This is what China did

[grizindabox]

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

I don't think this is true, as all will agree the root cause. But at this point in time, actually doing something is more important than the rhetoric. We all know that China did everything to bury it, but even with warnings of trouble for months, some officials took the word of the Chinese instead of being proactive. I have heard numerous stories of Asian-Americans being harassed because of the rhetoric from the top, which accomplishes nothing.

 

[Spanky2]

I haven’t considered that, but don’t you think the return of manufacturing from China can be so profitable for the companies with incentives from the US Government, most objections can be overcome?

 

[Htowngriz]

In all due respect, I’m not going to engage in a long debate regarding why you apparently are of the opinion that it can’t or shouldn’t be accomplished. My background is business and I see no reason why it can’t be done, especially when I believe our current president will endorse such action.

Thank you for the respect due. But it was a serious question, I have no idea or opinion on how it could or should be done that’s why I asked what could be done to reverse the trends to bring manufacturing back to this country. Any action we take against China will result in an at least an a proportionate reaction by them against us in an endless round of trade wars.imo I’m not businessman that’s why I was asking. Thanks

Dutch, as a young boy, I lived in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh. There were large manufacturing plants all over the area of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Now those same facilities are falling down or have disappeared. Much of that manufacturing moved to China with little discouragement from our government. I believe most Americans will support a campaign to return the manufacturing, especially, after the current disaster of the virus.

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested in roasting Sleepy Joe on Twitter than doing his job. Amazing the lengths the party of personal responsibility will go to dismiss this failure in leadership.

 

[PlayerRep]

Thank you for the respect due. But it was a serious question, I have no idea or opinion on how it could or should be done that’s why I asked what could be done to reverse the trends to bring manufacturing back to this country. Any action we take against China will result in an at least an a proportionate reaction by them against us in an endless round of trade wars.imo I’m not businessman that’s why I was asking. Thanks

Dutch, as a young boy, I lived in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh. There were large manufacturing plants all over the area of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Now those same facilities are falling down or have disappeared. Much of that manufacturing moved to China with little discouragement from our government. I believe most Americans will support a campaign to return the manufacturing, especially, after the current disaster of the virus.

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested in roasting Sleepy Joe on Twitter than doing his job. Amazing the lengths the party of personal responsibility will go to dismiss this failure in leadership.

How do you know what Trump was told by the intelligence community?

What was Trump supposed to do?

 

[AZGrizFan]

Thank you for the respect due. But it was a serious question, I have no idea or opinion on how it could or should be done that’s why I asked what could be done to reverse the trends to bring manufacturing back to this country. Any action we take against China will result in an at least an a proportionate reaction by them against us in an endless round of trade wars.imo I’m not businessman that’s why I was asking. Thanks

Dutch, as a young boy, I lived in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh. There were large manufacturing plants all over the area of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Now those same facilities are falling down or have disappeared. Much of that manufacturing moved to China with little discouragement from our government. I believe most Americans will support a campaign to return the manufacturing, especially, after the current disaster of the virus.

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested in roasting Sleepy Joe on Twitter than doing his job. Amazing the lengths the party of personal responsibility will go to dismiss this failure in leadership.

China has lied about this from the beginning. Amazing the lengths people will go to make Orange Man bad.

 

[PDXGrizzly]

When the time is appropriate, I hope there is a will to move much of the products currently manufactured in China back to the United States. Especially, pharmaceuticals.

How do you think that could be accomplished? Through regulation, government fiat? how do you undue a capitalist world economy that has evolved for the last 50 years to where it is today? Would the industrial and financial entities allow for it? What’s your take on how it would be done because Europe and the rest of the world will continue to engage in commerce with Chiner. Thanks

In all reality, it will be the market that decides. Not the individual consumer (they will have a say too) but the manufacturers and distributors. These folks are getting a painful lesson on supply chain vulnerability. There will be a much greater emphasis on supply availability in the future. I think companies will see that the cheapest is not the best and will start to exert more control over their supply chains by moving them closer to home.

