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Projected Roster: 2025

HelenaHandBasket said:
Yes, but the question was why 85.
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Why 63 for FCS? Why 85 for FBS? Why whatever D2 has? Why is a football game 60 minutes? Why is a football field 100 yards long? Why is a first down 10 yards? Why 4 downs, and 3 in Canada? Why are some penalties 5 yards and some 15 yards?

I guess I would say, why not 85 for FCS partials?

Let us know when you find the answers to all these questions.

There are a lot of other questions I'd want answer to before "why 85 FCS partials?".
 
mthoopsfan said:
What are the pros?
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A “competitive advantage”

The ability to have 105 full scholarships

Letting the coaches decide who gets the NIL-type money

More control over NIL and more options for donations directly to the university

revenue-share with players, move NIL deals in-house within the athletic department, offer more scholarships, offer higher Alston payment stipends, etc.
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Not having the possibility to do these things is a negative. Not having the funding to do them is the same as now, so not really a negative.

From the perspective of the football program, I see no cons, other than a small handful of roster spots which it appears BH has already prepared for.

Seems like the analysis for moving up is similar to opting in. And opting out is like staying put. If someone is in favor of moving up, they should be in favor of opting in, and vice versa.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Why 63 for FCS? Why 85 for FBS? Why whatever D2 has? Why is a football game 60 minutes? Why is a football field 100 yards long? Why is a first down 10 yards? Why 4 downs, and 3 in Canada? Why are some penalties 5 yards and some 15 yards?

I guess I would say, why not 85 for FCS partials?

Let us know when you find the answers to all these questions.

There are a lot of other questions I'd want answer to before "why 85 FCS partials?".
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Took Chemistry from Dr Richard Fields and a student asked why pH was based on Hydrogen. His reply? Why not.
 
garizzalies said:
A “competitive advantage”

The ability to have 105 full scholarships

Letting the coaches decide who gets the NIL-type money

More control over NIL and more options for donations directly to the university



Not having the possibility to do these things is a negative. Not having the funding to do them is the same as now, so not really a negative.

From the perspective of the football program, I see no cons, other than a small handful of roster spots which it appears BH has already prepared for.

Seems like the analysis for moving up is similar to opting in. And opting out is like staying put. If someone is in favor of moving up, they should be in favor of opting in, and vice versa.
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Schools at UM’s won’t have 105 full and don’t have money for more. Don’t even have quite enough money now. Yes, having coaches with full NIL control, but with rules not enforced,
they have pretty good control now. Folding NIL into UM isn’t going to bring in more money overall. I say it will result in less. I give to NIL now, but I won’t shift that to UM. Deductible if given to UM is a slight positive. Big business NIL money isn’t going to give to the colleges and let them control it. They want to control it and be big deals with big players.

Does opting in mean paying annually to the fund? That would be negative.

Limited roster to 105 would be a big deal for UM, and for MT kids who want a shot at playing at UM.

The money just isn’t there. Do you NIL car dealerships will give their money to UM, and not have control over giving their cars to whomever they want? How about tattoo parlor or restaurant? Does a business that wants a player in advertising want to go through bureaucracy at the U? Let Gee get involved?
 
PhxGriz said:
Took Chemistry from Dr Richard Fields and a student asked why pH was based on Hydrogen. His reply? Why not.
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You can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
 
mthoopsfan said:
The money just isn’t there.
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This might work for an anti-move-up argument but not the anti-opting-in one. UM can easily afford $200k/year in pizza money alone. It’s becoming the price of admission. UM does not have to fund or even offer all 105 scholarships but would have the opportunity.

Thus, it’s really not much different than right now, but will open up a whole new world. Hard to believe anyone would be against the possibility of gaining a “competitive advantage” for basically peanuts (or pizzas). By not opting in, we lose the competitive advantage. Who would want that?

Having structure and rules in place is a good thing and could get cfb out of the dark ages. Why would we want “rules not enforced”? Coaches are always saying there has to be some structure over the NIL situation.

Donors such as dealerships can still make conditional donations. Anecdotal comments are not evidence, unlike the deductible which is real and a big deal. I don’t think UM will receive “less”. Have not seen evidence of that. Likely will get “more”. I plan to donate and was hesitant without the structure and deduction. Private NIL seems sketchy. No real checks, balances, oversight, audits, etc.
 
garizzalies said:
This might work for an anti-move-up argument but not the anti-opting-in one. UM can easily afford $200k/year in pizza money alone. It’s becoming the price of admission. UM does not have to fund or even offer all 105 scholarships but would have the opportunity.

