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What’s not clicking and why?

C

Coach Armchair

Active member
Long-time observer, minimal poster. I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve not played ball at this level. Though, I did have much interest from many schools, including UM. That said, I don’t have the knowledge and experience of this level of football at an intimate level (this is for hoops, because I don’t want to get into a useless pissing match, but I welcome your feedback).

Today’s game can’t be blamed on any one thing, it was largely expected. MSU is just in a different position than us this year. But, why? We have some talent gaps, maybe, compared to last year, though I’m not convinced completely. I was overall impressed with our defense today, offense didn’t answer the call. And that’s a testament to MSU’s defense.

I’m also not a complete Bobby hater. Do I believe there is plenty that can be done better? Sure. But, look where we’re at as a program. It may not be where we want it to be this year, but larger picture it is in a really good place.

That said, we have so many pieces. NFL experienced coaches, good talent (albeit, not elite on all levels, but sufficient), Montana kids (which brings congruence because of the culture of the programs and the state), and an atmosphere and fan base that BRINGS IT and is so invested that it may bring unrealistic expectations to some.

So, what isn’t clicking and why? Even Ryan Tirrell said in the post-game that they’ve yet to play a complete game. Is it play calling? (Some may argue it was conservative today), talent (we may have just been outplayed physically). Do the players buy in? Are the coaches doing enough? I honestly don’t know and the answer is probably all the above.

I wasn’t surprised with today’s outcome and while I’m disappointed, I’m not going to complain about it because of that. But, why aren’t all the components clicking? What really is it? Have the coaches lost a little luster in today’s college football environment? Is the talent just not quite elite enough for another run? Can we put it all together? If so, how? I’ve not lost hope, but I don’t know what that looks like and as fans we will never truly understand the full story because of our bias.

As always Go Griz and FTC. Also, credit where credit is due, we got outgamed today. So, how do we move forward and play a complete game? What has to change that is actually attainable on a short term?
 
I don't think the coaches or players know why the team hasn't gotten to where they think they should be. And I certainly don't know. I'm hoping it happens next week. Maybe it will, and maybe it won't. I have never criticized your posts, and wouldn't. I assumed you had either coached or played the game.
 
IMO it starts with coaches then it trickles downward to the players they recruit(coaches) then down to how they are coached. We are not a disciplined football team(coaches). To many costly penalties because of that this whole season. Play calling is a factor(coaches).There are some inner problems we see and possibly more we do not which effects the players (coaches).So it starts with the coaches and ends with the coaches.
 
mthoopsfan said:
I don't think the coaches or players know why the team hasn't gotten to where they think they should be. And I certainly don't know. I'm hoping it happens next week. Maybe it will, and maybe it won't. I have never criticized your posts, and wouldn't. I assumed you had either coached or played the game.
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Have played and still coach at MT high school. Not that that says much for the topic at hand. Here’s to hoping it happens next week!
 
oldngrizzly said:
IMO it starts with coaches then it trickles downward to the players they recruit(coaches) then down to how they are coached. We are not a disciplined football team(coaches). To many costly penalties because of that this whole season. Play calling is a factor(coaches).There are some inner problems we see and possibly more we do not which effects the players (coaches).So it starts with the coaches and ends with the coaches.
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One way or another, it has to all trickle down from the top. Programmatic leadership is about empowering your people, not just leading them. Being a small business owner, I look at it this way: I can have the most theoretically successful business model there is out there, everyone wants what we offer and it’s needed. But, if my business culture sucks and no one wants to work for my business, my business fails. You tailor your business to your people so they work well for you, then your business can deliver your product effectively.

Not saying this is completely the case with the Griz program. But, room for improvement is showing. Accountability of a program has to start from the top, even if the issue is not due to negligence. Ownership is just as contagious throughout a program as the lack thereof. And the latter creates systemic issues.
 
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Coach Armchair said:
Long-time observer, minimal poster. I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve not played ball at this level. Though, I did have much interest from many schools, including UM. That said, I don’t have the knowledge and experience of this level of football at an intimate level (this is for hoops, because I don’t want to get into a useless pissing match, but I welcome your feedback).

Today’s game can’t be blamed on any one thing, it was largely expected. MSU is just in a different position than us this year. But, why? We have some talent gaps, maybe, compared to last year, though I’m not convinced completely. I was overall impressed with our defense today, offense didn’t answer the call. And that’s a testament to MSU’s defense.

