It’s time to move up to the FBS the Mountain West preferably.

[AZGrizFan]

What does moving "up" do for our program?
Give us the possibility of playing in some worthless shambles of a bowl game and take away the excitement of playoff football in WAGriz?
Ensure that we will never play for another national championship?
Drive up ticket prices farther?

What exactly does Montana football have to gain by this?


27K in the stadium last Saturday, you'll have 2700 if this team is playing in a dud ass conference and losing.


We have seen Idaho fail and come back with their tail tucked between their legs. They are better in football now, but I don't think their basketball program will ever be what it was in the 70s and 80s.

I am seeing it fail with Sam Houston State and I don't believe Kennesaw State is exactly healthy right now.

Dream of moving up, but be careful what you wish for.

None of those teams EVER had the kind of fan support Montana has.

And why does every always assume we'd lose? I don't get that. Like they're gonna make us move up and only play with 63 schollies or something.

And I'd bet $10,000 that there will be a playoff system at the G5 level within 5 years. The bowl games will either be incorporated in, or be relegated to teams 13 and beyond who don't make the playoffs each year.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I heard the MW was ready to invite UM, MSU, NDSU, and MsDUI but UNLV and Air Force basically blocked it with their demand for additional payouts that would have gone to these schools to cover move up fees and adding additional sports.

More reason to hate UNLV and AF. Fucking greedy bitches.

 

[GrizTexas]

None of those teams EVER had the kind of fan support Montana has.

And why does every always assume we'd lose? I don't get that. Like they're gonna make us move up and only play with 63 schollies or something.

And I'd bet $10,000 that there will be a playoff system at the G5 level within 5 years. The bowl games will either be incorporated in, or be relegated to teams 13 and beyond who don't make the playoffs each year.

"And I'd bet $10,000 that there will be a playoff system at the G5 level within 5 years. The bowl games will either be incorporated in, or be relegated to teams 13 and beyond who don't make the playoffs each year."

Hopefully this won't take 5 years but G5 playoff for a title will be the impetus for a legitimate move up consideration...

 

[kemajic]

We are ready to leave this joke of a subdivision and conference, but we need the invite or opportunity.

Joke of a conference is a bit harsh don't you think? After all, PSU drew 1542 last weekend for its BSC home opener at their high school "stadium."

 

[AZGrizFan]

Okay, we play in the mecca and all that, we are great, I get it but look.

Sam Houston State is right in Texas A&M's back yard, University of Houston and Rice right down the road. It's Texas, so there's talent in every park, high school crowds nearly as big as our Saturday night gathering.

There are transfer players and talent abounding and they are failing at a campus that has grown from right where we are in population right now to over 30k in 15 years. There is a lot going on that is right in Huntsville, but the athletic program is not heading in the same direction and in a weak SLC, they wouldn't finish better than 4-4 and in the UAC they would be even worse off.

What you all are asking for essentially is joining up with a league we were in before the Big Sky formed. We didn't ever compete with those teams on a consistent basis, and nothing is going to change if we go back. Stop looking at Boise State and thinking of what could be. Boise State is the outlier in all of this, that isn't the norm for teams moving up, and they still aren't nationally significant because the P4 won't let that happen for one thing.

Gather together the list of teams and check it for yourself because you can't just say we would be different than the failures at Marshall, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Massachusetts and a ton of others. All those teams won I-AA titles and they aren't anywhere near more than the new dream of teams moving up, becoming BOWL ELIGIBLE to play in a bowl game nobody can remember. James Madison might be doing okay right now, but they will fade back into the pack just the same as soon as the new wears off.

Newsflash: The Griz "fade back into the pack" periodically NOW.

Tell me you enjoy the Griz playing UNC in Greely in front of 2,000 people? Or PSU in front of 1700? Sure our HOME games are awesome--we can get 25,000 for Little Sisters of the Blind--but that's not the issue. The issue is who our competition is and what THEIR environment is like...I'd much rather be playing in front of 25,000-30,000 in Laramie, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, Logan, Reno, etc., than Greely, Flagstaff, St. George, Moscow, Cheney, etc. Shitty little stadiums in shitty little towns where the school athletics are an afterthought.

