WR Talk

[PlayerRep]

People are putting way too much pressure on the Oline. I get how important it is but we will do things to negate it with Dalton.

Rosie is going to get the ball out quick. To Jerry, Sulser, Curran, Bingham, Akeem.....

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

 

[4theluvofgriz]

Pausing their growth? We can argue the pluses and minuses forever, but I go back to three key points: 1) We have 5,6, or 7 very good (if not great) WRs without Sulser. There can not be much drop-off from him as a true frosh compared to our top 5-7 guys 2) I have no doubt that our team will be MUCH STRONGER 3-4 years from now than the one Bobby inherited, so why waste a year of his eligibility on a team not strong enough to compete for a NC? 3) I don't think anyone would disagree that Sulser would be much better as a 5th-year senior than he will be as a true frosh.

Again, just my opinion. Sulser is a rare talent who comes along infrequently. Play him in his 4 games..... but don't be tempted to play him enough to lose his red-shirt year.

I disagree with your 5th year because we cant even promise he will be here for a 5th year. we can promise he is here for year 1.

Hell, none of us know we will be here in 5 years! So, burn him this season, when we are going nowhere, because there is a slight chance he will not be here in 5 years??? Not my logic. Now that Thayne Jackson is gone, it is the nail in the coffin for this season. No team wins without a solid O-line, and ours will be too young and inexperienced to be factor. Let's just waste a re-building year on Sulser. Makes sense to me!

Maybe in 4 years our o-line will suck and we wont have a QB! maybe we should redshirt him then!! All I'm literally telling you how coaches look at a redshirt and figure out if they play them or sit them and you just wanna argue cause you think the all important 5th year senior means something. It doesn't....The best players usually are never 5th year seniors. everyone thought stitt would have a really good team his 3rd year...he didn't...talent wise it was about the same as his first. What if we redshirted Buss because...oh well be great 5 years from now and he will be more important.(hint: That's not what happened) now look at the situation. Once again its dependent on balancing all the factors and if Sulser will compete and make the team better...maybe coaches don't think he will and so he will redshirt, but they will make a RATIONAL decision. That is the key between good decision making and poor decision making in almost every aspect of life. are you, are they, are we making RATIONAL decisions based on the information. just redshirting most or all freshman because 5th year seniors are "better" and we will be "better" is not a RATIONAL decision

You don't have to be a jerk just because I have a different opinion than yours. Sabin has been quoted as saying that he wants to red-shirt all freshman, but the NFL early-entry rules prevents him from doing so. Montana doesn't have to worry about losing players to the NFL early.

Finally, if our O-line and QB suck in four years, then Hauck will have totally failed as a coach, and this whole discussion becomes moot.

Joe Glenn wasted a year of PT for Jefferson Heidlberger by using him for a few meaningless plays in his frosh year, and every Griz fan I know thinks that it was a big mistake. I am done "arguing" with you, because you seem to be way smarter than me, and I should just accept that fact.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

I disagree with your 5th year because we cant even promise he will be here for a 5th year. we can promise he is here for year 1.

Hell, none of us know we will be here in 5 years! So, burn him this season, when we are going nowhere, because there is a slight chance he will not be here in 5 years??? Not my logic. Now that Thayne Jackson is gone, it is the nail in the coffin for this season. No team wins without a solid O-line, and ours will be too young and inexperienced to be factor. Let's just waste a re-building year on Sulser. Makes sense to me!

Maybe in 4 years our o-line will suck and we wont have a QB! maybe we should redshirt him then!! All I'm literally telling you how coaches look at a redshirt and figure out if they play them or sit them and you just wanna argue cause you think the all important 5th year senior means something. It doesn't....The best players usually are never 5th year seniors. everyone thought stitt would have a really good team his 3rd year...he didn't...talent wise it was about the same as his first. What if we redshirted Buss because...oh well be great 5 years from now and he will be more important.(hint: That's not what happened) now look at the situation. Once again its dependent on balancing all the factors and if Sulser will compete and make the team better...maybe coaches don't think he will and so he will redshirt, but they will make a RATIONAL decision. That is the key between good decision making and poor decision making in almost every aspect of life. are you, are they, are we making RATIONAL decisions based on the information. just redshirting most or all freshman because 5th year seniors are "better" and we will be "better" is not a RATIONAL decision

You don't have to be a jerk just because I have a different opinion than yours. Sabin has been quoted as saying that he wants to red-shirt all freshman, but the NFL early-entry rules prevents him from doing so. Montana doesn't have to worry about losing players to the NFL early.