Thus, it’s really not much different than right now, but will open up a whole new world. Hard to believe anyone would be against the possibility of gaining a “competitive advantage” for basically peanuts (or pizzas). By not opting in, we lose the competitive advantage. Who would want that?

Having structure and rules in place is a good thing and could get cfb out of the dark ages. Why would we want “rules not enforced”? Coaches are always saying there has to be some structure over the NIL situation.

Donors such as dealerships can still make conditional donations. Anecdotal comments are not evidence, unlike the deductible which is real and a big deal. I don’t think UM will receive “less”. Have not seen evidence of that. Likely will get “more”. I plan to donate and was hesitant without the structure and deduction. Private NIL seems sketchy. No real checks, balances, oversight, audits, etc.
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UM can’t easily afford an extra $200,000 per year. Look at what Haslam has said. If the choice is so obvious, why isn’t UN doing it this year. Most car dealerships are bit going to give their money to UM. Unnecessary red tape. If you can’t fund the scholarships, it’s not a competitive advantage. It’s pie in the sky. It’s a competitive disadvantage to have a 105 limit. No one wants rules not enforced, but they aren’t and they won’t be. Too late. Do you thing the Regents or State Legislature would allow UM to revenue share? The professors? You would rather have the UM administration making these decisions than Welnel and presumably Bobby wink-nod. And federal and state law clearly applying? Do you not think football is probably getting a bigger share now without UM and federal law involved? Again, I sure wouldn’t shift my money to UM for this. Why isn’t NDSU doing this?
 
Pick0621 said:
Man I would love to see us just throw up more passes in the red zone to these big tight ends. If they got even decent hands, not a lot of db's in our conference are going to be able to successfully stop a 6'7 dude from catching a ball in the corner of the endzone.
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Speaking of passes, is the starting quarterback going to be AhYat? Does Jensen have a legitimate shot? What do the board insiders think?
 
mthoopsfan said:
You would rather have the UM administration making these decisions than Welnel and presumably Bobby wink-nod.
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Wink-nod? That sounds crazy to me. The exact thing we are trying to evolve from. What’s Welnel’s cut?

I’ve asked and been told that BH wants to opt in. He’s a control freak, of course he wants more control over NIL. That’s why the roster is already at 105.

Was also told that if UM opts out this year it won’t be because of the FB team or BH’s desire. Nor will it be because of a lack of funding, or to sit back and watch to see how it works or how other schools handle it.

It will be to give UM’s other sports programs time to get their houses in order. Some teams have not even started their seasons yet. Would be difficult to cut some kids right now, but the programs will be put on notice for next year
 
garizzalies said:
Wink-nod? That sounds crazy to me. The exact thing we are trying to evolve from. What’s Welnel’s cut?

I’ve asked and been told that BH wants to opt in. He’s a control freak, of course he wants more control over NIL. That’s why the roster is already at 105.

Was also told that if UM opts out this year it won’t be because of the FB team or BH’s desire. Nor will it be because of a lack of funding, or to sit back and watch to see how it works or how other schools handle it.

It will be to give UM’s other sports programs time to get their houses in order. Some teams have not even started their seasons yet. Would be difficult to cut some kids right now, but the programs will be put on notice for next year
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I assume Welnel gets nothing. What will UM's cut be if they run this? All of those people are getting paid. Welnel deserves a cut for all that he is doing.

No, wink-nod appears to be here to stay on contacting players not in the portal and on communications between NIL's on the school/coaches. There is not going back on that. Pretty soon it will probably be permitted. Do you think going to revenue-sharing, which doesn't end NIL is my understanding, is going to stop schools/coaches from contacting players of other teams? Is coaches can decide on what revenue to share, what's the big deal on NIL talking to coaches about how much to pay. Opting-in doesn't evolve from anything that we are discussing.

If Hauck wants to opt-in, why isn't UM opting in? You think Haslam is overruling him?

The player limit doesn't start until the 2025-2026 school year. That's next fall. Current teams wouldn't have to cut players this year. That's not a valid excuse.

Haslam has said he wants to sit back and see what happens and what other schools do. What are you talking about?

You better ask a different guy on a bar stool, as you are getting some bad information.

How many scholarships is an additional $200,000 per year?

Good discussion. Keep it up.
 
mthoopsfan said:
I assume Welnel gets nothing. What will UM's cut be if they run this? All of those people are getting paid. Welnel deserves a cut for all that he is doing.

