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K. Ah Yat the greatest UM Quarterback

mthoopsfan said:
He would be first team all conference, and maybe all-American.
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He would struggle. Can you think of a player who transferred to the Frontier and dominated? I can think of one that went the other way and was All-Conference in the BSC.
 
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AZGrizFan said:
Here's what would make me happy:

No more 4th, 5th, 6th place finishes in the Big Sky (especially in year 7) - really just no freaking excuse for this
Outperform the 'Scats regularly and finish higher than them in the standings (Bobby's 1 for 7)
BEAT the 'Scats regularly (2 for 6)
No more home losses to 4-8 teams - damned near had TWO of them this year
Consistent deep playoff runs (quarterfinals at a minimum--1st round patsy victories only count in PR's world) - Bobby's 3-7 (2 of those quarterfinal appearances ended in losses)

We've seen the blueprint. It's been right in front of us since 2011 with the XDSU's. The 'Scats have figured it out (it appears). Why can't Bobby? He keeps insisting those players "don't exist" or are difficult to recruit, yet the 2-3 REALLY consistently successful teams seem to be able to do it.

HHB insists those days are long gone and they aren't coming back. As my boss would say, "well, not with THAT attitude." Should we just accept our fate and be happy with being above average? I hope that's not what we've sunk to.
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Being the 4th best FCS program on average, going to the playoffs, and being competitive with Cats are more important to me. Need to beat Cats more. I couldn’t care less about conference rank in an uneven conference. Nor do I care what color the jerseys are. Having good academics and a clean program are important too.
 
HikeGlacier said:
He would struggle. Can you think of a player who transferred to the Frontier and dominated? I can think of one that went the other way and was All-Conference in the BSC.
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Tyler Peterson, former Griz back-up WR and special teamer. Went to Carroll and was first team All-American at WR and National Champion. Tyler was a good gunner on special teams for the Griz. Jamie Pickens transferred from Montana to Carroll and was the Player of the Year in the NAIA and dominated the Frontier.
 
garizzalies said:
Huh? KAY is literally one of only two freshman in the discussion over the past 40 years. And I will argue ‘til the cows come home that he is better. So yeah, it is very arguable.
And I literally forgot about GJ as did pretty much everyone else, so he is obviously forgettable.

If anyone has a “narrative” or is not being “objective” here, it’s you. Not sure why you soured on BH recently, but it’s clear you have a growing bias.

Also, for the sake of discussion, Fife is like the reincarnation of GJ. Seems like they are great on the surface but something is amiss (pun intended). Like what are we not getting? Well, turns out, a lot, particularly in the locker room which we never see but the coaches and team know all too well.

GJ was probably a better passer than Fife and had better timing and anticipation but Fife might have been a better game manager although most times when Fife dropped back, I was holding my breath. Bad timing beyond WR#1 and horrible pocket awareness. Neither had the potential of KAY nor the complete QB attributes including the attitude and athleticism. KAY did something no QB has been able to do in 100 years of Griz FB. The way he sells out for the goal line cannot be coached and something GJ and Fife would never even consider.
It’s not even close in my book and I believe the coaches and players thought that too.
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Okay, so if their are only 2 QB’s that are “eligible” in the past 40 years for this discussion, and one of them is so forgettable that you didn’t even remember them…doesn’t it mean something that KAY isn’t demonstrably better statistically? Just the addition of GJ turned your argument from “definitely the best” to “arguably the best”. And of course you’re not going to talk about TD:INT ratio, because why would that matter.

I’m not saying that KAY can’t be good, or isn’t good, he’s clearly got a lot of traits that could make him a good starting QB, but right now he’s not there. And being arguably the best starting freshman QB in the past 40 years means near nothing when the sample size is two, and KAY’s stats aren’t any better than a guy who was so forgettable, you didn’t even remember him. In fact, you could’ve made this same thread right after GJ’s freshman year and had the same validity you do for this one. It’s just a bad/faulty argument.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Here's what would make me happy:

No more 4th, 5th, 6th place finishes in the Big Sky (especially in year 7) - really just no freaking excuse for this
Outperform the 'Scats regularly and finish higher than them in the standings (Bobby's 1 for 7)
BEAT the 'Scats regularly (2 for 6)
No more home losses to 4-8 teams - damned near had TWO of them this year
Consistent deep playoff runs (quarterfinals at a minimum--1st round patsy victories only count in PR's world) - Bobby's 3-7 (2 of those quarterfinal appearances ended in losses)

We've seen the blueprint. It's been right in front of us since 2011 with the XDSU's. The 'Scats have figured it out (it appears). Why can't Bobby? He keeps insisting those players "don't exist" or are difficult to recruit, yet the 2-3 REALLY consistently successful teams seem to be able to do it.