I'd rather be in a conference where we could get Boise State or Washington State or some other teams IN Wa/Griz, and not just whore ourselves out every 2-3 years and be required to go to their house. I'd like to be in a conference where opposing teams had ACTUAL fans who gave a fuck...going to a game in PSU or Greeley is like going to my kids' soccer games. The only people there for the other team are the parents/siblings of the players. And the atmosphere is just as exciting lol.

And no, I don't know where the money comes from to make it happen. That's not my job--there are people who get paid to figure that out. It's just amazing that there's only ONE team that's EVER had to come BACK to FCS, and everyone uses that team as the mythical standard by which we can expect to perform. Where are these schools finding their money? How do they magically manage to remain FBS if the money is a pipe dream?

Mark my words: There WILL be a G5 playoff system. I can envision no scenario where the G5 is the ONLY level without one...and that's currently the case. Bowls are becoming less and less relevant (particularly in the "new world" as anyone with a chance at the NFL passes on playing for fear of injury). The only question that remains is: If an offer is made to the University, will it be accepted.

 

[get'em_griz]

Newsflash: The Griz "fade back into the pack" periodically now.

Tell me you enjoy the Griz playing UNC in Greely in front of 2,000 people? Or PSU in front of 1700? Sure our HOME games are awesome, but that's not the issue. The issue is who our competition is and what THEIR environment is like...I'd much rather be playing in front of 25,000-30,000 in Laramie, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, Logan, Reno, etc., than Greely, Flagstaff, St. George, Moscow, Cheney, etc. Shitty little stadiums in shitty little towns where the school athletics are an afterthought.

I'd rather be in a conference where we could get Boise State or Washington State or some other teams IN Wa/Griz, and not just whore ourselves out every 2-3 years and be required to go to their house. I'd like to be in a conference where opposing teams had ACTUAL fans who gave a fuck...going to a game in PSU or Greeley is like going to my kids' soccer games. The only people there for the other team are the parents/siblings of the players. And the atmosphere is just as exciting lol.

And no, I don't know where the money comes from to make it happen. That's not my job--there are people who get paid to figure that out. It's just amazing that there's only ONE team that's EVER had to come BACK to FCS, and everyone uses that team as the mythical standard by which we can expect to perform. Where are these schools finding their money? How do they magically manage to remain FBS if the money is a pipe dream?

Mark my words: There WILL be a G5 playoff system. I can envision no scenario where the G5 is the ONLY level without one...and that's currently the case. Bowls are becoming less and less relevant (particularly in the "new world" as anyone with a chance at the NFL passes on playing for fear of injury). The only question that remains is: If an offer is made to the University, will it be accepted.

Just imagine having Washington State, Oregon State, Wyoming, Utah State coming to Washington-Grizzly Stadium... And App State again...

 

[Griz in Texas]

None of those teams EVER had the kind of fan support Montana has.

And why does every always assume we'd lose? I don't get that. Like they're gonna make us move up and only play with 63 schollies or something.

And I'd bet $10,000 that there will be a playoff system at the G5 level within 5 years. The bowl games will either be incorporated in, or be relegated to teams 13 and beyond who don't make the playoffs each year.

As of right now, we have better fan support than the teams that will be left in the MW, but that hasn't been forever and it would dry up and blow away if we don't win.

Why assume we wouldn't win? History. Here's how we stack up against what is left of the MW.

Air Force 0-0
Hawaii 1-4 brutal trip, 8 hour flight there and then back
Nevada 4-10
Nevada-Las Vegas 1-4
New Mexico 4-10
San Jose State 0-3
Wyoming 0-14

That's a whopping 10-45 combined all-time record against the MW and what they are left with, the good side of the MW, is going to the PAC so we are stuck in a mud bog with the lower than the MAC residue of what is left.