Finally, if our O-line and QB suck in four years, then Hauck will have totally failed as a coach, and this whole discussion becomes moot.

Joe Glenn wasted a year of PT for Jefferson Heidlberger by using him for a few meaningless plays in his frosh year, and every Griz fan I know thinks that it was a big mistake. I am done "arguing" with you, because you seem to be way smarter than me, and I should just accept that fact.

Yea. if guys quit because of CTE or other injuries in 4 years than Hauck sucks...you're right :roll: . We aren't talking about a few meaningless plays here. Were talking about full PT and impacting the team. I also think it would be a huge mistake to play a player for just a few snaps and waste a red-shirt (won't happen with the new rule). I didn't really enjoy us burning Jordan Johnson's red-shirt when we did. I don't even know if Sulser will be impactful enough to not redshirt, but from what I have seen and heard...he is. We can disagree on that and that's fine. The idea that ALL players are better off red-shirting and being a 5th year player vs playing 4 straight up...is incorrect. Some players literally stop their growth as a player by waiting a year. The new rule should help that issues. Some are good enough that they don't need it, and sometimes it's nice to have a RS laying around if an injury or something does come up. I apologize if it sounded like I was being a jerk. Just was trying to express the fact that red-shirting is not always a good thing and have a conversation about it. :thumb:

 

[Yukon]

JJ's red shirt came in pretty handy in 2012.

 

[ilovethecats]

comparing what schools like 'bama can do to what we can do, especially in regards to redshirting is silly. of COURSE saban would redshirt every freshman...he has NFL quality depth at nearly every position. i'd try to do the same thing!


if we've learned anything in sports it's that nothing is a guarantee. kids might not be around next season...let alone 5 years from now. sure they 'd likely be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and much more experienced in five years. they also could be gone because of injury, suspension, grades, personal life, etc.


I think the main thing to consider is that more times than not these 17-18 year olds aren't ready to play as freshman. it makes the decision real easy. but every now and then you get a kid that is ready to play. if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him.

just my 2 cents. I don't think the redshirt topic is as much as a science as some like to make it.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

JJ's red shirt came in pretty handy in 2012.

That's right...Im a moron. I don't know who the hell Im thinking of that we burned. :lol:

 

[mtgrizfankb]

comparing what schools like 'bama can do to what we can do, especially in regards to redshirting is silly. of COURSE saban would redshirt every freshman...he has NFL quality depth at nearly every position. i'd try to do the same thing!


if we've learned anything in sports it's that nothing is a guarantee. kids might not be around next season...let alone 5 years from now. sure they 'd likely be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and much more experienced in five years. they also could be gone because of injury, suspension, grades, personal life, etc.


I think the main thing to consider is that more times than not these 17-18 year olds aren't ready to play as freshman. it makes the decision real easy. but every now and then you get a kid that is ready to play. if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him.

just my 2 cents. I don't think the redshirt topic is as much as a science as some like to make it.

I almost agreed with a cat fan. until the end. Red shirting is a big deal. Some players leave programs because of it. Some change positions because of it. This new rule I think will help that a bunch BUT it's still a very difficult decision when there is a player than has talent to play right away

 

[4theluvofgriz]

comparing what schools like 'bama can do to what we can do, especially in regards to redshirting is silly. of COURSE saban would redshirt every freshman...he has NFL quality depth at nearly every position. i'd try to do the same thing!


if we've learned anything in sports it's that nothing is a guarantee. kids might not be around next season...let alone 5 years from now. sure they 'd likely be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and much more experienced in five years. they also could be gone because of injury, suspension, grades, personal life, etc.


I think the main thing to consider is that more times than not these 17-18 year olds aren't ready to play as freshman. it makes the decision real easy. but every now and then you get a kid that is ready to play. if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him.

just my 2 cents. I don't think the redshirt topic is as much as a science as some like to make it.

And, this statement by you says it all regarding the Sulser discussion. The WR position at Montana goes 7-deep with high quality......, you wrote:

"if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him."

Your other point about comparing Alabama to us is interesting too. Yes, Bama just replaces every player leaving early with another kid who is just as good. If you remember the 20 years of Griz dominance, we too had the ability to do that, so the comparisons at our relative levels of play are valid. Can we do this now??? Hell no, because we have no depth at any position except WR.

