• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts access private forums and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!

What the Homecourt is Worth

bengal

Well-known member
As a neutral observer, I watched the UNC-UM game last night and I've read all the ranting about the officiating today. (If it's any consolation, ISU fans felt the same way about the officials after UNC went to the line 33 times against us, and Beitzel was 14 for 14). I made a couple of preliminary observations, and then decided to do some math. The observations:

--Beitzel is tremendous at getting to the foul line. You can complain about the officiating all you want, but his style of play, the leverage he uses and the way he constantly attacks gets him calls. Whether you agree with the calls or not, this is clearly a kid who knows his strengths and plays to them, and the refs reward him for that.

--Home teams have a "built in" advantage when it comes to getting to the free throw line, and far more scientific studies than mine have illustrated that over the years. However, UNC's home court advantage (where they were unbeaten this year) "seems" to be excessive. Is that because of Beitzel and the overall agressive style of the Bears? Is it because home teams generally get ahead and the trailing teams have to foul a lot at the end of the game? Or is simply because the officials are overly influenced by home crowds? I don't know, but I would venture a guess and say it's all three.

So now the math. I compared UNC and UM's free throws attempts, at home and on the road, in Big Sky games. I used them because they played last night, and because they are teams with similar records, thus eliminating some of the "they get ahead and other teams have to foul" piece of FTAs. I left out UM's game against Weber because it was on a neutral court. Here's what I found:

--UNC averaged a bit over 24 FTAs a game at home, compared to their opponents' 16. On the road, UNC averaged a bit over 22 FTAs compared to their opponents' 24.

--Montana averaged a bit over 24 FTAs at home compared to their opponents' 17.5. On the road, it was almost dead even -- Montana averaged 16.3 FTAs on the road, their opponents 16.5

So what does this tell us? Well, it implies that UNC's home court advantage as far as getting to the line is very similar to Montana's. UNC gets about 8 more FTAs than opponents at home, Montana about 6.5. It also shows us that UNC gets to the line wherever they play -- they are averaging 22 FTAs even on the road, which is just slightly less than they average at home. Clearly the Bears' style of play -- and Beitzel in particular, is geared toward getting to the line.

Finally, as we learned from watching the St. John's-Rutgers game yesterday, even the best officials screw up. And not just on that last non-call, but on some previous "no-calls" in that game as well. Complaints about officiating go on at every level, from the NBA (remember the revelations from the former NBA official who got caught in a gambling ring that he sometimes "favored" certain players, teams and coaches?) down to the local high school level. Every fan thinks "their" officials are the worst.

Are there technical issues with officiating in the Big Sky? Absolutely. But remember, a lot of Big Sky officials, including some of the guys who worked last night, also work WAC, Mountain West and PAC 10 games. The issues are not confined to this league.

In my view, the real problem has been that leagues in general, and officials in particular, are resistant to talking to the media and the public about how they do their jobs, why they make the calls they make, and, yes, admitting that they screwed up on occasion. Remember how quickly the uproar over the blown call in the Tigers' perfect game went away last year when the umpire just manned up and said, "I blew it?" Complaints about officiating will never go away completely, but in this day and age of message boards, you-tube, instant replay and even more instant "evaluation" of the job officials do, it almost behooves administrators and officials to become more "human," rather than just showing us their backs as they stalk out of the arena after blowing a big call, which is what we saw repeatedly on the replays of the St. John's-Rutgers game yesterday. Tell us your biggest issues in recruiting and training good officials, talk to us about the calls that are most likely to be blown and how you are training your officials to get better, and, most importantly, put a human face on the guys who are in the trenches.

I honestly don't think any of us on this board would trade places with officials. They have impossible jobs to do, and no matter what they call or don't call, they will piss somebody off. When they screw up, they get national excoriation. When they simply do their jobs, nobody notices or cares. Sure, they are well compensated, but money ain't everything. Let us get to know these guys (and women) better, let us hear from them when they do screw up, and let us know they are human beings just trying to do a job, like the rest of us. Oh, and let us know when you as a league have gotten rid of the ones that just aren't measuring up, and what you are doing to better train your officials.
 
bengal said:
--UNC averaged a bit over 24 FTAs a game at home, compared to their opponents' 16. On the road, UNC averaged a bit over 22 FTAs compared to their opponents' 24.

