the MWC. Maybe C-USA or Sun Belt along with other WAC departures. In any event, I believe we'd be somewhere that isn't the FCS right now.
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It’s time to move up to the FBS the Mountain West preferably.
- Thread starter 5280Griz
- Start date
That's fine. I don't agree with a lot of your view, but I can agree with you that I'd have fun (theoretically) watching Boise or Wyoming or CSU play in WaGriz. As for where the FCS goes from here - I don't know. I'm certain some more schools will continue to try and move up. I wouldn't be totally shocked if some schools eventually come back down, depending on how our own playoff evolves. UM is (from the football standpoint) kind of in that fuzzy border between what's realistic as a high FCS/ low G6 type program.
We'd definitely lose a lot of fans if we weren't winning. That's the only argument I've taken from those people. If I have missed someone saying they literally care about nothing but maximizing playoff appearances and would happily move down to DII in order to achieve that, then please point them out.
100% agree that more teams will move up. Only one has ever moved back down to my knowledge. FB-only membership could be a wildcard.
As for fan support, I wonder what the fans of teams who moved up semi-recently think about it. I'm talking about the comparable fan bases, like App State. App isn't winning three straight NCs at the next level by any means, so are those fans longing for their FCS days? I know they were able to expand their stadium, which seems odd if the fans were jumping ship.
Were the Idaho fans stoked to move back down? I don't remember.
Griz in Texas
Well-known member
No way would we have just moved over to the MW and called it a day.
I doubt we would have followed the New Mexico State trail to the SBC either. They had just put the run on Idaho, but let's just say that we did end up where New Mexico State is right now. The jury is still out on that and they may very well be on their way back to FCS too because the SBC has only agreed to take them on through this year, or next at the latest. They were a I-AA program for those that might not remember in the MVC back when Wichita State still had football.
If memory serves me, I do believe the WAC had a bunch of teams send in their resume to move up but just told Montana to show up because we were in if we wanted. There was no invitation for the scats and when media asked the AD 'what about the bobcats?' his response was simply, 'they didn't get invited.' Shortly after that, it was made clear that we couldn't move up without them, similar to the situation with UNLV going to the PAC.
We'll never know.
Hmmm....wonder why that is.
Let's be honest, an FCS National Championship is not a huge draw for transfers from FBS teams. I think it is kind of considered an afterthought. They do seem to like the stadium, the facilities, the winning culture, and the supportive fan base. This makes it fun. Most of the guys who wind up transfering from FBS teams were not going to be playing much. . .if at all. . .on those teams. To be able to go to a team like the Griz is a huge opportunity to prove you can play and have a lot of support and energy at the FCS level. I really believe this is what draws guys to Montana. You won't get a lot of top talent out of warm weather states, however. Once they find out the cold conditions, I think many guys we may have been able to get will find other places.
Griz in Texas
Well-known member
Technically, the entire Ivy league moved down to I-AA in 1982.
I am a move up guy...and have been for years...and will continue to be. BUT, money aside, I think the Griz can compete with a majority of those teams now, and definitely if had more scholarships. That said, and I have said before, we argue this a lot as a fan. I have been on the side with the players. And most of us "hate" the tidy cat ass licking bowl, but I am telling you the players love it. They love the attention the bowls give them, the swag, seeing places they have never been, etc. I do think there will be a G5 playoff soon as well. Essentially that is the I-AA championship and FCS will be the !-AAA championship. As long as NOT moving up essentially forces the Griz to D-2, I will love and support them at I-A, I-AA, or I-AAA.
As far as I recall the Idaho fans were split, but the ones against moving back down were very vocal. I imagine App State is probably happy where they're at, and I think that's largely a matter of circumstance - in particular, they found their way into a league with a lot of local (and traditional) rivalries. A comparable situation for UM would to somehow build/ get into the hypothetical "Snow Belt" conference with MSU, Idaho, NDSU, SDSU, ND, SD, and maybe a few others. IF we were in some FBS league with a bunch of regional or traditional rivalries, sure, the games would be fun. That said, App State is certainly losing much more than they used to, and they're in a much better recruiting spot than we are. It's all a balance.