 

[ilovethecats]

comparing what schools like 'bama can do to what we can do, especially in regards to redshirting is silly. of COURSE saban would redshirt every freshman...he has NFL quality depth at nearly every position. i'd try to do the same thing!


if we've learned anything in sports it's that nothing is a guarantee. kids might not be around next season...let alone 5 years from now. sure they 'd likely be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and much more experienced in five years. they also could be gone because of injury, suspension, grades, personal life, etc.


I think the main thing to consider is that more times than not these 17-18 year olds aren't ready to play as freshman. it makes the decision real easy. but every now and then you get a kid that is ready to play. if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him.

just my 2 cents. I don't think the redshirt topic is as much as a science as some like to make it.

I almost agreed with a cat fan. until the end. Red shirting is a big deal. Some players leave programs because of it. Some change positions because of it. This new rule I think will help that a bunch BUT it's still a very difficult decision when there is a player than has talent to play right away

if you would have read carefully you TOTALLY would have agreed with a cat fan.

i think the concept of redshirting is very important. I agree with everything you said. I don't think it's the science some like to make it. like a set formula. coaches are forced to make these decisions based on a plethora of factors. fans can sit on the outside looking in and say how wrong these decisons are but they're often not black and white.

 

[ilovethecats]

comparing what schools like 'bama can do to what we can do, especially in regards to redshirting is silly. of COURSE saban would redshirt every freshman...he has NFL quality depth at nearly every position. i'd try to do the same thing!


if we've learned anything in sports it's that nothing is a guarantee. kids might not be around next season...let alone 5 years from now. sure they 'd likely be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and much more experienced in five years. they also could be gone because of injury, suspension, grades, personal life, etc.


I think the main thing to consider is that more times than not these 17-18 year olds aren't ready to play as freshman. it makes the decision real easy. but every now and then you get a kid that is ready to play. if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him.

just my 2 cents. I don't think the redshirt topic is as much as a science as some like to make it.

And, this statement by you says it all regarding the Sulser discussion. The WR position at Montana goes 7-deep with high quality......, you wrote:

"if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him."

Your other point about comparing Alabama to us is interesting too. Yes, Bama just replaces every player leaving early with another kid who is just as good. If you remember the 20 years of Griz dominance, we too had the ability to do that, so the comparisons at our relative levels of play are valid. Can we do this now??? Hell no, because we have no depth at any position except WR.

I used the bama comparison because someone commented that nick saban is on record saying he'd redshirt every freshman ever. I was pointing out that is a luxury he has that almost no school has.

to my first point you quoted, what if your current coaching staff right now thinks this kid is better or as good as ever player older than him? what if they view him as a can't-miss talent that could mean more wins this season. if they view him this way, no reason to not have him on the field.

if they view him a quality player that may possibly get on the field here and there, make a few plays but otherwise not have much of an impact then sure, redshirting is a great option.

my point is these decisions are based on what coaches see day in and day out and might not jive 100% with what fans read on the internet....

 

[horribilisfan8184]

People are putting way too much pressure on the Oline. I get how important it is but we will do things to negate it with Dalton.

Rosie is going to get the ball out quick. To Jerry, Sulser, Curran, Bingham, Akeem.....

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

So did Stitt........
(just a little fodder for the dink and dunk hater crowd)

 

[PlayerRep]

People are putting way too much pressure on the Oline. I get how important it is but we will do things to negate it with Dalton.

Rosie is going to get the ball out quick. To Jerry, Sulser, Curran, Bingham, Akeem.....

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

So did Stitt........
(just a little fodder for the dink and dunk hater crowd)

I don't agree on your Stitt comment. Also, the swing pass bubble screen thing was sometimes not a quick pass. To me, getting it out quick means making a quick read and releasing the ball early before the pass rush can get near the qb and before the defender can react up to the receiver. Just like Sneed did in his first couple drives in the spring game. A lot of teams did the same thing to UM, and UM sometimes had trouble defending against this.

Obviously, there are many types of passes and different ways to accomplish them.

 

[4theluvofgriz]

comparing what schools like 'bama can do to what we can do, especially in regards to redshirting is silly. of COURSE saban would redshirt every freshman...he has NFL quality depth at nearly every position. i'd try to do the same thing!


if we've learned anything in sports it's that nothing is a guarantee. kids might not be around next season...let alone 5 years from now. sure they 'd likely be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and much more experienced in five years. they also could be gone because of injury, suspension, grades, personal life, etc.


I think the main thing to consider is that more times than not these 17-18 year olds aren't ready to play as freshman. it makes the decision real easy. but every now and then you get a kid that is ready to play. if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him.

just my 2 cents. I don't think the redshirt topic is as much as a science as some like to make it.

