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LadyGriz Lady Griz Recruiting: 2024+

MissoulaMarinerFan said:
Just horrible optics to not even offer. What in the world are the men’s and women’s teams doing with local recruiting?
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I just don't know. I know that Holsinger made a point of making in roads w/ Missoula coaches knowing that it was going to be a tough road to travel. But agreed on the optics..none of it has been trending in the right way for two to three years now...

I'm not all knowing and seeing, I know that it is a disappointment to some, but I suspect there are several things at play here:

1. Holsinger isn't giving default offers to all talented Montana girls. That was a tradition that ultimately led to the down fall of the program late in Robin's tenure and throughout the Schweyen tenure. I support this move, especially when regionally Montana girls hoops is still pretty dang good, but not as good as it was comparatively even 20 years ago.

2. There are some hard feelings. In some cases a lot of hard feelings. This isn't directed at the McElmurray's or anyone else, but rather coaching circles at lower levels. I don't know how many are left, but the well was poisoned long before Holsinger got the job. Was a really weird vibe for a while in terms of how youth coaches and parents saw the LG program. Not a lot of positivity, and how certain coaches handled these interactions didn't help foster the type of long term relationships between the athletic department, coaches and parents. I know that when Holsinger got the job, there were some really miffed parents and coaches in the community. While I don't know that Holsinger has hurt his cause, but I don't think his recruiting philosophy helps perceptively.

3. Culture change. I think this is really likely THE issue. Missoula isn't a company town anymore where kids feel beholden or their families to take less to attend the UM and play sports there. This was a significant issue all the way back into the 90's, but coaches really didn't have to work all that hard to get players to suit up for the Griz. They do now and it is a good thing to be honest. I think it does suck that Missoula girls will have key roles in at three BSC teams while there won't be a single one here, but it does speak to a longer term issue that I don't think is going to be fixed over night which is if Missoula is going to continue to generate D1 talent (which it will) how can the program and U alter its perception in the community.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
I just don't know. I know that Holsinger made a point of making in roads w/ Missoula coaches knowing that it was going to be a tough road to travel. But agreed on the optics..none of it has been trending in the right way for two to three years now...

I'm not all knowing and seeing, I know that it is a disappointment to some, but I suspect there are several things at play here:

1. Holsinger isn't giving default offers to all talented Montana girls. That was a tradition that ultimately led to the down fall of the program late in Robin's tenure and throughout the Schweyen tenure. I support this move, especially when regionally Montana girls hoops is still pretty dang good, but not as good as it was comparatively even 20 years ago.

2. There are some hard feelings. In some cases a lot of hard feelings. This isn't directed at the McElmurray's or anyone else, but rather coaching circles at lower levels. I don't know how many are left, but the well was poisoned long before Holsinger got the job. Was a really weird vibe for a while in terms of how youth coaches and parents saw the LG program. Not a lot of positivity, and how certain coaches handled these interactions didn't help foster the type of long term relationships between the athletic department, coaches and parents. I know that when Holsinger got the job, there were some really miffed parents and coaches in the community. While I don't know that Holsinger has hurt his cause, but I don't think his recruiting philosophy helps perceptively.

3. Culture change. I think this is really likely THE issue. Missoula isn't a company town anymore where kids feel beholden or their families to take less to attend the UM and play sports there. This was a significant issue all the way back into the 90's, but coaches really didn't have to work all that hard to get players to suit up for the Griz. They do now and it is a good thing to be honest. I think it does suck that Missoula girls will have key roles in at three BSC teams while there won't be a single one here, but it does speak to a longer term issue that I don't think is going to be fixed over night which is if Missoula is going to continue to generate D1 talent (which it will) how can the program and U alter its perception in the community.
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For sure - and who knows how good McElmurry may be or not be. I wasn't suggesting that they automatically offer any local talent....but it is a PROBLEM when it appears that a team in your conference that is better than you is able to target talent in your own backyard.

I also understand that it needs to be a right fit for the student, too, but the men's and women's programs aren't doing themselves any sort of perception favors when things like this happen. They may not like it, but playing the "offer game so it gets posted on twitter/x/snapface/mybook etc" helps your optics way more than nothing being out there.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
For sure - and who knows how good McElmurry may be or not be. I wasn't suggesting that they automatically offer any local talent....but it is a PROBLEM when it appears that a team in your conference that is better than you is able to target talent in your own backyard.

I also understand that it needs to be a right fit for the student, too, but the men's and women's programs aren't doing themselves any sort of perception favors when things like this happen. They may not like it, but playing the "offer game so it gets posted on twitter/x/snapface/mybook etc" helps your optics way more than nothing being out there.
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I know. Perception is reality in this case.

Men have dealt with this issue for years. Travis is notoriously stubborn with this, not because he's wrong but he's actually right. He's been more than willing to offer these kids walk-ons, but there is a perception at least among Missoulians that why not offer these kids actual scholarships rather than the 1 and done player from x. They just won't let it die in that regard and has been a constant issue for twenty years in Missoula.

