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Why Griz fell behind NDSU

PTGrizzly said:
Regarding being a contender, I can say I don't have anything concrete. I think most football knowledgeable fans know one when they see one. We're all going to disagree on what that is though.

Of course kids want money. But what Alabama and the rest of the Power 5 is dealing with is different than what we are. They're talking millions, we're talking thousands. Different level of recruit, different expectations from both parties.

Sac State's NIL program was conditional on going to the Pac-12. There is little, to no, information about it. We do not know if people have actually put up funds, or if they just said they would. We don't know if that $35 million is spread out over multiple years, or if it's annual. I will say this though. If you think they're dealing with millions in NIL fund, you have got to be out of your mind. They don't have that kind of scratch while they're in the BSC. And quite frankly, there's no reason they should be out competing Montana in NIL funds.

I have talked about what advantages Montana has. Consistently competitive teams. Great facilities. Great connections. Great fan base, constantly sold out stadiums. A place where you're the big shot of town. Good coaching. Winning football with as much national attention as any other FCS program. History of NFL players. History of scouts coming to practices and games.

Do you really think that the majority of the time, Incarnate Word or SFA is going to beat UM for a recruit? That Sac State or Davis will beat Montana for a recruit? That Idaho would? We all know that we should expect to beat those schools out in recruiting and on the field. Missoula is a premier program, those other schools aren't. That still matters in recruiting. Players still want to win. You refuse to name a program that has a clear, overall, recruiting advantage over Montana other than the DSU's.
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Montana is not going to win the recruiting battle for every recruit, including the lesser schools you mentioned. And every recruit isn’t going to even look at UM. Even an FBS dream staff wouldn’t get everyone they wanted, including from other FCS schools. Any credible or good program with a big NIL fund has advantages over UM.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Montana is not going to win the recruiting battle for every recruit, including the lesser schools you mentioned. And every recruit isn’t going to even look at UM. Even an FBS dream staff wouldn’t get everyone they wanted, including from other FCS schools. Any credible or good program with a big NIL fund has advantages over UM.
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I never said they’d win for every recruit. No need to make things up, Jack.
 
gotgame75 said:
As of now, that challenge looks like a pipe dream. It doesn't look to me like, from both a talent and coaching standpoint, we are anywhere near the Dakotas.

Where is the young coaching talent on this staff? If Bobby retired, who on the currennt staff would you be confident in turning to?

If prior to Hauck 2.0, someone had told you we'd appear in one championship over 7 seasons (in a historically weak FCS), would that meet your definition of success?
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In response to who to turn to if Bobby retires, I would like to see Justin Green get a shot.
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
Man. .22 caliber mind in a .357 magnum world. Gotta be tough. Just when I thought we were starting to get each other's humor, too.
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When your old and been thru a lot in life humor is sometimes hard to comprehend. Not looking for sympathy just stating a fact. I can now see the forest thru the trees thou with HHB's help.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Why do you believe that?
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Because UM is a better overall program in all facets, and kids still care about winning?

I can’t believe this is a real discussion. Why do I think UM should beat the majority of their peers in recruiting? I shouldn’t even have to say! I guarandamntee NDSU doesn’t think they’ll be losing recruits to Missouri State.
 
PeauxRouge said:
In response to who to turn to if Bobby retires, I would like to see Justin Green get a shot.
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I could live with that. Awhile back, someone commented on young coaches, “growing” coaches, like at NDSU. That is never going to happen while Bobby is in charge. When he returned, he got rid of all the young coaches, those who might question his ‘old style’ manner of coaching. As a result, his coaching staff consists of men who are essentially his peers, or older. I’m not so much complaining about Bobby’s style as pointing out what it is.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Montana is not going to win the recruiting battle for every recruit, including the lesser schools you mentioned. And every recruit isn’t going to even look at UM. Even an FBS dream staff wouldn’t get everyone they wanted, including from other FCS schools. Any credible or good program with a big NIL fund has advantages over UM.
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But.....Recruiting in more than offers. UM could offer every 4/5 star and has zero chance but who cares if they offer if they can't get them to sign. Where the rubber meets the road is SIGNING those recruited not who you offer. This is where 2.0 is not doing what 1.0 did. A key importance is being able to sign the recruits that you are battling teams you might play against. We will never paly Alabama so if they sign one we would like who cares. What has to be done is out recruit those teams we actually compete against (especially when going head to head for a recruit). This means winning battles and actually "signing" recruits that we battle it out with MSU/Idaho/other BSC schools and the 4 Dakotas. Offers mean nothing if you can't land them for the success of a team. I agree it is a different battlefield now than in 1.0 since teams have shifted in their ability to now sell there programs based on recent success etc. You can't build a powerhouse when you just win battles against frontier schools.