Keep your $10K and that wouldn't cover a day of the expense it would cost for us to add what String points out we need to add. There isn't money in our athletic budget to cover all that.

Maybe, and that is a sketchy maybe, if basketball could draw for men's hoops (not sure on how well the Lady Griz draw, regrettably) we could afford to add one or two sports, but that still isn't enough. It wouldn't move the athletic program forward, it would hurt us to move up and be a floor mat in a basement conference. AND we don't have an invite, Sac State.

IMO, what it's going to take to get what you are suggesting for an FBS, non-P4 championship is for P4 to either leave the NCAA or to be separated from that level because they don't want anyone in their playground that isn't P4 any way.

Look at the basketball tournament. When they add teams, they are only adding more P4 at the bottom of their conferences. That's all they did by adding two 11 seeds and two 16's. They essentially just took four P4 (most years) that would have gone to the NIT and put plugged them into those 11 seeds while they immediately eliminate two teams who were conference champions and deserve a shot at the dream.

If they separate and have that kind of FBS, I would be in favor of the move at that point. It gets tiring seeing the NEC add in Mercyhurst last year, New Haven this year, Chicago State next year, and having that league be validated by lesser teams that should stay in D-II but move up to go D-I in basketball.

 

[406football]

Not that I disagree with staying put for right now while the conference realignment stuff is going on at light speed, but... Idaho, Sam Houston and Kennesaw State are not remotely close to being in the same hemisphere of being prepared for playing at the FBS level. Montana would 100% see more success "IF" we were to move up compared to what Idaho, Sam Houston and Kennesaw experienced.

Our move up would have a similar look to what Idaho accomplished during their FBS journey. Also, the other 2 teams you mention sit in the hottest recruiting beds in the country and they have not seen much success. There is ZERO benefit to moving up.

 

[406football]

Just imagine having Washington State, Oregon State, Wyoming, Utah State coming to Washington-Grizzly Stadium... And App State again...

None of those teams EVER had the kind of fan support Montana has.

And why does every always assume we'd lose? I don't get that. Like they're gonna make us move up and only play with 63 schollies or something.

And I'd bet $10,000 that there will be a playoff system at the G5 level within 5 years. The bowl games will either be incorporated in, or be relegated to teams 13 and beyond who don't make the playoffs each year.

Because we do not have an extra 20+ million to support the kind of rosters to consistently compete in a group of 5 conference. Outside of Boise State who really pays attention to any of these teams anyways? Until they come up with a group of 5 playoff system it is a pointless adventure just to bring in shitty Washington State and Oregon State. The only team that is truly ready for a move up is NDSU. Who are we going to steal FBS recruits from?

 

[Griz in Texas]

Newsflash: The Griz "fade back into the pack" periodically NOW.

Tell me you enjoy the Griz playing UNC in Greely in front of 2,000 people? Or PSU in front of 1700? Sure our HOME games are awesome--we can get 25,000 for Little Sisters of the Blind--but that's not the issue. The issue is who our competition is and what THEIR environment is like...I'd much rather be playing in front of 25,000-30,000 in Laramie, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, Logan, Reno, etc., than Greely, Flagstaff, St. George, Moscow, Cheney, etc. Shitty little stadiums in shitty little towns where the school athletics are an afterthought.

I'd rather be in a conference where we could get Boise State or Washington State or some other teams IN Wa/Griz, and not just whore ourselves out every 2-3 years and be required to go to their house. I'd like to be in a conference where opposing teams had ACTUAL fans who gave a fuck...going to a game in PSU or Greeley is like going to my kids' soccer games. The only people there for the other team are the parents/siblings of the players. And the atmosphere is just as exciting lol.