Plus it doesn't help Travis is and can be stubborn and aloof, but from what I gather that isn't Holsingers M.O. He tried like heck to keep Covill here, but that wasn't going to happen under even the best circumstances. You have to have a willing partner to dance and I think Holsinger is going to have to work a lot harder to win over Missoula than he's had with other regions of the planet. I think the real target to see if they've made any headway is going to be with Mason Quinn. She's absurdly talented and might be the best player in the valley in some time, and in recent years the LG have had zero success in keeping those girls at home.
 
Nice to know we're still recruiting at least one player from the high school ranks and one from the 'Portal.' At this rate, we'll have but eight players on the roster to go with two years from now.

I just luv being bored to death.

P.S.-In the meantime MSU has again another transfer; and another and another, etc., etc., etc.. A 6'0" G from New Mexico Hannah Robbins. That seems to add up to about 18 on their Bobkat roster. Pretty soon we're going to forfeit games due to a lack of interest.
 
Without much knowledge of previous, I’d assume this is one of the better high school girls’ basketball classes in recent history in Montana.

Two Power 5 players (one who is top-50 nationally) plus Cherrick and Erickson headed to MSU.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
I know. Perception is reality in this case.

Men have dealt with this issue for years. Travis is notoriously stubborn with this, not because he's wrong but he's actually right. He's been more than willing to offer these kids walk-ons, but there is a perception at least among Missoulians that why not offer these kids actual scholarships rather than the 1 and done player from x. They just won't let it die in that regard and has been a constant issue for twenty years in Missoula.

Plus it doesn't help Travis is and can be stubborn and aloof, but from what I gather that isn't Holsingers M.O. He tried like heck to keep Covill here, but that wasn't going to happen under even the best circumstances. You have to have a willing partner to dance and I think Holsinger is going to have to work a lot harder to win over Missoula than he's had with other regions of the planet. I think the real target to see if they've made any headway is going to be with Mason Quinn. She's absurdly talented and might be the best player in the valley in some time, and in recent years the LG have had zero success in keeping those girls at home.
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I think to me losing a player to a big time school is awesome for the state. Stanford, Oregon State, Utah (after State), etc. But losing to MSU or another BSC school is where things just cannot happen. THAT is the issue IMO with some of these.
 
AZDoc said:
I think to me losing a player to a big time school is awesome for the state. Stanford, Oregon State, Utah (after State), etc. But losing to MSU or another BSC school is where things just cannot happen. THAT is the issue IMO with some of these.
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I don't disagree. I think foundational wise the staff has to fix the broken relationship between the community and the program. Which is so weird considering for nearly two generations of girls and the community as a whole, LG basketball was the holy grail. I don't think it was anything the staff did, and it was dysfunctional even 10 years ago. I could go on for hours about how off it was when Schweyen took over.

I really thought there was an outside shot that with all that had gone on they had an outside shot at Williams. Her recruitment really took off and any conversation of her staying in-state became a moot one. She is very much deserving of her commitment to Maryland and she should have an incredible career there.

Moore was a bit different situation and I honestly don't know if the staff ever got any traction, and honestly there wasn't likely to be when Wake Forest is an option.

The Couture verbal to MSU had more to do with fit from the UM side, but if I were to understand the scenario completely I don't know there was much of an interest from the family or the player to stay in Missoula or so I was told. You can't force fits that don't exist, but it does look awful when your program has been middling to average until last year and you are losing players to Eastern, first Idaho and now MSU and every other BSC squad.

Winning helps and the upcoming year despite the losses in personnel, is probably Holsinger's big year. I don't think they cut bait if he doesn't get a BSC championship and a NCAA tournament appearance, but there is clearly enough there in talent to be considered one of the early favorites.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
I don't disagree. I think foundational wise the staff has to fix the broken relationship between the community and the program. Which is so weird considering for nearly two generations of girls and the community as a whole, LG basketball was the holy grail. I don't think it was anything the staff did, and it was dysfunctional even 10 years ago. I could go on for hours about how off it was when Schweyen took over.

I really thought there was an outside shot that with all that had gone on they had an outside shot at Williams. Her recruitment really took off and any conversation of her staying in-state became a moot one. She is very much deserving of her commitment to Maryland and she should have an incredible career there.

Moore was a bit different situation and I honestly don't know if the staff ever got any traction, and honestly there wasn't likely to be when Wake Forest is an option.

The Couture verbal to MSU had more to do with fit from the UM side, but if I were to understand the scenario completely I don't know there was much of an interest from the family or the player to stay in Missoula or so I was told. You can't force fits that don't exist, but it does look awful when your program has been middling to average until last year and you are losing players to Eastern, first Idaho and now MSU and every other BSC squad.

Winning helps and the upcoming year despite the losses in personnel, is probably Holsinger's big year. I don't think they cut bait if he doesn't get a BSC championship and a NCAA tournament appearance, but there is clearly enough there in talent to be considered one of the early favorites.
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Agreed, but again...who cares if there is zero traction?. Offering regardless (who cares if they're going to Wake Forest or MSU or in Conference) - it is better for the optics to at least offer - it is a better look for the student to post something on the internet that says "Hey, Montana offered me!".

