Zone against the cats

[Potomac Griz]

Since the other thread on the Griz/Cat game has been infected by Zags disease, I figured I'd start another thread with a question I had about the two Griz/cat games.

Why, in both games, did we go away from using a zone so quickly on D?

In the first game up in Bozeman the cats were having trouble getting any good looks when we were in zone. Even some cat fans remarked on that on their message board. They really struggled offensively against our zone, yet we played mostly man defense that game, which got them a ton of easy buckets in the paint. They beat us in the paint 36-24 and out rebounded us. We'd occasionally go back to zone, get a couple nice stops, put a little run on to keep things close, and then go back to man defense, and the cats would get easy buckets again killing our run.

In the most recent game, it was pretty much identical to the first game. We acted like we were afraid to play zone against the Cats because they'd light it up from 3....yet the Cats are 2nd to last in conference in 3 point shooting percentage..and really not that dangerous of a team from the outside. If you look at the recent cat losses, you can see that you Want them to have to resort to chucking up threes.

Against San Jose State, they were 8-28 from 3 point range. Against EWU they were 6-23. Against WSU they were 8-21. Against UNC they were 7-23, and against NAU they were 6-23.

Compare that to the recent games against the Cats where they were 4-9 and 4-13. They didn't have to throw up a ton of threes since we seemed to be daring them to drive on us and get it into the paint (which they did).

It seems like that is the type of team you wouldn't be afraid to zone. As we've seen with the cat team this year, you want them to give up getting the ball into the paint. You want their guards to stop penetrating and launching from 3. When they do that, they lose. When we were in man defense, they did a great job of drawing our bigs out to guard their bigs out near the 3 point line, then simply having their guards penetrate and score or dump off a pass to someone for a nice uncontested layup. Bynum freakin killed us this last game. Since our bigs were out of the paint, there wasn't much we could do about it. Zone defense would have at least had a better chance of putting a stop to that.

Several weeks ago in a post game interview, Tinkle mentioned that his assistants wanted to run zone more against the team they were playing that week (I honestly forget which team it was). He mentioned how he wanted to stick with man defense, but finally relented and went with zone and how it really turned out well for the Griz. Is it possible that the assistants are trying to get him to play more zone but he still wants to stay in man defense for some reason when things aren't going well like in the cat games? What is he seeing in our zone defense that makes him want to go away from it so quickly?

Anyway, I'm just curious to hear other posters thoughts on this. I don't mean this as bashing the coaching staff, or anything like that. I noticed a few other posters mentioned this in other threads, so I figured I'd try to see what everyone thought on this.

 

[GrizWhiz]

The Griz zone has been vastly their more effective defense, especially against teams with a lot of quickness (see bobcats). I can not understand why Tinks chose to play so much man against the cats. It sure didn't work. :?

 

[Grizbacker1]

Why don't you self professed "experts" grow some cajones (balls) and call, or stop by the coaches show on Mondays at Paradise Falls and ask Tinkle that question? You guys have all the pfucking answers and I bet neither of you has ever coached or played at a level past little dribblers. If you can't figure out how to dial the call in number PM me with your number and I will get it to Mick Holien. Mick will call you so you can ask the guy who makes the decisions during the game, not on Monday and Tuesday. :roll:

 

[GrizWhiz]

Ease up Backer......I don't think a discussion like this, sans slams against anyone, warrants a bashing. If you disagree with the comments here say why. Since you go to the games (so do I), I'd be especially interested in your thoughts. I sure don't rule out me being wrong and I sure could be missing something. :thumb:

 

[Mousegriz]

Tinkle knows all and has never made a coaching mistake. Listen to one of his interviews. If we stayed man that was the thing to do. How can we ever question the coach? He's always got the right gameplan in place and makes all the appropriate in-game adjustments. It's just those damn kids that we need to get "on point", "on page", "more inspired" and "ready to go". Don't worry, we're the most talented team in the BSC and should be able to contend in the tourney. And then....wait until next year, you should see the recruits we're bringing in, probably one of the best classes EVER!

 

[Potomac Griz]

Why don't you self professed "experts" grow some cajones (balls) and call, or stop by the coaches show on Mondays at Paradise Falls and ask Tinkle that question? You guys have all the pfucking answers and I bet neither of you has ever coached or played at a level past little dribblers. If you can't figure out how to dial the call in number PM me with your number and I will get it to Mick Holien. Mick will call you so you can ask the guy who makes the decisions during the game, not on Monday and Tuesday. :roll:

:roll: Obviously you never give your opinions on a message board either right? And of course only those who have coached at the college level are allowed to have an opinion right? I'm not sure what is with your little holy war lately on anyone that wants discuss Griz hoops, but I've seen you pretty much copy and paste the same response to multiple people. This is a message board where fans can discuss things about the Griz BB programs.. If you disagree with the opinions being posted here, then that's fine. Explain what you disagree with, and what your thoughts are on the matter...but seriously...enough with the crusade against anyone who has an opinion on here.