The University has done about everything it can to give the staff all the tools. Arguably, if not the best right there if not better in all of FCS despite other program fans opinions. Just look at what recruits wonder about: Stadium...locker rooms....champion center...recovery center...indoor practice facility...fast rising collective (helps against those than can offer true cost as well), devoted fan base, sold out stadiums with best atmosphere. Donors pockets have been hit very hard to get these facilities but they aren't the ones that do the in home visits or explain what the program will be like for the individual. There are current Cat players parents that will discuss what tipped the scales if you know them and just ask them, **trigger warning** you might not like all that you hear.

Some will say "well we don't offer engineering" newsflash to those that give this excuse not many football recruits enter that major and we didn't offer during 1.0 either. Bottom line the staff has all they should need to win majority battles in their toolbox. Of course they wont win all but apparently need to win more to get to the level of success of 1.0 without relying on the gamble of the portal. It has been well discussed in other threads that they lost of portal guys they thought they might get and ended up going down the "draft board". Signing recruits falls on coaches, do they still have a football program/style/culture to get kids to say YES, or not? If not, can/will they make adjustments needed or is the old way still the only way. Can they? Yes Will they? Unknown Guess we will see who eventually signs, and who we offered that went to close competitors.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
All you recruiting experts make it sound like all UM has to do is drop their panties and all the boys will come running.
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Not at all.

I’ll put it this way. If a players best offers are Idaho, Sac State, and UM, then I believe 7/10 times, I expect that player to pick UM. I’m not going to sit there and act like I’d be happy otherwise. But if you guys are happy to just be participating, then good for you.
 
PTGrizzly said:
Not at all.

I’ll put it this way. If a players best offers are Idaho, Sac State, and UM, then I believe 7/10 times, I expect that player to pick UM. I’m not going to sit there and act like I’d be happy otherwise. But if you guys are happy to just be participating, then good for you.
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What if 5/10 prefer warm weather and pick Sac? What if 2/10 have a girlfriend at Washington St and want to be close? You want to assume all is equal, and the reality, it's not.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
What if 5/10 prefer warm weather and pick Sac? What if 2/10 have a girlfriend at Washington St and want to be close? You want to assume all is equal, and the reality, it's not.
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Over time things average out. Better programs get better recruits. Some coaches recruit better than others. There’s a lot of factors.

It’s not hard to say that UM should be getting better recruits than Sac, Davis, Idaho, etc. That’s what I’m trying to get at.
 
PTGrizzly said:
Over time things average out. Better programs get better recruits. Some coaches recruit better than others. There’s a lot of factors.

It’s not hard to say that UM should be getting better recruits than Sac, Davis, Idaho, etc. That’s what I’m trying to get at.
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I am one that believes geography and finances matters at the FCS level. Montana doesn't really recruit head to head but with a small number of schools. I would guess they don't recruit against Sac & Davis very often, and as such, have no problem believing that both those schools can recruit the same caliber kids as UM. I doubt they barely ever recruit head to head with NDSU or SDSU.
 
PTGrizzly said:
Because UM is a better overall program in all facets, and kids still care about winning?

I can’t believe this is a real discussion. Why do I think UM should beat the majority of their peers in recruiting? I shouldn’t even have to say! I guarandamntee NDSU doesn’t think they’ll be losing recruits to Missouri State.
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In this day and age HS kids are becoming more chosey about what they major in. There has been a lot of attention paid to whether or not it's worth getting a college education considering the price and time commitment. The liberal arts schools such as Montana have fallen a bit out of favor, right or wrong. Let's face it, engineering provides by far the best bang for the buck for the students financial success and kids know that. Isn't it odd that UM is the only school in the BSC that doesn't offer a degree in an ABET accredited engineering program? I understand that very few college football players have the academic fortitude to complete a BS in engineering but many want to at least try. I think currently that is hurting the UM's recruiting.
 
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