And, this statement by you says it all regarding the Sulser discussion. The WR position at Montana goes 7-deep with high quality......, you wrote:

"if you have great depth at his position than unless he is far away better than sure, redshirt him. but if you have a kid ready to play, no depth at his position, and you think he can help you win games RIGHT NOW....I think you have to play him."

Your other point about comparing Alabama to us is interesting too. Yes, Bama just replaces every player leaving early with another kid who is just as good. If you remember the 20 years of Griz dominance, we too had the ability to do that, so the comparisons at our relative levels of play are valid. Can we do this now??? Hell no, because we have no depth at any position except WR.

I used the bama comparison because someone commented that nick saban is on record saying he'd redshirt every freshman ever. I was pointing out that is a luxury he has that almost no school has.

to my first point you quoted, what if your current coaching staff right now thinks this kid is better or as good as ever player older than him? what if they view him as a can't-miss talent that could mean more wins this season. if they view him this way, no reason to not have him on the field.

if they view him a quality player that may possibly get on the field here and there, make a few plays but otherwise not have much of an impact then sure, redshirting is a great option.

my point is these decisions are based on what coaches see day in and day out and might not jive 100% with what fans read on the internet....

Couple of comments. Looks like you didn't read the discussion posts on this topic. I agree 100% that a coach must evaluate each potential player for red-shirt. But, we are VERY DEEP at the WR receiver position, and will have trouble WITHOUT SULSER get enough snaps to spread among the studs we have now. If Sulser starts, we will have 3-4 great WRs sitting on the bench on every snap. If Sulser played another position, and was that good as a frosh, it would be a "need" situation, and I would play him. But, there is no way I burn his red-shirt this year because of the glut of quality WRs we already have. No way I am changing my opinion here.

Tru Johnson was clearly waaaay better as a true frosh than any CB we had, so it was smart to play him immediately. To me, that is a rarity at the FCS level, more than the FBS level, where so many 5-star frosh come into a program.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

People are putting way too much pressure on the Oline. I get how important it is but we will do things to negate it with Dalton.

Rosie is going to get the ball out quick. To Jerry, Sulser, Curran, Bingham, Akeem.....

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

So did Stitt........
(just a little fodder for the dink and dunk hater crowd)

I don't agree on your Stitt comment. Also, the swing pass bubble screen thing was sometimes not a quick pass. To me, getting it out quick means making a quick read and releasing the ball early before the pass rush can get near the qb and before the defender can react up to the receiver. Just like Sneed did in his first couple drives in the spring game. A lot of teams did the same thing to UM, and UM sometimes had trouble defending against this.

Obviously, there are many types of passes and different ways to accomplish them.

Easy big guy, I wasn't fishing for you nor did I mean for the pass description to be taken "literally".

 

[fanofzoo]

People are putting way too much pressure on the Oline. I get how important it is but we will do things to negate it with Dalton.

Rosie is going to get the ball out quick. To Jerry, Sulser, Curran, Bingham, Akeem.....

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

Just like we did last year, over and over and over

 

[PlayerRep]

People are putting way too much pressure on the Oline. I get how important it is but we will do things to negate it with Dalton.

Rosie is going to get the ball out quick. To Jerry, Sulser, Curran, Bingham, Akeem.....

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

Just like we did last year, over and over and over

Nope, you must not have been paying attention.

 

[fanofzoo]

People are putting way too much pressure on the Oline. I get how important it is but we will do things to negate it with Dalton.

Rosie is going to get the ball out quick. To Jerry, Sulser, Curran, Bingham, Akeem.....

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

Just like we did last year, over and over and over

Nope, you must not have been paying attention.

What did I miss ?

 

[fanofzoo]

Humphrey said "get it out quick and make them miss".

Just like we did last year, over and over and over

Nope, you must not have been paying attention.

What did I miss ?

Granted this play will be far more successful because we will have a legitimate running threat and the defense won't be able to spread out the box.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

Just like we did last year, over and over and over

Nope, you must not have been paying attention.

What did I miss ?

Granted this play will be far more successful because we will have a legitimate running threat and the defense won't be able to spread out the box.

I feel we are gonna run more slants and inside curls. Bubble screens and wheels with this team. Stitt was more of an outside game. although similar strategy execution and design are different. maybe well see some designed roll outs with some leaks with our TEs (ALWAYS tough in the Redzone)