I’m also not a complete Bobby hater. Do I believe there is plenty that can be done better? Sure. But, look where we’re at as a program. It may not be where we want it to be this year, but larger picture it is in a really good place.

That said, we have so many pieces. NFL experienced coaches, good talent (albeit, not elite on all levels, but sufficient), Montana kids (which brings congruence because of the culture of the programs and the state), and an atmosphere and fan base that BRINGS IT and is so invested that it may bring unrealistic expectations to some.

So, what isn’t clicking and why? Even Ryan Tirrell said in the post-game that they’ve yet to play a complete game. Is it play calling? (Some may argue it was conservative today), talent (we may have just been outplayed physically). Do the players buy in? Are the coaches doing enough? I honestly don’t know and the answer is probably all the above.

I wasn’t surprised with today’s outcome and while I’m disappointed, I’m not going to complain about it because of that. But, why aren’t all the components clicking? What really is it? Have the coaches lost a little luster in today’s college football environment? Is the talent just not quite elite enough for another run? Can we put it all together? If so, how? I’ve not lost hope, but I don’t know what that looks like and as fans we will never truly understand the full story because of our bias.

As always Go Griz and FTC. Also, credit where credit is due, we got outgamed today. So, how do we move forward and play a complete game? What has to change that is actually attainable on a short term?
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I know Hoops will disagree with me, but first and foremost this staff has very much mismanaged the QB situation. Playing musical quarterbacks based on Bobby’s “feeling” has made it so nobody gets any sort of momentum going. Add in some odd play calling and sprinkle some underperforming offensive line and you have a recipe for whatever the hell happened today.

After careful consideration I am withdrawing some of my criticisms on D. They fought hard, but were outclassed by the kitties today. I will say that there needs to be more beef on the D-line. They are being beaten at the point of attack and surrendering the line of scrimmage. Not that they aren’t trying, there just isn’t enough upfront to seriously challenge a good O-line.
 
PDXGrizzly said:
I know Hoops will disagree with me, but first and foremost this staff has very much mismanaged the QB situation. Playing musical quarterbacks based on Bobby’s “feeling” has made it so nobody gets any sort of momentum going. Add in some odd play calling and sprinkle some underperforming offensive line and you have a recipe for whatever the hell happened today.

After careful consideration I am withdrawing some of my criticisms on D. They fought hard, but were outclassed by the kitties today. I will say that there needs to be more beef on the D-line. They are being beaten at the point of attack and surrendering the line of scrimmage. Not that they aren’t trying, there just isn’t enough upfront to seriously challenge a good O-line.
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Didn't Fife play the whole game, and knew he would? Note that I have said little on the QB situation, after saying that I liked Fife from the get-go and thought, some time ago, that we'd seen enough of the 2 QB thing.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Didn't Fife play the whole game, and knew he would?
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I’m not commenting on what you said, just that I don’t think you will agree with me.

Momentum and consistency carries from game to game. It compounds on itself (or at least it can). It has been clear that Fife had the better chance to win since before mid season. That the rotation was still happening last week is what I was talking about.

Don’t get me wrong, I really WANT the staff to have been right with their call of the situation. They just weren’t and took far too long to admit it.
 
I agree PDX: we won the '95 and '01 NC's playing a base 4-3-4 defense under DC's Jerome Souers and Mike Breske. When Bobby is retired in 2018, he brings in veteran Coach Ken Baer and this 3-3-5 defense.

With all due respect to Coach Baer, who has forgotten more about football than I will ever know, I think the 3-3-5 is too gimmicky, with all of these elaborate stunts, stems, twists and stunts. And something that stuck with me after NDSU pounded us in Fargo two years ago was their starting QB Cam Miller after the Bison ripped off 3-4 long TD runs in the second half when he said he and his coaches knew with all of our exotic movement on the D line that if the Bison kept pounding the ball between the tackles, they would eventually find gaps that they could blow through with nothing but green in front of them !!! And they did !!!

I think it's time to return to the 4-3, with 280-300 lb DT's like Gubner to both stuff the run and rush the QB and with true DE's on the edges to seal the edges and rush the QB, like Kroy Biermann and Tyrone Holmes !!!

And the QB rotation by " feel " has been an unmitigated disaster--if we had stuck with Logan Fife as our starter, we finish the sesson 9-3 or 10-2, with a win over ND, Davis or both !!!
 
