Why I Prefer Griz Basketball

[citygriz]

Tradition: I suppose this breaks down by age. I've been to many a Griz football game, but well before that, I'd watched Griz basketball, up close and with passion, beginning with the glorious era started by Jud Heathcote. Saw Micheal Ray, a one-man gang, destroy a Pacific team in Stockton, while my buddy from Butte, always looking for a fight, baited the entire Pacific student section. Witnessed, either in person or at a sports bar, the many Griz battles at the Big Dance, whether Custer-like humiliations to UNLV, Syracuse and Wisconsin, the near-loss to New Mexico, or actual wins against Utah State and Nevada, not to mention the epic battle against UCLA. While scattered in between: The first time I saw Derrick Pope play at San Jose State; the first time I saw the great Larry K or the magnificent Brian Qvale (both times at Pacific); witnessed the incredible play Will Cherry pulled off at USF, where he stole a ball side-court for a breakaway but was on a collision course with a gazelle-like USF defender soaring in from a different angle in a vain attempt to block Will's thunderous dunk; or more recently, the two Griz victories over Pac12 teams, one at Oregon, another at UCLA (both in person.) You just can't argue with first love, and basketball was always mine. But there's more...

Challenge: Every game I've mentioned was against Division One teams, in some cases the very best college basketball has to offer. There's just nothing to get the blood pumping and the stomach churning like a game against a superior opponent. UCLA, Oregon, Duke, Kansas, Gonzaga, Washington--bring 'em on! Problems? Oh, yeah! But problems spell opportunity. I love the thrill of games like this, and the eagerness of DeCuire to schedule them, and to recruit to their level, the while our football team goes up against opponents I no longer care about--Weber, Northern Colorado, North Dakota, not to mention the non-conference duds. Who cares? We've been whomping these guys for a quarter of a century. They can only get better, while we "maintain." Even a "national championship" has lost its appeal with the defections of so many good schools from the 1-aa level. In basketball, if you win the conference, you at least get to go up against the best of the best. And when you do, even a first-round victory brings your school far more attention and publicity than a second-rate "national title." I once felt intensely the challenge of our football program to win a national title, but for me, the thrill is gone. DeCuire meanwhile is attempting something grand, something beyond the thinking of many Montanans, not only to play against the very best but to compete with the very best, and because of his efforts, I'm loving my first love more than ever.

 

[montanatarheel]

Well said citay, nice post!

 

[Griz Man]

NDSU football proved over the past several years that it's possible to have success against FBS football teams. If the Griz could beat UW in 2017, that would be incredibly exciting! The only way to do this would probably be if Stitt's offense is clicking on all gears. The win over NDSU this year (speaking of the devils) brought tears to my eyes. I was just as excited about that win as the NCAA tourney win over Nevada.

Sure, due to the greater number of personnel in football and the additional weight (no pun intended) given to bigger and faster players, there will always be fewer football wins over FBS opponents. But even in basketball, we haven't beaten a ranked team in quite a while. Now if our basketball team makes it to the sweet-16, then that will be amazing. Until then, I derive a similar level of satisfaction from both programs, and with the win yesterday, I'm hoping the resurgence of Griz football is back on track, parallel to the exciting things going on with Griz hoops!

 

[GrizLA]

Tradition: I suppose this breaks down by age. I've been to many a Griz football game, but well before that, I'd watched Griz basketball, up close and with passion, beginning with the glorious era started by Jud Heathcote. Saw Micheal Ray, a one-man gang, destroy a Pacific team in Stockton, while my buddy from Butte, always looking for a fight, baited the entire Pacific student section. Witnessed, either in person or at a sports bar, the many Griz battles at the Big Dance, whether Custer-like humiliations to UNLV, Syracuse and Wisconsin, the near-loss to New Mexico, or actual wins against Utah State and Nevada, not to mention the epic battle against UCLA. While scattered in between: The first time I saw Derrick Pope play at San Jose State; the first time I saw the great Larry K or the magnificent Brian Qvale (both times at Pacific); witnessed the incredible play Will Cherry pulled off at USF, where he stole a ball side-court for a breakaway but was on a collision course with a gazelle-like USF defender soaring in from a different angle in a vain attempt to block Will's thunderous dunk; or more recently, the two Griz victories over Pac12 teams, one at Oregon, another at UCLA (both in person.) You just can't argue with first love, and basketball was always mine. But there's more...