And no, I don't know where the money comes from to make it happen. That's not my job--there are people who get paid to figure that out. It's just amazing that there's only ONE team that's EVER had to come BACK to FCS, and everyone uses that team as the mythical standard by which we can expect to perform. Where are these schools finding their money? How do they magically manage to remain FBS if the money is a pipe dream?

Mark my words: There WILL be a G5 playoff system. I can envision no scenario where the G5 is the ONLY level without one...and that's currently the case. Bowls are becoming less and less relevant (particularly in the "new world" as anyone with a chance at the NFL passes on playing for fear of injury). The only question that remains is: If an offer is made to the University, will it be accepted.

Washington State 2-32
Boise State 9-16
Oregon State 2-12
Utah State 8-26

Yeah, I think that's even worse, 21-86.

It's not up to you to decide where the money is coming from, but someone has to figure all that out and with these kinds of numbers, I don't see a lot of backing to make it happen.

What we should consider is taking the best of the Big Sky and aligning with the best of the MVFC and then see if there can't be a move like the MAC where we all move up together in a conference where the teams have something in common.

 

[GallatinGriz03]

Just some information. All Mountain West Teams 2024 individual game day attendance figures. From Chat GPT so take all of the figures how you want to take them.

Nevada Wolf Pack​

• SMU: 20,263
• Georgia Southern: 16,245
• Eastern Washington: 16,399
• Oregon State: 21,541
• Fresno State: 18,319
• Colorado State: 16,019
• Air Force: 12,228

Fresno State Bulldogs​

• Sacramento State: 41,031
• New Mexico State: 39,079
• Washington State: 41,031
• San Jose State: 41,343
• Hawaii: 41,575
• Colorado State: 39,543

Colorado State Rams​

• Northern Colorado: 36,573
• Colorado: 40,099
• Utah Tech: 30,107
• Utah State: 36,980
• New Mexico: 36,980
• San Diego State: 32,000
• Boise State: 31,000

UNLV Rebels​

• Syracuse: 31,329
• Boise State: 42,228 (announced)
• San Diego State: ~30,000+
• Hawaii: 12,691

Air Force Falcons​

• Robert Morris: ~30,000+
• San Jose State: ~26,000
• Navy: ~30,000+
• Fresno State: ~25,000
• Colorado State: ~21,000
• Army: ~30,000+
• UNLV: ~21,000

San Diego State Aztecs​

• Texas A&M–Commerce: 25,180
• Oregon State: 25,318
• Hawaii: 31,307
• Washington State: 26,937
• New Mexico: 21,832
• Air Force: 18,045

Wyoming Cowboys​

• Idaho: 25,070
• BYU: 24,513
• Air Force: 23,068
• San Diego State: 23,155
• Utah State: 17,724
• Boise State: 18,094

San Jose State Spartans​

• Cal Poly: 15,102
• Eastern Michigan: 14,987
• Utah State: 16,201
• Wyoming: 15,998
• Colorado State: 16,053
• Hawaii: 16,065

New Mexico Lobos​

• Montana State: 17,314
• Fresno State: 18,019
• Air Force: 15,561
• Wyoming: 15,046
• Washington State: 14,067

Utah State Aggies​

• Idaho State: 16,203
• UTEP: 15,998
• New Mexico: 14,584
• San Jose State: 13,348
• San Diego State: 12,583

Hawai‘i Rainbow Warriors​

• Delaware State: 12,206
• UCLA: 15,194
• Northern Iowa: 11,402
• Boise State: 15,194
• Nevada: 12,006
• UNLV: 12,691
• New Mexico: 12,046

 

[GallatinGriz03]

Same for the Pac 2. The difference between OSU and WSU in attendance is probably related to OSU excited about their new coach last year where WSU's coach left for Wake Forest last year. We will see if Mr. Rodgers can get that program back to respectability. ​

​

Oregon State Beavers (Reser Stadium)​

Opponent	Date	Attendance
Idaho State	Aug 31	31,013
Oregon	Sep 14	38,419
Purdue	Sep 21	34,340
Colorado State	Oct 5	36,433
UNLV	Oct 19	35,195
San Jose State	Nov 9	37,187
Washington State	Nov 23	38,008