The 3-3-5 defense is Hauck’s from his time at SDSU. It was not Baer’s defense. He also didn’t care for it but Hauck was unwilling to veer from it. Still is even when he doesn’t have the players for it, this year namely. You MUST have a solid defensive line. Then if you have studs at LB, you have yourself a good defense. We don’t have the DL or the LB this year. Too small and too slow.
 
The 3-3-5 is not a bad defense. The 1-5-5 is problematic. Hank Nuce (who never intended to play football after HS) is our only DE over 260 and he is a rotational player. Give me 11 Ronnie Lotts and we still lose to the big uglies. (Okay maybe not Ronnie Lott because he was a God, but still...)
 
Coach Armchair said:
Long-time observer, minimal poster. I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve not played ball at this level. Though, I did have much interest from many schools, including UM. That said, I don’t have the knowledge and experience of this level of football at an intimate level (this is for hoops, because I don’t want to get into a useless pissing match, but I welcome your feedback).

Today’s game can’t be blamed on any one thing, it was largely expected. MSU is just in a different position than us this year. But, why? We have some talent gaps, maybe, compared to last year, though I’m not convinced completely. I was overall impressed with our defense today, offense didn’t answer the call. And that’s a testament to MSU’s defense.

I’m also not a complete Bobby hater. Do I believe there is plenty that can be done better? Sure. But, look where we’re at as a program. It may not be where we want it to be this year, but larger picture it is in a really good place.

That said, we have so many pieces. NFL experienced coaches, good talent (albeit, not elite on all levels, but sufficient), Montana kids (which brings congruence because of the culture of the programs and the state), and an atmosphere and fan base that BRINGS IT and is so invested that it may bring unrealistic expectations to some.

So, what isn’t clicking and why? Even Ryan Tirrell said in the post-game that they’ve yet to play a complete game. Is it play calling? (Some may argue it was conservative today), talent (we may have just been outplayed physically). Do the players buy in? Are the coaches doing enough? I honestly don’t know and the answer is probably all the above.

I wasn’t surprised with today’s outcome and while I’m disappointed, I’m not going to complain about it because of that. But, why aren’t all the components clicking? What really is it? Have the coaches lost a little luster in today’s college football environment? Is the talent just not quite elite enough for another run? Can we put it all together? If so, how? I’ve not lost hope, but I don’t know what that looks like and as fans we will never truly understand the full story because of our bias.

As always Go Griz and FTC. Also, credit where credit is due, we got outgamed today. So, how do we move forward and play a complete game? What has to change that is actually attainable on a short term?
Click to expand...
It was great finally hearing a reporter call Bobby out.
 
The issue starts with the offensive line not providing enough gaps/holes for the runners to run through AND providing enough time for any QB to throw the ball to mid and long distances.
That is why there are lots of screens and bubble passes
The foundation of the whole offense is the line. If that is not strong then the rest of the offense will suffer
 
This team needs a coach who will have success and move on after 5 or 6 years. A bright coach who knows how to fix problems. Somehow Hauck has achieved Joe Paterno like status and its not deserved. I watched him call out a reporter for asking a stupid question on the post game interview. While it was a lame question, Bobby appears classless when compared to Vegen. He is old and should have learned that behavior isnt beneficial to him. I'm ready for the Hauck era to be over.
 
BillingsMafia said:
This team needs a coach who will have success and move on after 5 or 6 years. A bright coach who knows how to fix problems. Somehow Hauck has achieved Joe Paterno like status and its not deserved. I watched him call out a reporter for asking a stupid question on the post game interview. While it was a lame question, Bobby appears classless when compared to Vegen. He is old and should have learned that behavior isnt beneficial to him. I'm ready for the Hauck era to be over.
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It was a great question.
 
SaskGriz said:
The 3-3-5 is not a bad defense. The 1-5-5 is problematic. Hank Nuce (who never intended to play football after HS) is our only DE over 260 and he is a rotational player. Give me 11 Ronnie Lotts and we still lose to the big uglies. (Okay maybe not Ronnie Lott because he was a God, but still...)
Click to expand...
Is Nuce that big? He has been starting recently.
 
BillingsMafia said:
This team needs a coach who will have success and move on after 5 or 6 years. A bright coach who knows how to fix problems. Somehow Hauck has achieved Joe Paterno like status and its not deserved. I watched him call out a reporter for asking a stupid question on the post game interview. While it was a lame question, Bobby appears classless when compared to Vegen. He is old and should have learned that behavior isnt beneficial to him. I'm ready for the Hauck era to be over.
Click to expand...
What was the question? Who asked it? I haven't watched any pressers from yesterday yet.
 
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