So over 2 games they would avg 48 FTAs an opponents 32? I think the last 2 games UNC had 70 FTAs! EIGHTY! Compared to opponents 36. So their yearly home average of already having +8 per game was destoyed by avg over 2 games +17. THAT is what all the complaining is about. This and that they WERE NOT legitimate fouls. I would feel better if it was a rough and tumble game, but it wasn't. These refs need to back to training and learn what a foul really is!

The refs can have a HUGE affect on a came and essentially take a team out of it and that is what they did last night to the GRIZ and tuesday night to NAU.
 
While I agree with much of what you stated, Bengal, the fact is that the figures you stated for regular season games were badly skewed in favor of the Bears last night. At one point late in the game, the Griz had 3 players in the game with 4 fouls, and the other 2 had three fouls. In contrast, NCU had only two players on the floor with three fouls, and nobody else with more than 2. You call this fair officiating? I thought the officials did a good job in the first half. However, if you look at the great disparity in fouls called in the second half, it was obvious that the Griz were getting whistled every time they breathed on a NCU player, while not getting the same calls on the other end.

Finally, perhaps the biggest call of the call, which the officials OBVIOUSLY BLEW, was the blocking foul called on us at the 13-second mark, with us only down by 2. If the correct call was made (a charge), we get the ball, with a chance to tie or win. Instead, they shoot two free throws. It was a total choked-call by the official, who was standing five feet away. Tinks was so mad, I thought he would explode!
 
Growler1 said:
While I agree with much of what you stated, Bengal, the fact is that the figures you stated for regular season games were badly skewed in favor of the Bears last night. At one point late in the game, the Griz had 3 players in the game with 4 fouls, and the other 2 had three fouls. In contrast, NCU had only two players on the floor with three fouls, and nobody else with more than 2. You call this fair officiating? I thought the officials did a good job in the first half. However, if you look at the great disparity in fouls called in the second half, it was obvious that the Griz were getting whistled every time they breathed on a NCU player, while not getting the same calls on the other end.

Finally, perhaps the biggest call of the call, which the officials OBVIOUSLY BLEW, was the blocking foul called on us at the 13-second mark, with us only down by 2. If the correct call was made (a charge), we get the ball, with a chance to tie or win. Instead, they shoot two free throws. It was a total choked-call by the official, who was standing five feet away. Tinks was so mad, I thought he would explode!

It is true, officiating is always magnified by the moment. I saw the replay of the blocking call on your guy vs. Beitzel and, truly, I could see it being called either way. A guy like Beitzel is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. Ever watch a Lakers game in the fourth quarter? Kobe Bryant ALWAYS gets the benefit of the call in the fourth quarter.

I'm not defending the officiating last night, I'm trying to put it into perspective. These are human beings trying to do an impossible job. Complaining about officiating is a lot like complaining about the weather -- with one exception -- the people who CAN do something about it (league administrators and the officials themselves) don't tell us what they are doing to try to improve their performance. Would that make last night's loss easier to take? Of course not, but it might make fans just a tiny bit less frustrated if they 1) heard from the league and the officials when they admit they screwed up (like the Big East did immediately after the game yesterday) and 2) gave us some insight into what they were seeing and interpreting.
 
I agree, Beitzel is a helluva player. BUT, I think he will get his comeupance in the NCAAs. Refs there won't even have heard of him and could care less if he is BSC MVP or not. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens in NoCo's game against a #1 or #2 seed.
 
'68griz said:
I agree, Beitzel is a helluva player. BUT, I think he will get his comeupance in the NCAAs. Refs there won't even have heard of him and could care less if he is BSC MVP or not. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens in NoCo's game against a #1 or #2 seed.


I'm guess Beitzel will be about as effective as Anthony Johnson was last year against the Lobos (6pts?) after his 40+ performance in the BSC chipper.
 
bengal said:
Growler1 said:
While I agree with much of what you stated, Bengal, the fact is that the figures you stated for regular season games were badly skewed in favor of the Bears last night. At one point late in the game, the Griz had 3 players in the game with 4 fouls, and the other 2 had three fouls. In contrast, NCU had only two players on the floor with three fouls, and nobody else with more than 2. You call this fair officiating? I thought the officials did a good job in the first half. However, if you look at the great disparity in fouls called in the second half, it was obvious that the Griz were getting whistled every time they breathed on a NCU player, while not getting the same calls on the other end.