• Total Home Attendance: 250,595
• Average per Game: 35,799
• Capacity Utilization: 101%

Washington State Cougars (Martin Stadium)​

Opponent	Date	Attendance
Portland State	Sep 7	22,413
Hawai‘i	Oct 26	25,100
Utah State	Nov 2	20,011
Wyoming	Nov 16	17,088
New Mexico	Nov 23	14,067
Oregon State	Nov 30	35,801

• Total Home Attendance: 134,480
• Average per Game: 22,413
• Capacity Utilization: 68%

 

[AZGrizFan]

As of right now, we have better fan support than the teams that will be left in the MW, but that hasn't been forever and it would dry up and blow away if we don't win.

Why assume we wouldn't win? History. Here's how we stack up against what is left of the MW.

Air Force 0-0
Hawaii 1-4 brutal trip, 8 hour flight there and then back
Nevada 4-10
Nevada-Las Vegas 1-4
New Mexico 4-10
San Jose State 0-3
Wyoming 0-14

That's a whopping 10-45 combined all-time record against the MW and what they are left with, the good side of the MW, is going to the PAC so we are stuck in a mud bog with the lower than the MAC residue of what is left.

Keep your $10K and that wouldn't cover a day of the expense it would cost for us to add what String points out we need to add. There isn't money in our athletic budget to cover all that.

Maybe, and that is a sketchy maybe, if basketball could draw for men's hoops (not sure on how well the Lady Griz draw, regrettably) we could afford to add one or two sports, but that still isn't enough. It wouldn't move the athletic program forward, it would hurt us to move up and be a floor mat in a basement conference. AND we don't have an invite, Sac State.

IMO, what it's going to take to get what you are suggesting for an FBS, non-P4 championship is for P4 to either leave the NCAA or to be separated from that level because they don't want anyone in their playground that isn't P4 any way.

Look at the basketball tournament. When they add teams, they are only adding more P4 at the bottom of their conferences. That's all they did by adding two 11 seeds and two 16's. They essentially just took four P4 (most years) that would have gone to the NIT and put plugged them into those 11 seeds while they immediately eliminate two teams who were conference champions and deserve a shot at the dream.

If they separate and have that kind of FBS, I would be in favor of the move at that point. It gets tiring seeing the NEC add in Mercyhurst last year, New Haven this year, Chicago State next year, and having that league be validated by lesser teams that should stay in D-II but move up to go D-I in basketball.

Come on, man. How disingenuous is it to use stats from 20, 30, 40 years ago to build an argument for how we'd compete against those same teams TODAY??? And ANY game played against those teams in the past 40 years has had a 20+ scholarship difference, not to mention the impact of NIL on player attraction/movement. Our competitiveness THEN (or lack thereof) against all those teams is literally irrelevant in today's conversation.

And speaking of basketball, the MWC earned 8 units in the 2025 NCAA tournament. That's $16 million split amongst conference members. Big Sky? ONE unit. And that's all the Big Sky will EVER get, with the rare (like Haley's Comet rare) exception of the times the BSC team actually wins a game.

Then there's this little nugget: "SEC commissioner Greg Sankey told ESPN last week that he now favors potentially eliminating automatic qualifiers for smaller conferences, particularly in the wake of Power 5 conference expansion.

“We are giving away highly competitive opportunities for automatic qualifiers (from smaller conferences), and I think that pressure is going to rise as we have more competitive basketball leagues at the top end because of expansion,” Sankey said."

I don't know what the answer is, but to paraphrase a famous person, "if you're standing still you're moving backwards."

 

[AZGrizFan]

Just some information. All Mountain West Teams 2024 individual game day attendance figures. From Chat GPT so take all of the figures how you want to take them.