Tinkle himself has mentioned in the post game interview that he was reluctant to play zone even when his assistant coaches were pushing him to. He basically admitted that he was a little stubborn on the issue (at least in that game) but eventually caved, and it had great results. So, I see no problem with discussing this and what we saw in the games against the cats.

 

[wbtfg]

It seems to me UM came out in a zone and the MSU guards were able to get penetration up the middle between Johnson and Cherry, pretty consistantly and that is what seemed to pull UM out of that Zone. Additionally, the offensive rebounds MSU was getting while UM was in the zone was also a killer.

I do agree with you, however, that the UM zone was VERY effective against MSU in the first game. This time around, the zone defense didn't seem as active, and (like I said) the bigs were getting killed on the offensive boards.

 

[ilovethecats]

i think there are several factors in this game regarding the zone. for one, you guys not being healthy down low played a huge part. normally good zones make teams rely on the three, but in order to do that you gotta be able to stop penetration. at the very least, when the other team IS able to penetrate, normally you can rely on your bigs to alter the shots. you guys weren't able to do that. so while it's true that playing a zone normally makes the other team take poor threes, this was not happening in this game. the cats were driving at will. not to mention the rebound factor. you guys weren't getting to the ball as it was, and that only becomes harder in a zone. there are many factors for a zone besides just making the opponent take tough threes, and i think tinkle made the right decision....in this particular case.

 

[Mslacat]

For years the Griz defencive Zone has caused the Bobcats fits so much so it has been the template of how to defeat the Bobcats. Huse has been trying to recruit more deep threats on offence but has not found the dead eye shooters yet. The other way to defeat the Zone is by attacking the seams of the Zone, and this year that is what Huse is doing. Without a the deep perimeter shooter (with the exception of Danny Piepoli) and the post presence of Mbunga Huse tweaked his offence to take attack the seams using Montana States quickness. From my point of view, I thought MSU neutralized the Griz Zone, and forced them to go man to man. If the Griz had stayed in the Zone I am not sure if the results would have been any better maybe worse.

 

[Potomac Griz]

I definitely agree that not having Qvale down there really hurt our defense. In the 2nd game even our Zone didn't look like it was what it usually is. Qvale changes a lot of shots when he's in there. Our man defense didn't do well at all against the cats in either game though. Too many times our bigs got drawn outside guarding the cat bigs and made things look wide open for the cat guards (especially Bynum).

The rebounding was pretty bad no matter what defense we were in it seemed. The cats just out-quicked and seemed to out hustle the Griz. Both were pretty frustrating games to watch for Griz fans I think. Especially after the Griz had looked so good against other good teams.

One thing is for sure, the Cats seemed to have the Griz figured out this year.... so far

Hopefully we'll get to see a 3rd match up between our two teams in the championship game of the tournament!

 

[Vanilla Fudge]

Why don't you self professed "experts" grow some cajones (balls) and call, or stop by the coaches show on Mondays at Paradise Falls and ask Tinkle that question? You guys have all the pfucking answers and I bet neither of you has ever coached or played at a level past little dribblers. If you can't figure out how to dial the call in number PM me with your number and I will get it to Mick Holien. Mick will call you so you can ask the guy who makes the decisions during the game, not on Monday and Tuesday. :roll:

:roll: Obviously you never give your opinions on a message board either right? And of course only those who have coached at the college level are allowed to have an opinion right? I'm not sure what is with your little holy war lately on anyone that wants discuss Griz hoops, but I've seen you pretty much copy and paste the same response to multiple people. This is a message board where fans can discuss things about the Griz BB programs.. If you disagree with the opinions being posted here, then that's fine. Explain what you disagree with, and what your thoughts are on the matter...but seriously...enough with the crusade against anyone who has an opinion on here.

Tinkle himself has mentioned in the post game interview that he was reluctant to play zone even when his assistant coaches were pushing him to. He basically admitted that he was a little stubborn on the issue (at least in that game) but eventually caved, and it had great results. So, I see no problem with discussing this and what we saw in the games against the cats.

Dexter, don't you know better than to challenge the self-annointed all-knowing one on this board? This tub of lard has no other life except throwing his weight around on this message board (and he's got plenty to throw around). You see, he has no friends, and no life. So have pity on him like the rest of us.