HHB insists those days are long gone and they aren't coming back. As my boss would say, "well, not with THAT attitude." Should we just accept our fate and be happy with being above average? I hope that's not what we've sunk to.
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My only question is that if it’s as simple and easy as you make it sound, why haven’t other upper echelon FCS teams been able to do it outside of MSU? If the blueprint is right there, why haven’t schools like UC Davis or Idaho or Villanova or UND been able to break through? Why haven’t schools like Sac State or Richmond or UIW been able to sustain their success year over year?

You’re probably not going to like this either, but guess who has the 2nd highest average finish in the Big Sky since 2019?

So again, you’re painting this picture that we’re a middle of the road team, but we’re seriously behind ONE team in all the things people care about, and it’s the only team we never want to be behind.
 
Ut-Grizfan said:
He also couldn't score or lead a scoring drive against PSU for an entire half. Yes he had flashes of being good but he also had stretches of being downright bad, I hope he will improve but until then I'm content to remain skeptical as imo he hasn't proven he is "the guy" just yet. As mentioned however the coaching staff this year sure as hell didn’t do him or Fife any favors.
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So...a Travis DeCuire coached player?
 
uofmman1122 said:
My only question is that if it’s as simple and easy as you make it sound, why haven’t other upper echelon FCS teams been able to do it outside of MSU? If the blueprint is right there, why haven’t schools like UC Davis or Idaho or Villanova or UND been able to break through? Why haven’t schools like Sac State or Richmond or UIW been able to sustain their success year over year?

You’re probably not going to like this either, but guess who has the 2nd highest average finish in the Big Sky since 2019?

So again, you’re painting this picture that we’re a middle of the road team, but we’re seriously behind ONE team in all the things people care about, and it’s the only team we never want to be behind.
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This has almost nothing to do with the 'Scats and I couldn't care less why those other programs haven't been able to generate success. I'm not a fan of those teams, and they don't have NEAR the resources/advantages our program has. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if we beat the 'Scats every year, if we're just gonna get our ass handed to us by the XDSU's in the playoffs.

But since you bring it up, the only reason we're 2nd highest since 2019 (notably, you leave our 2018 but whatever) is because other teams (again, the ones I couldn't care less about) come and go. We ARE a middle of the road team--it's just DIFFERENT teams ahead of us in any given year, other than MSU, who is ahead of us pretty much every year and has passed us in just about every aspect as a program. Hell, this year even NAU finished ahead of us. And now Idaho will probably slide backwards now that Eck has departed, much like Sac did with Taylor's departure and be replaced ahead of us by some other program (EWU? NAU again?)

2024 - 5th - Behind MSU, Idaho, Davis, NAU
2023 - 1st
2022 - 6th - Behind Sac, MSU, Weber, Idaho, Davis
2021 - T3rd (EWU) - behind MSU, Sac
2020 - DNP
2019 - T3rd (MSU) - behind Weber, Sac
2018 - T6th (CP) - behind ISU, Weber, MSU, Davis, EWU

So, one 1st, two 3rds, a 5th and a two 6th's in 6 years of Bobby 2.0, including a 5th and 6th in 2 of the last three years. BEHIND MSU 5/6 of those years. Behind Idaho 2 out of the last 3. Behind Davis 2 out of the last 3. That's about as middle of the road as you can get for a once proud program. And 5th place in year SEVEN of a "rebuild"? Come on...And we may have the 2nd highest average, but you wanna talk about averages? In six years, Bobby's AVERAGE finish is 4th. Comical.

And it's really comical watching people defend it. Stitt was so bad that his tenure has convinced a majority of fans that THIS is performance now defines "success". Just MAKING the playoffs. Beating the 'Scats occasionally. The odd run into the quarterfinals. Once in a blue moon catching lightning in a bottle and making the Natty.

When I look at the entire body of work, 2023 becomes the obvious outlier. And maybe this is all that we'll every be going forward.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Being the 4th best FCS program on average, going to the playoffs, and being competitive with Cats are more important to me. Need to beat Cats more. I couldn’t care less about conference rank in an uneven conference. Nor do I care what color the jerseys are. Having good academics and a clean program are important too.
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Sorry. a) I was talking ON THE FIELD as to what would make me happy. b) Just getting to the playoffs is a joke. Look at some of the teams that make it every year. Winning a gimme first round game gives me no pleasure. Guaranteed that's part of the reason why the stadium is half full for the play-in games.