Nevada Wolf Pack​

• SMU: 20,263
• Georgia Southern: 16,245
• Eastern Washington: 16,399
• Oregon State: 21,541
• Fresno State: 18,319
• Colorado State: 16,019
• Air Force: 12,228

Fresno State Bulldogs​

• Sacramento State: 41,031
• New Mexico State: 39,079
• Washington State: 41,031
• San Jose State: 41,343
• Hawaii: 41,575
• Colorado State: 39,543

Colorado State Rams​

• Northern Colorado: 36,573
• Colorado: 40,099
• Utah Tech: 30,107
• Utah State: 36,980
• New Mexico: 36,980
• San Diego State: 32,000
• Boise State: 31,000

UNLV Rebels​

• Syracuse: 31,329
• Boise State: 42,228 (announced)
• San Diego State: ~30,000+
• Hawaii: 12,691

Air Force Falcons​

• Robert Morris: ~30,000+
• San Jose State: ~26,000
• Navy: ~30,000+
• Fresno State: ~25,000
• Colorado State: ~21,000
• Army: ~30,000+
• UNLV: ~21,000

San Diego State Aztecs​

• Texas A&M–Commerce: 25,180
• Oregon State: 25,318
• Hawaii: 31,307
• Washington State: 26,937
• New Mexico: 21,832
• Air Force: 18,045

Wyoming Cowboys​

• Idaho: 25,070
• BYU: 24,513
• Air Force: 23,068
• San Diego State: 23,155
• Utah State: 17,724
• Boise State: 18,094

San Jose State Spartans​

• Cal Poly: 15,102
• Eastern Michigan: 14,987
• Utah State: 16,201
• Wyoming: 15,998
• Colorado State: 16,053
• Hawaii: 16,065

New Mexico Lobos​

• Montana State: 17,314
• Fresno State: 18,019
• Air Force: 15,561
• Wyoming: 15,046
• Washington State: 14,067

Utah State Aggies​

• Idaho State: 16,203
• UTEP: 15,998
• New Mexico: 14,584
• San Jose State: 13,348
• San Diego State: 12,583

Hawai‘i Rainbow Warriors​

• Delaware State: 12,206
• UCLA: 15,194
• Northern Iowa: 11,402
• Boise State: 15,194
• Nevada: 12,006
• UNLV: 12,691
• New Mexico: 12,046

Thank you. I think all those numbers support my point. Now do PSU, UNC, SUU, Utah Tech, etc....

 

[GallatinGriz03]

Tried to do the Big Sky teams, but Chat GPT doesn't come up with any figures that are even accurate. I.e. said every No Co, game was 3,500, every ISU game 5,000. I guess even Chat GPT has limits on finding information about "jv" football.

 

[406football]

Just some information. All Mountain West Teams 2024 individual game day attendance figures. From Chat GPT so take all of the figures how you want to take them.

Nevada Wolf Pack​

• SMU: 20,263
• Georgia Southern: 16,245
• Eastern Washington: 16,399
• Oregon State: 21,541
• Fresno State: 18,319
• Colorado State: 16,019
• Air Force: 12,228

Fresno State Bulldogs​

• Sacramento State: 41,031
• New Mexico State: 39,079
• Washington State: 41,031
• San Jose State: 41,343
• Hawaii: 41,575
• Colorado State: 39,543

Colorado State Rams​

• Northern Colorado: 36,573
• Colorado: 40,099
• Utah Tech: 30,107
• Utah State: 36,980
• New Mexico: 36,980
• San Diego State: 32,000
• Boise State: 31,000

UNLV Rebels​

• Syracuse: 31,329
• Boise State: 42,228 (announced)
• San Diego State: ~30,000+
• Hawaii: 12,691

Air Force Falcons​

• Robert Morris: ~30,000+
• San Jose State: ~26,000
• Navy: ~30,000+
• Fresno State: ~25,000
• Colorado State: ~21,000
• Army: ~30,000+
• UNLV: ~21,000