The funny part of this is, the anti globalization folks on both sides of the spectrum will be happy as the economies of the world become less interdependent. This has the potential to unleash a whole new round of economic haves and have-nots across the globe; countries that can produce goods at home vs countries that can’t. As countries become less intertwined, they can become more tribal. Conflict can erupt when there isn’t that strong economic connection.

All because some asshole ate a tainted bat...

 

[argh!]

Dutch, as a young boy, I lived in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh. There were large manufacturing plants all over the area of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Now those same facilities are falling down or have disappeared. Much of that manufacturing moved to China with little discouragement from our government. I believe most Americans will support a campaign to return the manufacturing, especially, after the current disaster of the virus.

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested in roasting Sleepy Joe on Twitter than doing his job. Amazing the lengths the party of personal responsibility will go to dismiss this failure in leadership.

China has lied about this from the beginning. Amazing the lengths people will go to make Orange Man bad.

the orange man made himself look bad by being dumb enough to go along with what was being said by china - i.e. that call with xi a month or two ago where he seemed to say that they have it under control. he's been saying for three years that china lies about this and that (i.e. trade, i.p. theft), so there isn't any pretending that he shouldn't have been aware.

 

[argh!]

this is about the fabrication of china's numbers, from a month ago:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/chinas-economic-data-have-always-raised-questions-its-coronavirus-numbers-do-too-51581622840?mod=sm_fb_ad_kw&kwp_0=1603820&kwp_4=4793552&kwp_1=2032183&fbclid=IwAR1aS1VH4hjGsH5BbRCts-M9Jt8NWRgdJUkrKAW03WiyaYihHR06J_aly7g

 

[bgbigdog]

Dutch, as a young boy, I lived in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh. There were large manufacturing plants all over the area of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Now those same facilities are falling down or have disappeared. Much of that manufacturing moved to China with little discouragement from our government. I believe most Americans will support a campaign to return the manufacturing, especially, after the current disaster of the virus.

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested in roasting Sleepy Joe on Twitter than doing his job. Amazing the lengths the party of personal responsibility will go to dismiss this failure in leadership.

China has lied about this from the beginning.

You’re absolutely right. As a matter of course, so is Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, banana republics and every other authoritarian and trending-authoritarian country in the world... Isn’t this exactly why you employ your own intelligence agencies? So you don’t have to rely on the word of liars? Nobody is ever going to convince me that actual-actionable information gleaned from our own intelligence people wasn’t available in early January. But if they’re all deep-state, I get that it’s better to ignore it. No reason to spook the markets.

 

[argh!]

a quick look at the government-approved articles posted on wechat (chinese social media) shows that they are blaming italy, the u.s., australia, and others for the virus, while incessantly praising themselves. even the south china morning post, which broke the story in early january, are now publishing crap trying to implicate italy. it is worth noting that jack ma, a ccp member who answers to xi jinping, bought the paper a few years ago. while objective articles can still be found in the paper, they are getting fewer and fewer, undoubtedly due to pressure by the chinese government. if you want to get an idea of how the paid ccp internet shills operate, read the comments section:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076334/coronavirus-strange-pneumonia-seen-lombardy-november-leading

 

[MikeyGriz]

When the time is appropriate, I hope there is a will to move much of the products currently manufactured in China back to the United States. Especially, pharmaceuticals.

How do you think that could be accomplished? Through regulation, government fiat? how do you undue a capitalist world economy that has evolved for the last 50 years to where it is today? Would the industrial and financial entities allow for it? What’s your take on how it would be done because Europe and the rest of the world will continue to engage in commerce with Chiner. Thanks

In all reality, it will be the market that decides. Not the individual consumer (they will have a say too) but the manufacturers and distributors. These folks are getting a painful lesson on supply chain vulnerability. There will be a much greater emphasis on supply availability in the future. I think companies will see that the cheapest is not the best and will start to exert more control over their supply chains by moving them closer to home.