And while you couldn't care less about conference rank, it's what determines home games in the playoffs. We've got reams of evidence about how the Griz (or any team, for that matter) performs on the road in the playoffs. If for no other reason than THAT, it's important, uneven conference or not.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Sorry. a) I was talking ON THE FIELD as to what would make me happy. b) Just getting to the playoffs is a joke. Look at some of the teams that make it every year. Winning a gimme first round game gives me no pleasure. Guaranteed that's part of the reason why the stadium is half full for the play-in games.
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I love all the playoff games. I flew from Phoenix to Missoula for the playoff win this season. Made the same flight 3 times last fall. The first round games have low attendance between it's Thanksgiving and people and students are gone or doing something else. That's way more of the issue than the quality of the game. So, I guarantee that you are wrong.
 
mthoopsfan said:
I love all the playoff games. I flew from Phoenix to Missoula for the playoff win this season. Made the same flight 3 times last fall. The first round games have low attendance between it's Thanksgiving and people and students are gone or doing something else. That's way more of the issue than the quality of the game. So, I guarantee that you are wrong.
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I don't come for the play-in games because a) it's thanksgiving (yes, agreed) and b) it's a guaranteed win in a half-empty stadium. And I know lots of people who don't come (many who are local) for the same reason. Both things can be true.
 
HikeGlacier said:
He would struggle. Can you think of a player who transferred to the Frontier and dominated? I can think of one that went the other way and was All-Conference in the BSC.
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Players don't drop from the Big Sky to the Frontier often at all because there is a level of FCS football and an entire division in between. Lower level FCS schools, then D2, then NAIA. Which is the same reason we shouldn't be scheduling games against NAIA teams. It is a rarity.
 
Brother Bear said:
Tyler Peterson, former Griz back-up WR and special teamer. Went to Carroll and was first team All-American at WR and National Champion. Tyler was a good gunner on special teams for the Griz. Jamie Pickens transferred from Montana to Carroll and was the Player of the Year in the NAIA and dominated the Frontier
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ElrodGrizzly said:
Players don't drop from the Big Sky to the Frontier often at all because there is a level of FCS football and an entire division in between. Lower level FCS schools, then D2, then NAIA. Which is the same reason we shouldn't be scheduling games against NAIA teams. It is a rarity.
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They drop there more than you realize.
 
AZGrizFan said:
This has almost nothing to do with the 'Scats and I couldn't care less why those other programs haven't been able to generate success. I'm not a fan of those teams, and they don't have NEAR the resources/advantages our program has. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if we beat the 'Scats every year, if we're just gonna get our ass handed to us by the XDSU's in the playoffs.

But since you bring it up, the only reason we're 2nd highest since 2019 (notably, you leave our 2018 but whatever) is because other teams (again, the ones I couldn't care less about) come and go. We ARE a middle of the road team--it's just DIFFERENT teams ahead of us in any given year, other than MSU, who is ahead of us pretty much every year and has passed us in just about every aspect as a program. Hell, this year even NAU finished ahead of us. And now Idaho will probably slide backwards now that Eck has departed, much like Sac did with Taylor's departure and be replaced ahead of us by some other program (EWU? NAU again?)

2024 - 5th - Behind MSU, Idaho, Davis, NAU
2023 - 1st
2022 - 6th - Behind Sac, MSU, Weber, Idaho, Davis
2021 - T3rd (EWU) - behind MSU, Sac
2020 - DNP
2019 - T3rd (MSU) - behind Weber, Sac
2018 - T6th (CP) - behind ISU, Weber, MSU, Davis, EWU

So, one 1st, two 3rds, a 5th and a two 6th's in 6 years of Bobby 2.0, including a 5th and 6th in 2 of the last three years. BEHIND MSU 5/6 of those years. Behind Idaho 2 out of the last 3. Behind Davis 2 out of the last 3. That's about as middle of the road as you can get for a once proud program. And 5th place in year SEVEN of a "rebuild"? Come on...And we may have the 2nd highest average, but you wanna talk about averages? In six years, Bobby's AVERAGE finish is 4th. Comical.

And it's really comical watching people defend it. Stitt was so bad that his tenure has convinced a majority of fans that THIS is performance now defines "success". Just MAKING the playoffs. Beating the 'Scats occasionally. The odd run into the quarterfinals. Once in a blue moon catching lightning in a bottle and making the Natty.

When I look at the entire body of work, 2023 becomes the obvious outlier. And maybe this is all that we'll every be going forward.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.
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I don't need to start my whole spiel again about how NAU was a fraudulent 4th place Big Sky finish because they didn't play MSU or UCD.

And I'm still just seeing you yell and scream about us being so much further behind MSU, while also telling me that they don't matter. I'm still getting from you that you think it should be incredibly easy for us to just become a top 2 team every single season. What makes you think that? I'm genuinely curious. Is it just because you feel that's where we should be? Why are we entitled to that, but other teams aren't?

I still believe (and this is just my personal opinion) that you wouldn't be this upset about it if we were 3rd best in FCS with a similar record behind NDSU and SDSU, and MSU was more like UC Davis, where they have good years, but also years where they suck. I think you believe it's easy because MSU has done it, and I'm not saying it's unreasonable to think that. I just think MSU has a lot more going for it right now than we do, and I don't think it's something that a change in football staff could just magically correct in a year or two.
 
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