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When will Montana move up to Division I?

A

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I think it is time for Montana to step it up and become a Division I team. They could join the Sun Belt conference which includes the likes of Idaho, Lousisana-Lafayette, Arkansas State, etc. You guys would do well in a league like that.

Or, Montana could become an independant. That would be rather interesting to see them matched up against plenty of good teams year in and year out instead of teams like Idaho every year in the conference.
 
Not for a long time. Way they are playing they would not do very well. Offense is inconsistent, would have a hard time scoring anything against a higher level team. Defense may keep it close but against higher level competition would have a problem keeping the score lower than what our offense produces. By time they do recruit the players to compete, maybe 3 or 4 years down the road, Griz would have suffered some losing seasons, or at least, less then spectacular seasons. Winning keeps the fans in the seats. Winning Keeps the money rolling in. Reason Griz are reaching attendance records this year is......Yes, you guessed it, Won the national championship last year. Attendance had the same spike after the 1995 National Championship. You drop that level of success, you lose a lot of fans.

Money is getting ever more difficult to get with the stock market losing ground, and with the threat of war that Bush is wanting to do so much, stock market may drop even more causing the stock market to go even lower. What does this have to do with the Griz? More than you think. It is money. More money lost in stock market means less money donated to the Griz program. Less money in the Griz program means fewer scholarships, thus will not be able to compete very well. That means losing and losing loses fans. Fewer fans means less money.

Plus, in 2004, one of the advantages of moving up to 1A will be gone. Currently, a lower level 1A team can schedule a big payday by going on the road to play a BCS team for the big payday of $400,000 or so, and then schedule 1AA teams at home where they do not have to pay that high of guarantees. All they have to do schedule at least 6 1A schools each year to stay in 1A and those games can be on the road. Of course, they do have to play some of the teams in their conference at home so there will be some 1A schools a team will play at home. But, This makes lots of money.

But that is soon to end. In 2004, 1A schools have to schedule, if I remember, 6 1A schools at home. Thus, they will now have to spend the big bucks to bring teams into play. This will put a lot of hurt on quite a few 1A schools and expect some will be forced to move down.

Bruiser, you did mention the Sun conference. Just so happens about 6 or so schools, including Idaho, are some of the teams that will not qualify for 1A as the new restrictions that are to be in place in 2004. That conference could end up being having to move down to 1AA, or disband as there won't be enough schools in the conference. Conference has to have 6 schools to qualify for bowl games. If the 6 schools that do not qualify and can't make the changes to qualify by 2004, they will have to move down to 1AA thus leaving the conference short.

So, with that, do not expect any moves by Griz to 1A for sometime.
 
I am not sure I would like a move to 1-A, look at Marshall, they have won the MAC championship 3 of the last 4 years, great, big deal, its not like they won the SEC, Big 10, Pac 10, etc. They still only go to a crappy bowl game. What do we get? We get 3 home playoff games! Advantage 1-AA. If Montana did move up to 1-A and get put into the Sun Belt conf the big prize at the end of the season is the Humanitarian Bowl in... hold your breath... Boise! The big prize at the end of the 1-AA season, real playoffs and a shot at the national championship in Chattanooga. Advantage 1-AA. Ok, 1-A does get more scholarships to offer to incoming players but the Griz seem to be recruiting pretty well without those extra scholarships. Advantage push. Moving up to 1-A means the Griz don't get the 1-A players to transfer down and play that same year (like Jelani Harrison), playing in 1-A would mean transfers have to sit out a year before they can play, so why transfer? Advantage 1-AA. I think 1-A teams get more money from the NCAA but I am not sure of that but let just say they do so we can have at least one good thing for 1-A. Advantage 1-A

So there you have it in a tale of the tape the 1-AA system is better than the 1-A system. This is just my opinion, please feel free to respond and fill in the things I missed.
 
cadwiz30 said:
.....
Moving up to 1-A means the Griz don't get the 1-A players to transfer down and play that same year (like Jelani Harrison), playing in 1-A would mean transfers have to sit out a year before they can play, so why transfer? Advantage 1-AA. I think 1-A teams get more money from the NCAA but I am not sure of that but let just say they do so we can have at least one good thing for 1-A. Advantage 1-A

So there you have it in a tale of the tape the 1-AA system is better than the 1-A system. This is just my opinion, please feel free to respond and fill in the things I missed.