Challenge: Every game I've mentioned was against Division One teams, in some cases the very best college basketball has to offer. There's just nothing to get the blood pumping and the stomach churning like a game against a superior opponent. UCLA, Oregon, Duke, Kansas, Gonzaga, Washington--bring 'em on! Problems? Oh, yeah! But problems spell opportunity. I love the thrill of games like this, and the eagerness of DeCuire to schedule them, and to recruit to their level, the while our football team goes up against opponents I no longer care about--Weber, Northern Colorado, North Dakota, not to mention the non-conference duds. Who cares? We've been whomping these guys for a quarter of a century. They can only get better, while we "maintain." Even a "national championship" has lost its appeal with the defections of so many good schools from the 1-aa level. In basketball, if you win the conference, you at least get to go up against the best of the best. And when you do, even a first-round victory brings your school far more attention and publicity than a second-rate "national title." I once felt intensely the challenge of our football program to win a national title, but for me, the thrill is gone. DeCuire meanwhile is attempting something grand, something beyond the thinking of many Montanans, not only to play against the very best but to compete with the very best, and because of his efforts, I'm loving my first love more than ever.

Well,Citay, I share much of that with you, but for the first time in a decade, I feel the Griz will actually win a few of those games and/or develop an attitude that they can.It is one thing to simply be in the NCAA tourney but to lose by enormous amounts can do more harm than good. I think this coach has his guys, recruited from some bball hotbeds, no longer intimidated and if this isn't the year, then we are building toward that.

 

[GrizWhiz]

"while our football team goes up against opponents I no longer care about--Weber, Northern Colorado, North Dakota, not to mention the non-conference duds. Who cares? We've been whomping these guys for a quarter of a century"...worse yet, we are no longer consistently whomping even these guys! Griz football has been on a moderate but nevertheless downward spiral for several years. If the (thus far) reluctance of the athletic dept. to commit to cost of attendance stipends continues, IMHO the football program will continue this downward trend (given the recruiting disadvantage that comes with competing with programs that do offer the stipend) and soon with a corresponding drop in attendance. At this point, I value my BB season tickets far more than my inexplicably pricey football season tickets. In terms of opposition, the BB team plays at a level significantly above the FB team. Additionally, they are more successful in terms of wins and losses.

 

[putter]

Nice post. I graduated with Gary Kane and really miss the atmosphere that Montana had back then, it was just as good as the football team has now. The problem is that Montana football, despite being FCS, is relevant on a national stage because it has a chance to win a NC in football. Griz basketball can only hope for a nice draw in the dance to, possibly, get 1 win. While it is exciting is does not put Montana on the map so people are interested but no longer passionate.

College sports is an arms race now. I just got back from Notre Dame and seeing their facilities (basketball as well as football) Montana will always be at a huge disadvantage in trying to find the next Michael Ray to compete.

 

[bigtyme]

Great post Citay. I share your enthusiasm for Griz basketball.

 

[citygriz]

Nice post. I graduated with Gary Kane and really miss the atmosphere that Montana had back then, it was just as good as the football team has now. The problem is that Montana football, despite being FCS, is relevant on a national stage because it has a chance to win a NC in football. Griz basketball can only hope for a nice draw in the dance to, possibly, get 1 win. While it is exciting is does not put Montana on the map so people are interested but no longer passionate.

College sports is an arms race now. I just got back from Notre Dame and seeing their facilities (basketball as well as football) Montana will always be at a huge disadvantage in trying to find the next Michael Ray to compete.[/quote

I agree, college sports is an arms race. For that we can thank not only television, but all the fabulously rich alums such as Phil Knight (Nike) of Oregon, T. Boone Pickens (Oil) at Oklahoma State and John Arrillaga (Silicon Valley real estate) at Stanford. They simply upped the ante for all collegiate athletic programs. Of course we too have benefitted from the largesse of the Washington family, so to me college sports is now a little like politics: You can't play unless you have big money donors behind you.