Finally, perhaps the biggest call of the call, which the officials OBVIOUSLY BLEW, was the blocking foul called on us at the 13-second mark, with us only down by 2. If the correct call was made (a charge), we get the ball, with a chance to tie or win. Instead, they shoot two free throws. It was a total choked-call by the official, who was standing five feet away. Tinks was so mad, I thought he would explode!

It is true, officiating is always magnified by the moment. I saw the replay of the blocking call on your guy vs. Beitzel and, truly, I could see it being called either way. A guy like Beitzel is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. Ever watch a Lakers game in the fourth quarter? Kobe Bryant ALWAYS gets the benefit of the call in the fourth quarter.

I'm not defending the officiating last night, I'm trying to put it into perspective. These are human beings trying to do an impossible job. Complaining about officiating is a lot like complaining about the weather -- with one exception -- the people who CAN do something about it (league administrators and the officials themselves) don't tell us what they are doing to try to improve their performance. Would that make last night's loss easier to take? Of course not, but it might make fans just a tiny bit less frustrated if they 1) heard from the league and the officials when they admit they screwed up (like the Big East did immediately after the game yesterday) and 2) gave us some insight into what they were seeing and interpreting.
The blocking/charging definition in the rule book is not all that complicated. I used TIVO to watch the replay multiple times, stopping the action to determine if the defender actually had his feet down, in a squared-up defensive position when contact was made. He did. Of course, the official did not have the luxury of watching the play over, as I did. But I stand by my contention that 8-9 out of 10 officials would have called that a charge, instead of a block. It is pure B.S. that great players get preferential calls in college...perhaps in the NBA, but not college.
 
Growler1 said:
bengal said:
Growler1 said:
While I agree with much of what you stated, Bengal, the fact is that the figures you stated for regular season games were badly skewed in favor of the Bears last night. At one point late in the game, the Griz had 3 players in the game with 4 fouls, and the other 2 had three fouls. In contrast, NCU had only two players on the floor with three fouls, and nobody else with more than 2. You call this fair officiating? I thought the officials did a good job in the first half. However, if you look at the great disparity in fouls called in the second half, it was obvious that the Griz were getting whistled every time they breathed on a NCU player, while not getting the same calls on the other end.

Finally, perhaps the biggest call of the call, which the officials OBVIOUSLY BLEW, was the blocking foul called on us at the 13-second mark, with us only down by 2. If the correct call was made (a charge), we get the ball, with a chance to tie or win. Instead, they shoot two free throws. It was a total choked-call by the official, who was standing five feet away. Tinks was so mad, I thought he would explode!

It is true, officiating is always magnified by the moment. I saw the replay of the blocking call on your guy vs. Beitzel and, truly, I could see it being called either way. A guy like Beitzel is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. Ever watch a Lakers game in the fourth quarter? Kobe Bryant ALWAYS gets the benefit of the call in the fourth quarter.

I'm not defending the officiating last night, I'm trying to put it into perspective. These are human beings trying to do an impossible job. Complaining about officiating is a lot like complaining about the weather -- with one exception -- the people who CAN do something about it (league administrators and the officials themselves) don't tell us what they are doing to try to improve their performance. Would that make last night's loss easier to take? Of course not, but it might make fans just a tiny bit less frustrated if they 1) heard from the league and the officials when they admit they screwed up (like the Big East did immediately after the game yesterday) and 2) gave us some insight into what they were seeing and interpreting.
The blocking/charging definition in the rule book is not all that complicated. I used TIVO to watch the replay multiple times, stopping the action to determine if the defender actually had his feet down, in a squared-up defensive position when contact was made. He did. Of course, the official did not have the luxury of watching the play over, as I did. But I stand by my contention that 8-9 out of 10 officials would have called that a charge, instead of a block. It is pure B.S. that great players get preferential calls in college...perhaps in the NBA, but not college.