If Griz move up to 1A, they will be recruiting players like Jelani, so that point is mute. Griz will become better but it will be about a 3 or 4 year process to recruit those better players to play at the 1A level like Boise State and Marshall.

Playing 1A, schools hope for more money from boosters than they would in 1AA, which they generally do if they are in the right market.

But the conferences that are making any money are the big BCS conferences. You can forget about the Griz ever moving to a BCS conference. PAC 10 wouldn't be interested in us. When 2004 restrictions for staying in the 1A are in place, Sun Conference is going to be in big trouble as many schools in that conference do not qualify under the new restrictions. With the new restrictions, it will be very important on which conference you move up to and Sun Conference is not the place to go.
 
I disagree with that statement that we would recruit players like Jelani, he would still go to Washington because they are a BCS team and he has big dreams of playing on a top tier team. But when he realizes that it just isn't working out for him and looks for a team to play for the next season Montana wouldn't be an option because of the one year waiting period.
 
If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times, Montana IS Division 1 now. Division 1-AA, to be exact. There are two division 1's people, so please get it right!!!!
 
Forgive my Ignorance, but I have some points and questions...

Q1 - Aren't their rules/regulations with a school moving up that says we have to be able to guarantee so many seats in a stadium, like 30,000 or something. And don't we have to be able to have night games?
P1 - Having an extra 10,000 people, with new seats/expansion, whatever, would reak holy havoc on this town. I sat on the Van Buren Bridge for 30 freakin minutes trying to get over it. With traffic, took us an hour and a half from home to game. Thank god I had some beer in the car. Point being... Does Missoula/University even have the INFRASTRUCTURE to accomodate the move.

Q2 - Because we move up, does that mean that all school athletics move up? I'm really wondering, just don't know.

P2 - Haven't we been through this enough? I just don't think that winning the national championship twice, and dominating the Big Sky for decade automatically makes us ready to 'move up'. Honestly, the way we're playing now, we'd get creamed!

I agree with someone elses posts... these things come/go in cycles. I guarantee that we won't be on top for another two seasons. We'll actually lose to the Cats in the next 5 years... the law of averages is against the Griz. We'll actually not make the playoffs, and we'll not always win the Big Sky.

Come on people, why move... so we can get our ass handed to us? Lets stay put and continue to play in a Division where there is a true winner, where the playing field is leveled, and the games are REAL, not sponsored by Doritos.

I love the Griz as much as the next guy, but I think moving up would be a big mistake. There is a mystique about this Division and Conference, I'd miss it alot.

Peace Out.
 
Hammer said:
If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times, Montana IS Division 1 now. Division 1-AA, to be exact. There are two division 1's people, so please get it right!!!!


If you read all the posts, you would see they are all refering to 1AA that the Griz are in. Subject maybe misleading but if you actually read the posts, you should get the drift.
 
GoodGodGriz said:
Forgive my Ignorance, but I have some points and questions...

Q1 - Aren't their rules/regulations with a school moving up that says we have to be able to guarantee so many seats in a stadium, like 30,000 or something. And don't we have to be able to have night games?
P1 - Having an extra 10,000 people, with new seats/expansion, whatever, would reak holy havoc on this town. I sat on the Van Buren Bridge for 30 freakin minutes trying to get over it. With traffic, took us an hour and a half from home to game. Thank god I had some beer in the car. Point being... Does Missoula/University even have the INFRASTRUCTURE to accomodate the move.

Q2 - Because we move up, does that mean that all school athletics move up? I'm really wondering, just don't know.