TLDR: I'll enjoy Griz football no matter what.
App State has actually grown their fanbase since moving up to the FBS. And fun fact: App State hosts Oregon State this weekend.
Attendance Averages since moving up to FBS:
2013 (FCS): 24,894
2014 (FBS): 23,166
2015 (FBS): 21,459
2016 (FBS): 26,153
2017 (FBS): 25,787
2018 (FBS): 21,953
2019 (FBS): 30,680
2021 (FBS): 30,441
2022 (FBS): 33,566
2023 (FBS): 34,734
2024 (FBS): 34,623
My fiance went to JMU. Huge football fan all around. Even talked my daughter into doing their stupid chant the last time they played the Griz (after a brief separation and a lot of counseling, we are back on track after that travesty and betrayal). She cried when they upset VTech in 2010. She cried when she was attending there and the Griz beat them. When we played them in the playoffs last, she was informing me all about their coach, QB, and best players. She was a diehard. She would see girls wearing JMU gear in Missoula in the summers and scream "GO DUKES" at them. She tried to get out to a game every other year, even after returning to MT.
Their first year in the FBS she was excited, and since then I have watched it just slowly fade. It went from her wanting to watch every game as bad as I did to her then not really needing to watch but still checking in. At this point she doesn't even ask me how JMU did and I couldn't tell you about a single game they have played this year.
Watching that has been a big factor in my opinion on it. The last time we talked about it she just said she doesn't care about a bowl game and feels like they have almost zero chance of ever making the playoffs and zero chance of a title.
I hear your point that you are advocating that we get into the "G6" type of level before the power conferences split away. Personally, from my perspective, I am more worried about us moving up too early and losing fans than us getting temporarily trapped at a level below until we can move up.
And yes, I know that this is one anecdotal piece of evidence. She absolutely longs for the FCS days, and I haven't heard her sorority sisters mention a word about football in a couple of years when we hang out or are on video calls.
My memory is that attendance did drop in the final year of the Stitt era.
The only other point I would make is that we are also in a more precarious position than we may like to admit. It was not that long ago that the program needed to be resurrected. If we had moved up in 2011, I cannot imagine how terrible our teams would have been for the next 7 years.
See, and here I am thinking App had a lot of regional and traditional rivals in the Southern Conference that made a lot of sense.
Is that a true growth in fanbase, though, or just the increased stadium capacity? It looks to me like their attendance actually dropped between their move up and the time that they expanded the stadium to 30,000 plus people.
garizzalies
Well-known member
This is probably the best argument against moving up—total enrollment. However, when we talk about “peer institutions”, UM looks closer to MWC-type schools in terms of overall campus life than many of the shit hole schools in the BSC. Seems like we’ve outgrown that pond.Moving up is not all about attendance at football games, although that certainly helps. There is another elephant in the room and it starts with "e" and ends with "nrollment". If people want Montana to move up to the FBS, everyone in support of it needs to recruit 2 kids to enroll at Montana next year and then those kids get 2 more kids to enroll the same year or the following year. Plus, it helps to have a vibrant business community with the corporate HQ of at least one regional business located in Missoula.
Mountain West Conference (MW) Members Enrollment Comparison
View and Compare the 11 Mountain West Conference (MW) Members with Student Population by Gender and Enrollment Types.www.collegeevaluator.com
mthoopsfan
Well-known member
Delusionary.
I think that anytime you expand your stadium and you can get butts in the seats, it's generally a solid sign that your fan base is growing...
That's a fair interpretation, I'm just not sure that they couldn't have filled the same stadium staying FCS. Obviously, though, that is about as subjective an opinion as it is possible to have.
Yeah, I can definitely see specific scenarios where certain fans would lose interest if we weren't winning at the current clip. Definitely.