When that doesn't happen, it makes it appear to possible future recruits and their parents and grandparents - which studies are showing that grandparents are now playing a significant role in helping pay for college - that the Griz programs aren't even bothering to recruit them, let alone offer - which further cements the not great local recruiting relationships the last 10 years or so.

The only way they'll know about college comms is if they happen to play/know/talk to a student who is getting recruited. Though I do understand how you need to be a bit more careful with offers for Basketball than football.
 
AZDoc said:
I think to me losing a player to a big time school is awesome for the state. Stanford, Oregon State, Utah (after State), etc. But losing to MSU or another BSC school is where things just cannot happen. THAT is the issue IMO with some of these.
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Agree with this 1 billion percent.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
Agreed, but again...who cares if there is zero traction?. Offering regardless (who cares if they're going to Wake Forest or MSU or in Conference) - it is better for the optics to at least offer - it is a better look for the student to post something on the internet that says "Hey, Montana offered me!".

When that doesn't happen, it makes it appear to possible future recruits and their parents and grandparents - which studies are showing that grandparents are now playing a significant role in helping pay for college - that the Griz programs aren't even bothering to recruit them, let alone offer - which further cements the not great local recruiting relationships the last 10 years or so.

The only way they'll know about college comms is if they happen to play/know/talk to a student who is getting recruited. Though I do understand how you need to be a bit more careful with offers for Basketball than football.
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Completely on board.

The athletic department and the individual programs have a huge PR problem and until recently I thought they were completely unaware they had one. We've been getting our ass kicked left and right by our competitors across the divide for a decade now when it comes to getting messages out, and we just don't seem to learn.

We have had a policy for 30 years that local media will carry the water in promoting programs than the programs themselves. That might have worked well in an analog era, but it doesn't work in period of time where there is .5 reporters working the UM beat and a department policy that has put a very big wall between their programs and the community in regards to messaging. Frankly it needs to be more dynamic and it just isn't.

Perception is reality. We don't know for sure if McElmurry or Couture were given an offer, but we can just go ahead and assume they weren't. If they weren't, that is one discussion, but if they were and those offers weren't made public that is another problem entirely. A problem that frankly is really fixable if the athletic department found a way to get programs on the same wave length about promotion and visibility.
I'm not normally in the zip code of recruits of who they are targeting for both men and women until I see it on some sort of regional twitter or IG account. So if you want to help out recruiting in your local area, it might seem performative, but someone has to know that you actually do it.

You can make things known without violating rules and you can encourage social media interactions when you spend time to develop tools to help players do that promoting. They do it to some degree, but very much not on a scale that other programs do.

Because the UM does have to sell it self to the community. People have greivances about a whole list of things with the athletic department, some as old as events that happened 30 years ago. Had to listen to my father rant about the beer garden and pricing out the little man in the same conversation he was still ticked off about the seating changes after the remodel. Simply people are allowed to come to conclusions no matter how unfounded or old their greivances are. Just need to do a better job at winning support and it just seems like they do such an incredible job at pulling out the shot gun and aiming at their own feet.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
Completely on board.

The athletic department and the individual programs have a huge PR problem and until recently I thought they were completely unaware they had one. We've been getting our ass kicked left and right by our competitors across the divide for a decade now when it comes to getting messages out, and we just don't seem to learn.

We have had a policy for 30 years that local media will carry the water in promoting programs than the programs themselves. That might have worked well in an analog era, but it doesn't work in period of time where there is .5 reporters working the UM beat and a department policy that has put a very big wall between their programs and the community in regards to messaging. Frankly it needs to be more dynamic and it just isn't.

Perception is reality. We don't know for sure if McElmurry or Couture were given an offer, but we can just go ahead and assume they weren't. If they weren't, that is one discussion, but if they were and those offers weren't made public that is another problem entirely. A problem that frankly is really fixable if the athletic department found a way to get programs on the same wave length about promotion and visibility.
I'm not normally in the zip code of recruits of who they are targeting for both men and women until I see it on some sort of regional twitter or IG account. So if you want to help out recruiting in your local area, it might seem performative, but someone has to know that you actually do it.

You can make things known without violating rules and you can encourage social media interactions when you spend time to develop tools to help players do that promoting. They do it to some degree, but very much not on a scale that other programs do.

Because the UM does have to sell it self to the community. People have greivances about a whole list of things with the athletic department, some as old as events that happened 30 years ago. Had to listen to my father rant about the beer garden and pricing out the little man in the same conversation he was still ticked off about the seating changes after the remodel. Simply people are allowed to come to conclusions no matter how unfounded or old their greivances are. Just need to do a better job at winning support and it just seems like they do such an incredible job at pulling out the shot gun and aiming at their own feet.
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Which is the absolute worst part of this entire situation.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
Heard that rumor a while back, before Macey put her name into the portal. She apparently has her degree or can get it at the end of the term. That rumor emerged again when Macey transferred out. I haven't heard anything one way or the other in the past couple of weeks. There are a few others here that probably have a better sense.

The last thing I heard was they didn't expect any more portal departures after Stump put her name in but like I said that was two or three weeks ago.
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You mention Stump, did she find another team?
 
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