P2 - Haven't we been through this enough? I just don't think that winning the national championship twice, and dominating the Big Sky for decade automatically makes us ready to 'move up'. Honestly, the way we're playing now, we'd get creamed!

I agree with someone elses posts... these things come/go in cycles. I guarantee that we won't be on top for another two seasons. We'll actually lose to the Cats in the next 5 years... the law of averages is against the Griz. We'll actually not make the playoffs, and we'll not always win the Big Sky.

Come on people, why move... so we can get our ass handed to us? Lets stay put and continue to play in a Division where there is a true winner, where the playing field is leveled, and the games are REAL, not sponsored by Doritos.

I love the Griz as much as the next guy, but I think moving up would be a big mistake. There is a mystique about this Division and Conference, I'd miss it alot.

Peace Out.

GoodGodGriz: (answer to both your questions)

1. Except for increasing number of athletic programs and scholarships, Griz would already meet the requirements if they moved up to 1A so do not need to expand football stadium, but to afford the extra cost of moving up they would most likely need to expand the stadium. Currently until 2004, to qualify for 1A, you either need a 30,000 capacity stadium, OR, average 17,000 or greater in attendance for 4 years in a row. You know why Idaho played in Pullman? It was to play in a stadium large enough so they can reach that 17,000 average for 4 years in a row. In 2004, things are going to be different, must average over 15,000 in attendance and support the minimum number of scholarships of I think 85, and 16 athletic programs. Plus, there are restrictions set on the conference which Sun Conference, if things do not get corrected by 2004 with some of its teams may end up not being a conference. As for UM, Griz are short on the scholarships and programs, so you can imagine the cost of moving up. Actually, the number of athletic programs and scholarships are required now and not just starting in 2004.


2. The only athletic program that needs to move up is football. Thereis no 1AA in other programs as they are all division 1 with no letter.

Missoula is not a large market. If they can keep winning and increase it's donor base, Griz would be able to move up to 1A. Start losing and fans will lose interest. I won't but there are a lot of people who are watching the Griz because of its winning the championship last year and in 1995. Hate to see that get lost because of losing some games and then lose some financial support during times of falling budgetary problems in the education system.

Folks, Griz are doing great now and enjoying quite a bit of support, but it isn't garanteed to last forever and is more fragile than you think. If Griz do move up to 1A, they have to do it the right way and the right time. I do not think it is the right time as the way it is now, there are 2 division 1s, 1A and 1AA. But in reality there are 3 divisions, 2 in 1A and 1AA. The 2 divisions in 1A are the big boys, basically the BCS conferences that actually have a chance to play for something that means something. Then there is the other division that gets a chance to play in a meaningless bowl game. The Boise States, Nevadas, and Idahos belong in this division. The Sun Conference and WAC that Boise State is in is basically toilet 1A division. If you want to make money in division 1A, you need to be in the PAC 10 if you are in the west, Period.
 
TrueGriz is right on the mark.
Also, if the number of Football scholarhips increase, the # of girls
scholarships must increase. At this point I don't think we can afford it.
 
Bruiser...Idaho did move up and we would play them every year because they are in the Sun Belt Conference. We aren't exactly in the sun belt here in Missoula nice travel plans...Are you an Idaho Vandal or a Aggie from Utah State...two awesome division I-A program that have to play I-AA to get wins and money for home games.

I love the playoff system and the humintarian bowl in Tropical Boise is not my idea of a bolw game...

Idaho only moved up because Boise state did...then they play on WSU's field? I guess we play them in the Kibbee dome this year...just like old times...

If the Griz move to up...I'll sell you my season tickets...cheap!!! Hear me Wayne H.

I guess the moto won't be to usefull anymore "We play for Championships" any ideas on new motos?

We play to go to Boise?
We play for a couple more scholarships and less attendance at our games?
We play to not be the worst team in IA.
 
:eek: Crap! I agree. Moving up into the IA division would be a colasal mistake. First off, most teams that moved up are teatering, plus, the IA is less interesting... honestly. At least to me. I like a playoff system, and for now, think it's better to get respect on the IAA level than disrespect on the IA level.