I'd have to disagree with you on the last line -- I think good players get the benefit of the doubt at every level of basketball. I've often seen players who are aggressive and energetic, like Beitzel, get the advantage over the course of a game, in high school, college and the pros. In any event, you may be correct that most officials would have called it a charge instead of a block, but you didn't have "any official" working the game -- you had three guys who have watched and worked Beitzel all season long and one of them saw the play differently.
 
bengal said:
Growler1 said:
bengal said:
Growler1 said:
While I agree with much of what you stated, Bengal, the fact is that the figures you stated for regular season games were badly skewed in favor of the Bears last night. At one point late in the game, the Griz had 3 players in the game with 4 fouls, and the other 2 had three fouls. In contrast, NCU had only two players on the floor with three fouls, and nobody else with more than 2. You call this fair officiating? I thought the officials did a good job in the first half. However, if you look at the great disparity in fouls called in the second half, it was obvious that the Griz were getting whistled every time they breathed on a NCU player, while not getting the same calls on the other end.

Finally, perhaps the biggest call of the call, which the officials OBVIOUSLY BLEW, was the blocking foul called on us at the 13-second mark, with us only down by 2. If the correct call was made (a charge), we get the ball, with a chance to tie or win. Instead, they shoot two free throws. It was a total choked-call by the official, who was standing five feet away. Tinks was so mad, I thought he would explode!

It is true, officiating is always magnified by the moment. I saw the replay of the blocking call on your guy vs. Beitzel and, truly, I could see it being called either way. A guy like Beitzel is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. Ever watch a Lakers game in the fourth quarter? Kobe Bryant ALWAYS gets the benefit of the call in the fourth quarter.

I'm not defending the officiating last night, I'm trying to put it into perspective. These are human beings trying to do an impossible job. Complaining about officiating is a lot like complaining about the weather -- with one exception -- the people who CAN do something about it (league administrators and the officials themselves) don't tell us what they are doing to try to improve their performance. Would that make last night's loss easier to take? Of course not, but it might make fans just a tiny bit less frustrated if they 1) heard from the league and the officials when they admit they screwed up (like the Big East did immediately after the game yesterday) and 2) gave us some insight into what they were seeing and interpreting.
The blocking/charging definition in the rule book is not all that complicated. I used TIVO to watch the replay multiple times, stopping the action to determine if the defender actually had his feet down, in a squared-up defensive position when contact was made. He did. Of course, the official did not have the luxury of watching the play over, as I did. But I stand by my contention that 8-9 out of 10 officials would have called that a charge, instead of a block. It is pure B.S. that great players get preferential calls in college...perhaps in the NBA, but not college.

I'd have to disagree with you on the last line -- I think good players get the benefit of the doubt at every level of basketball. I've often seen players who are aggressive and energetic, like Beitzel, get the advantage over the course of a game, in high school, college and the pros. In any event, you may be correct that most officials would have called it a charge instead of a block, but you didn't have "any official" working the game -- you had three guys who have watched and worked Beitzel all season long and one of them saw the play differently.
Well, I can tell you that I, as well as the officials I worked with, never gave premier players a break during calls. When you are officiating a college game, you don't have time to think "that is their star player, should I give him a break on that infraction because he is their star"! The game is much too fast tyo be trying to distinguish players during action. I'm saying it does not happen much, and certainly from any official I have known.

My old buddy Irv Browne, whose clinics I attended several times, used to actually watch the big-shot players more closely during games, according to him, so they did not receive preferential treatment.
 
I'm not thinking along the lines of, "Oh that's Devin Beitzel, I need to give him the call." Rather, I was thinking more along the lines that officials watch a certain kid play over the course of a game and they get acclimated to his style. You have to admit, Beitzel gets to the line more than just about anybody in the Big Sky Conference. That doesn't mean he's always a step ahead of the block, or that he never puts his shoulder down and runs into a defender. Yet he generally, not always, but generally, gets the call in his favor.

PS--I see the officials who worked the St. John's game last night have voluntarily withdrawn from the rest of the Big East Tournament. That shows accountability on their part. They are good enough officials (especially Higgins and Burr) to admit they made a mistake and to take responsibility for it. Leagues and individual officials need to do more of that kind of acknowledgement when they screw up. It's similar to what the umpire did in the Tigers' perfect game fiasco last year. The American public is really very forgiving -- if you give them a chance to forgive you by acknowledging your mistakes.