The funny part of this is, the anti globalization folks on both sides of the spectrum will be happy as the economies of the world become less interdependent. This has the potential to unleash a whole new round of economic haves and have-nots across the globe; countries that can produce goods at home vs countries that can’t. As countries become less intertwined, they can become more tribal. Conflict can erupt when there isn’t that strong economic connection.

All because some asshole ate a tainted bat...

In extreme emergencies, disasters, or pandemics, the supply chain is always vulnerable, no matter how it is formulated. It is the nature of the beast. Nothing is set up for the extreme possibilities unless you are willing to tolerate large amounts of waste due to expiration or spoilage, which in turn leads to vulnerability.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested in roasting Sleepy Joe on Twitter than doing his job. Amazing the lengths the party of personal responsibility will go to dismiss this failure in leadership.

China has lied about this from the beginning.

You’re absolutely right. As a matter of course, so is Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, banana republics and every other authoritarian and trending-authoritarian country in the world... Isn’t this exactly why you employ your own intelligence agencies? So you don’t have to rely on the word of liars? Nobody is ever going to convince me that actual-actionable information gleaned from our own intelligence people wasn’t available in early January. But if they’re all deep-state, I get that it’s better to ignore it. No reason to spook the markets.

And when Trump DID act, he was called a racist for overreacting by the MSM....can’t win for losing.

 

[grizghost]

Thank you for the respect due. But it was a serious question, I have no idea or opinion on how it could or should be done that’s why I asked what could be done to reverse the trends to bring manufacturing back to this country. Any action we take against China will result in an at least an a proportionate reaction by them against us in an endless round of trade wars.imo I’m not businessman that’s why I was asking. Thanks

Dutch, as a young boy, I lived in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh. There were large manufacturing plants all over the area of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Now those same facilities are falling down or have disappeared. Much of that manufacturing moved to China with little discouragement from our government. I believe most Americans will support a campaign to return the manufacturing, especially, after the current disaster of the virus.

I think you overestimate a certain group of Americans. Those same Americans who are so worried about being “woke” and PC they don’t even want to acknowledge that the virus CAME from China, or acknowledge China’s secrecy and subterfuge in the past 6 months. They’re either wittingly or unwittingly being China apologists...swallowing hook line and sinker the Chinese propaganda machine....

Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested in roasting Sleepy Joe on Twitter than doing his job. Amazing the lengths the party of personal responsibility will go to dismiss this failure in leadership.

...I know when your fearless leader Obama was running things your were getting chills up your legs!

 

[IdaGriz01]

...
Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested ...

Ah, the wonders of hind-sight. Yes, we now learn that there was intel that the coronavirus was worse than the Chinese were reporting and that it posed a bigger threat than anyone in the administration expected. My first thought is: Who opened his/her yap? Sure it’s great to be “transparent,” but there’s also a responsibility to protect intel sources. That's a big, big reason why information gets classified, BTW. Hopefully, the leak was laundered enough to not reveal the intel source(s), but I wouldn’t count on it. But the media doesn’t give a damn.

But leaving all that aside, the prez has lots of different advisers and experts. One of those expert sources is the CDC. On January 17, the CDC broadcast a long message about the coronavirus to its HAN (Health Alert Network ), which goes out to thousands of recipients across the country (health departments, research schools and hospital, and so on). Link (be warned, it’s quite long): https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/han00426.asp

The header says “This is an official CDC Health Update.” Here are some quotes from the tome they sent out.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) continues to closely monitor an outbreak of a 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in Wuhan City, Hubei Province, China that began in December 2019. CDC has established an Incident Management System to coordinate a domestic and international public health response.
…
Although the transmission dynamics have yet to be determined, CDC currently recommends a cautious approach to patients under investigation for 2019-nCoV …

HAN Message Types
• Health Alert: Conveys the highest level of importance; warrants immediate action or attention.
• Health Advisory: Provides important information for a specific incident or situation; may not require immediate action.
• Health Update: Provides updated information regarding an incident or situation; unlikely to require immediate action.
• Info Service: Provides general information that is not necessarily considered to be of an emergent nature.