Kiss my ass to any A director trying to move them up.
 
:oops:

UM would soon find itself in Idaho's shoes, (a tougher schedual, much tougher recruiting, and a potential loss of it fan base/fan dollars, etc.) with a move up. However UM will eventually have to make a move when the NCAA changes it structure regarding the power schools, the mid majors, and the rest of independent 1A schools.

1A would require another extension to stadium to accomodate the minimums of attendance and the infrastructure to support the additional traffic, people and vehicles. Montana is in a great place and until our hand is forced (it will be in three years or so..) we should consider our options carefully.
 
ekim8998 said:
:oops:



1A would require another extension to stadium to accomodate the minimums of attendance and the infrastructure to support the additional traffic, people and vehicles. Montana is in a great place and until our hand is forced (it will be in three years or so..) we should consider our options carefully.

Montana already meets the minimum attendance requirements of 1A. read my last post, it states the requirements as it is now and will be in 2004.
 
Just passing through and saw the discussion on a move up to 1A. Thought I would set the record straight for anyone that cares.

The Sun Belt plays for only 1 bowl game. That is the New Orleans Bowl. The WAC, on the other hand, has 3 gauranteed bowls. Depending on the situation, a 4th is possible. The 3 gauranteed bowls are Humanitarian Bowl, Silicon Valley Clasic Bowl, and a newly created bowl in Hawaii. The 4th involves some sort of swap for the GMAC bowl for eastern WAC teams, or something.

As far as the WAC being toilet 1A, not entirely true, unless you want to throw the Mountain West into that category, as well. The WAC has a very healthy record the last 2 years against the Mtn West.

Good luck this week against idaho. Anyone who play the vandals are my favorite team!


lg_forsey_run.jpg[img]
 
GoBigBlu said:
As far as the WAC being toilet 1A, not entirely true, unless you want to throw the Mountain West into that category, as well. The WAC has a very healthy record the last 2 years against the Mtn West.



The Mtn. West? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I think a urinal would be big enough to house both those conferences!!!
 
I understand if you guys don't want to go D-1A, because you'll have no chance of winning the NC. Fine. However, 100+ other D-1A schools have no chance of winning the NC.

Why then, if there is no interest in the "toilet bowls", do they keep adding bowl games every year. Shouldn't those other 100+ schools drop down to 1-AA? No one ever has and none will go willing.

The only question I have then is why are playing D-1 basketball? There is no reason to play at that level if you cannot win the NC is there? The Griz will never win the NC, let alone a single game in the NCAA tourney.

If UM stays or goes doesn't affect me or UI, so it doesn't matter to me what you guys do. By the same token, why do guys care what UI does. When the 5 1-A home game rule goes into effect, this series is most likely dead anyway.[/i]
 
JoeOmaha said:
If UM stays or goes doesn't affect me or UI, so it doesn't matter to me what you guys do. By the same token, why do guys care what UI does. When the 5 1-A home game rule goes into effect, this series is most likely dead anyway.[/i]

Don't count the series out yet, Only a couple teams in Sun Belt would qualify for 1A under new rules. You will have to move to another conference. In fact, according to a report this year, even Idaho is in danger of not qualifying.
 
I know its fun watching the likes of Sac State and Hofstra oh maybe throw in N. Dakota now in then. Even in the WAC we can watch Fresno State, Hawaii , LaTech. Even San Jose State this year is more exciting then UC-Riverside. I know its all about the hardware, but with all the teams moving up the last few years, your competition isnt as tough. For me I'd rather see stronger competition then watching a cakewalk team week after week. As a track runner I would rather finish lower with good competition then taking first with lesser comp, there no challenge.
 
but ended up 4th in the WAC, Montana is not in a position to dis the WAC. If Montana were in the WAC this year, it would find itself behind Hawaii, Boise State, Nevada, La Tech, Fresno, SJSU and maybe even Rice...
 
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