PSS--More officiating accountability, this from the PAC 10 in football:
"Larry Scott's extreme makeover continued even during the offseason, when the conference addressed football officiating deficiencies; 11 were let go, one retired and 16 were hired..." From SI.com
 
Bengal shows he's a good poster. He mentioned that Devon is a SMART player. He knows how to get to the foul line! He knows when his shots don't fall, that's what to do. Keep up the complaining, it just shows how classless some of you are.
 
BigSkyBears said:
Bengal shows he's a good poster. He mentioned that Devon is a SMART player. He knows how to get to the foul line! He knows when his shots don't fall, that's what to do. Keep up the complaining, it just shows how classless some of you are.

Go away. Enjoy your 10 minutes of fame, no matter how fleeting. What does him being a smart player have to do with a bad call?
 
Growler1 said:
BigSkyBears said:
Bengal shows he's a good poster. He mentioned that Devon is a SMART player. He knows how to get to the foul line! He knows when his shots don't fall, that's what to do. Keep up the complaining, it just shows how classless some of you are.

Go away. Enjoy your 10 minutes of fame, no matter how fleeting. What does him being a smart player have to do with a bad call?

Because he KNOWS he will get the call. Keep talking shit and making excuses, it just makes you look like a bigger loser.
 
bengal said:
I'm not thinking along the lines of, "Oh that's Devin Beitzel, I need to give him the call." Rather, I was thinking more along the lines that officials watch a certain kid play over the course of a game and they get acclimated to his style. You have to admit, Beitzel gets to the line more than just about anybody in the Big Sky Conference. That doesn't mean he's always a step ahead of the block, or that he never puts his shoulder down and runs into a defender. Yet he generally, not always, but generally, gets the call in his favor.

PS--I see the officials who worked the St. John's game last night have voluntarily withdrawn from the rest of the Big East Tournament. That shows accountability on their part. They are good enough officials (especially Higgins and Burr) to admit they made a mistake and to take responsibility for it. Leagues and individual officials need to do more of that kind of acknowledgement when they screw up. It's similar to what the umpire did in the Tigers' perfect game fiasco last year. The American public is really very forgiving -- if you give them a chance to forgive you by acknowledging your mistakes.

PSS--More officiating accountability, this from the PAC 10 in football:
"Larry Scott's extreme makeover continued even during the offseason, when the conference addressed football officiating deficiencies; 11 were let go, one retired and 16 were hired..." From SI.com


You are stretching to try to make a point. Devon gets to the line because he is adept at drawing contact, much like Steve Nash is. It has NOTHING to do with officials giving him calls because they are "acclimated to his style".
 
BigSkyBears said:
Growler1 said:
BigSkyBears said:
Bengal shows he's a good poster. He mentioned that Devon is a SMART player. He knows how to get to the foul line! He knows when his shots don't fall, that's what to do. Keep up the complaining, it just shows how classless some of you are.

Go away. Enjoy your 10 minutes of fame, no matter how fleeting. What does him being a smart player have to do with a bad call?

Because he KNOWS he will get the call. Keep talking shit and making excuses, it just makes you look like a bigger loser.

Everyone, EVERYONE who saw that game last night knows what happened.
 
BigSkyBears said:
Growler1 said:
BigSkyBears said:
Bengal shows he's a good poster. He mentioned that Devon is a SMART player. He knows how to get to the foul line! He knows when his shots don't fall, that's what to do. Keep up the complaining, it just shows how classless some of you are.

Go away. Enjoy your 10 minutes of fame, no matter how fleeting. What does him being a smart player have to do with a bad call?

Because he KNOWS he will get the call. Keep talking shit and making excuses, it just makes you look like a bigger loser.

Being a Bears fan, you would know a whole lot about losing. ;) Now, go away. You're like Charlie Sheen on meth.
 
Growler1 said:
BigSkyBears said:
Growler1 said:
BigSkyBears said:
Bengal shows he's a good poster. He mentioned that Devon is a SMART player. He knows how to get to the foul line! He knows when his shots don't fall, that's what to do. Keep up the complaining, it just shows how classless some of you are.

Go away. Enjoy your 10 minutes of fame, no matter how fleeting. What does him being a smart player have to do with a bad call?

Because he KNOWS he will get the call. Keep talking shit and making excuses, it just makes you look like a bigger loser.

Being a Bears fan, you would know a whole lot about losing. ;) Now, go away. You're like Charlie Sheen on meth.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top