No, wink-nod appears to be here to stay on contacting players not in the portal and on communications between NIL's on the school/coaches. There is not going back on that. Pretty soon it will probably be permitted. Do you think going to revenue-sharing, which doesn't end NIL is my understanding, is going to stop schools/coaches from contacting players of other teams? Is coaches can decide on what revenue to share, what's the big deal on NIL talking to coaches about how much to pay. Opting-in doesn't evolve from anything that we are discussing.

If Hauck wants to opt-in, why isn't UM opting in? You think Haslam is overruling him?

The player limit doesn't start until the 2025-2026 school year. That's next fall. Current teams wouldn't have to cut players this year. That's not a valid excuse.

Haslam has said he wants to sit back and see what happens and what other schools do. What are you talking about?

You better ask a different guy on a bar stool, as you are getting some bad information.

How many scholarships is an additional $200,000 per year?

Good discussion. Keep it up.
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Welnel definitely gets paid. He’s not doing it for free. UM would not get a cut. Its employees are already getting paid from tax dollars, and not out of the donations. Thus, 100% of donations would go to NIL instead of to Welnel’s fee, and expenses, including simple things like licensing.

Good Ol' Grizzlies does not own rights to our intellectual property, that's got to be gained through our partnership with Grizzly Sports Properties. So there's some lines that are drawn there…
Good Ol' Grizzlies works through a company called SANIL — student-athlete NIL — a company that takes care of all the legal, finance, compliance, as well as the tax forms and HR processes to get athletes paid on time.

Plus, taxes often are forgotten by the student-athletes when they're paid, so Good Ol' Grizzlies and SANIL are there to remind and guide them.
With those processes taken care of by SANIL, that allows people like Welnel to network with potential boosters and donors locally as the expert in Missoula, and explaining what Good Ol' Grizzlies is and getting the word out, as many still are unaware of the collective to start, while others can be unclear to how it all works.

"The main part of my job is educating the business owners, the donors, the student-athletes, the coaches, everybody like how this works, how we can operate, how we can be most successful here at the University of Montana," Welnel said.

Fans can become members of Good Ol' Grizzlies through a variety of monthly fees, or can donate straight up, which in turn becomes money used to pay the student-athletes.
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That shit ain’t cheap.

You think he’s doing his “job” as an “expert” for free? They charge $11/month just to be a member. Dude has two masters degrees and was initially a “consultant”

He found his way to the job after completing a Capstone project focused on NIL and taking a consultant position for a national NIL company. Welnel acts as the face of the collective in Missoula, brokering deals and offering resources for local businesses and student athletes.
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Contacting players would be much cleaner. Cut out the middleman and avoid those messy situations like Saluka at UNLV.
 
garizzalies said:
Welnel definitely gets paid. He’s not doing it for free. UM would not get a cut. Its employees are already getting paid from tax dollars, and not out of the donations. Thus, 100% of donations would go to NIL instead of to Welnel’s fee, and expenses, including simple things like licensing.



That shit ain’t cheap.

You think he’s doing his “job” as an “expert” for free? They charge $11/month just to be a member. Dude has two masters degrees and was initially a “consultant”


Contacting players would be much cleaner. Cut out the middleman and avoid those messy situations like Saluka at UNLV.
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Okay, Welnel paid. Who at UM would do what he does now and do it as well as he does. Some FTE and someone with expertise and charisma would have to do the work. There would be a cost for that. Would it cost more or less than what the Welnels of the world are getting? Sorry, but UM’s running everything in-house wouldn’t be without cost and with additional personnel.

UM’s athletic budget doesn’t all come from tax dollars. In fact, tax dollars are a low percentage of the athletic budget.

You seem to think NIL would be moved in-house. That’s not the case. The opt-in allows revenue sharing. Would UM try to raise separate money for “revenue-sharing”? Is that what you are thinking? Revenue-sharing at a school like UM is offensive to me. That’s SEC stuff and, to me, borderline corruption.

Do you think UM “revenue-sharing” would be more favorable to football and basketball than NIL is now? I don’t.

I don’t see NIL as the middleman. They are the end man with the money. Player’s agents and parents are the middle men. They probably won’t get cut out.

Yes, contacting players easier.

In my view, introducing UM administrators and probably State rules would be a negative. Now, if money is needed to pay a big player, big UM supporters can be contacted and asked to put up a big chunk and UM administrators probably don’t even know about it in advance or have any say. It’s essentially a done deal before UM andministrators are notified.
 
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