Still, the disparity between the rich and the poor is much greater in football than it is in basketball. The last two times we challenged big-time college programs (Iowa and Oregon) we got our butts kicked. The disparity in training facilities and the number of scholarships is just too great to overcome. I know we play Washington in 2017, but I just watched Washington against Stanford last Saturday night, and the Huskies are re-loading in spectacular fashion. They have a freshman QB, a true freshman running back, and a terrific sophomore defensive end. In two years Chris Peterson is going to be locked and loaded.

At the same time, we've had a lot of success in basketball recently against Pac12 teams. Remember, in the past decade, we've defeated Stanford both home and away, defeated UCLA and Oregon on their home courts, and last season should have defeated Cal, had our most reliable free-throw shooter, Jordan Gregory, been able to make free throws down the stretch in regulation. At that, we had the last shot to win it in overtime. Meanwhile, at the Big Dance, while we have yet to see a sixteen seed take out a one, we are guaranteed of numerous huge upsets.

In fact, it is for that very reason that the Big Dance is my favorite sporting event. The over-hyped Super Bowl has laid numerous huge eggs over the years, the college football championship has a distinct odor based on the way the choose the teams, and the World Series...well, poor baseball, nuff said. But the Big Dance never fails to produce drama and excitement, and when you very own school is in it, it's extra special.

 

[putter]

Nice post. I graduated with Gary Kane and really miss the atmosphere that Montana had back then, it was just as good as the football team has now. The problem is that Montana football, despite being FCS, is relevant on a national stage because it has a chance to win a NC in football. Griz basketball can only hope for a nice draw in the dance to, possibly, get 1 win. While it is exciting is does not put Montana on the map so people are interested but no longer passionate.

College sports is an arms race now. I just got back from Notre Dame and seeing their facilities (basketball as well as football) Montana will always be at a huge disadvantage in trying to find the next Michael Ray to compete.[/quote

I agree, college sports is an arms race. For that we can thank not only television, but all the fabulously rich alums such as Phil Knight (Nike) of Oregon, T. Boone Pickens (Oil) at Oklahoma State and John Arrillaga (Silicon Valley real estate) at Stanford. They simply upped the ante for all collegiate athletic programs. Of course we too have benefitted from the largesse of the Washington family, so to me college sports is now a little like politics: You can't play unless you have big money donors behind you.

Still, the disparity between the rich and the poor is much greater in football than it is in basketball. The last two times we challenged big-time college programs (Iowa and Oregon) we got our butts kicked. The disparity in training facilities and the number of scholarships is just too great to overcome. I know we play Washington in 2017, but I just watched Washington against Stanford last Saturday night, and the Huskies are re-loading in spectacular fashion. They have a freshman QB, a true freshman running back, and a terrific sophomore defensive end. In two years Chris Peterson is going to be locked and loaded.

At the same time, we've had a lot of success in basketball recently against Pac12 teams. Remember, in the past decade, we've defeated Stanford both home and away, defeated UCLA and Oregon on their home courts, and last season should have defeated Cal, had our most reliable free-throw shooter, Jordan Gregory, been able to make free throws down the stretch in regulation. At that, we had the last shot to win it in overtime. Meanwhile, at the Big Dance, while we have yet to see a sixteen seed take out a one, we are guaranteed of numerous huge upsets.

In fact, it is for that very reason that the Big Dance is my favorite sporting event. The over-hyped Super Bowl has laid numerous huge eggs over the years, the college football championship has a distinct odor based on the way the choose the teams, and the World Series...well, poor baseball, nuff said. But the Big Dance never fails to produce drama and excitement, and when you very own school is in it, it's extra special.

I am with you 100% on that one. Tough to compete in football with 85 scholarships to 63 because the large schools can monopolize the top talent. Basketball, with its - I believe 13 scholarships, and a huge talent pool is much easier to find those players but a Damian Lillard comes along in the Big Sky once every 10 years. Montana, with the upgrading of it's facilities is on the right track to getting these players in the future. Unfortunately the BOR needs to approve better salaries for coaches so Montana can at least keep a Tinkle or DeCuire more than one recruiting class and build continuity.