San Diego State Aztecs​

• Texas A&M–Commerce: 25,180
• Oregon State: 25,318
• Hawaii: 31,307
• Washington State: 26,937
• New Mexico: 21,832
• Air Force: 18,045

Wyoming Cowboys​

• Idaho: 25,070
• BYU: 24,513
• Air Force: 23,068
• San Diego State: 23,155
• Utah State: 17,724
• Boise State: 18,094

San Jose State Spartans​

• Cal Poly: 15,102
• Eastern Michigan: 14,987
• Utah State: 16,201
• Wyoming: 15,998
• Colorado State: 16,053
• Hawaii: 16,065

New Mexico Lobos​

• Montana State: 17,314
• Fresno State: 18,019
• Air Force: 15,561
• Wyoming: 15,046
• Washington State: 14,067

Utah State Aggies​

• Idaho State: 16,203
• UTEP: 15,998
• New Mexico: 14,584
• San Jose State: 13,348
• San Diego State: 12,583

Hawai‘i Rainbow Warriors​

• Delaware State: 12,206
• UCLA: 15,194
• Northern Iowa: 11,402
• Boise State: 15,194
• Nevada: 12,006
• UNLV: 12,691
• New Mexico: 12,046

Attendance is only a small fraction and is no reason why we should move up. Should Jackson State move up because they can fill 60,000?

 

[GallatinGriz03]

Thank you. I think all those numbers support my point. Now do PSU, UNC, SUU, Utah Tech, etc....

I think it supports your point that at away games, the Griz would play in front of bigger crowds, leading to more exciting experiences for the student athletes. And I tend to agree with you that the Griz would be more competitive against the MW teams now, than in the past. But it would take a lot more money to do so. And we would not be going 10-2 or 9-3 most years. Would the fact we would not be at the top of the conference, let alone near the top of the division, lead to people less excited for the games, which could lead to lower attendance?

 

[GallatinGriz03]

Attendance is only a small fraction and is no reason why we should move up. Should Jackson State move up because they can fill 60,000?

Your right. Attendance isn't the be all end all. But it is a barometer for how much fans care and how much they support the team. Also, from what has been bantered about on this board, it is the biggest funding source for Griz Athletics.

 

[Griz in Texas]

Come on, man. How disingenuous is it to use stats from 20, 30, 40 years ago to build an argument for how we'd compete against those same teams TODAY??? And ANY game played against those teams in the past 40 years has had a 20+ scholarship difference, not to mention the impact of NIL on player attraction/movement. Our competitiveness (or lack thereof) against all those teams is literally irrelevant in today's conversation.

And speaking of basketball, the MWC earned 8 units in the 2025 NCAA tournament. That's $16 million split amongst conference members. Big Sky? ONE unit. And that's all the Big Sky will EVER get, with the rare (like Haley's Comet rare) exception of the times the BSC team actually wins a game.

Then there's this little nugget: "SEC commissioner Greg Sankey told ESPN last week that he now favors potentially eliminating automatic qualifiers for smaller conferences, particularly in the wake of Power 5 conference expansion.

“We are giving away highly competitive opportunities for automatic qualifiers (from smaller conferences), and I think that pressure is going to rise as we have more competitive basketball leagues at the top end because of expansion,” Sankey said."

I don't know what the answer is, but to paraphrase a famous person, "if you're standing still you're moving backwards."

History has a lot to do with this. You can't change geography, and all of those how HAVE to win the instate recruiting battle, there are a lot fewer Montana kids who are capable of playing on that level and most of them are going to go out of state to play.
You're making my argument for me in basketball. If you don't know what the answer is, you are standing still. Basketball has needed an FCS equivalent since the field expanded to 48.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Attendance only matters for Montana since they try to squeeze every dollar to maintain the athletic department budget. I am sure many G5 schools would like better attendance, but they currently can keep their athletic department afloat without it. Money will always be the issue for Montana.