Thus, in mid-January, the CDC was recommending only “a cautious approach,” although they had set up “an Incident Management System.” They classified this specific message at the third lowest level of urgency, not as an Alert or even an Advisory. Note that the Health Update level is “unlikely to require immediate action.”

Top officials were getting conflicting stories, one from the intel community and one from the actual health experts. After three years, the prez probably does not particularly trust the intel community anyway (can you say “leaks like a sieve”). When the qualified experts are urging only a “cautious approach,” what would you be likely to do?

On February 7, after the prez put limitations on travel to/from China, the CDC sent out another long information package … again not an Alert or even an Advisory. Buried in that long document was the following:

What are the implications for public health practice?
Health care providers should remain vigilant regarding possible 2019-nCoV exposure not only among returning travelers, but also among persons in close contact with 2019-nCoV patients in the United States.

"Cautious approach" and then "remain vigilant." These are not my opinions, they are actual statements directly from the main body that this country relies upon for national health-system advice.

 

[PlayerRep]

...
Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested ...

Ah, the wonders of hind-sight. Yes, we now learn that there was intel that the coronavirus was worse than the Chinese were reporting and that it posed a bigger threat than anyone in the administration expected. My first thought is: Who opened his/her yap? Sure it’s great to be “transparent,” but there’s also a responsibility to protect intel sources. That's a big, big reason why information gets classified, BTW. Hopefully, the leak was laundered enough to not reveal the intel source(s), but I wouldn’t count on it. But the media doesn’t give a damn.

But leaving all that aside, the prez has lots of different advisers and experts. One of those expert sources is the CDC. On January 17, the CDC broadcast a long message about the coronavirus to its HAN (Health Alert Network ), which goes out to thousands of recipients across the country (health departments, research schools and hospital, and so on). Link (be warned, it’s quite long): https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/han00426.asp

The header says “This is an official CDC Health Update.” Here are some quotes from the tome they sent out.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) continues to closely monitor an outbreak of a 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in Wuhan City, Hubei Province, China that began in December 2019. CDC has established an Incident Management System to coordinate a domestic and international public health response.
…
Although the transmission dynamics have yet to be determined, CDC currently recommends a cautious approach to patients under investigation for 2019-nCoV …

HAN Message Types
• Health Alert: Conveys the highest level of importance; warrants immediate action or attention.
• Health Advisory: Provides important information for a specific incident or situation; may not require immediate action.
• Health Update: Provides updated information regarding an incident or situation; unlikely to require immediate action.
• Info Service: Provides general information that is not necessarily considered to be of an emergent nature.

Thus, in mid-January, the CDC was recommending only “a cautious approach,” although they had set up “an Incident Management System.” They classified this specific message at the third lowest level of urgency, not as an Alert or even an Advisory. Note that the Health Update level is “unlikely to require immediate action.”

Top officials were getting conflicting stories, one from the intel community and one from the actual health experts. After three years, the prez probably does not particularly trust the intel community anyway (can you say “leaks like a sieve”). When the qualified experts are urging only a “cautious approach,” what would you be likely to do?

On February 7, after the prez put limitations on travel to/from China, the CDC sent out another long information package … again not an Alert or even an Advisory. Buried in that long document was the following:

What are the implications for public health practice?
Health care providers should remain vigilant regarding possible 2019-nCoV exposure not only among returning travelers, but also among persons in close contact with 2019-nCoV patients in the United States.

"Cautious approach" and then "remain vigilant." These are not my opinions, they are actual statements directly from the main body that this country relies upon for national health-system advice.

Where's that supposed Intelligence? All that I've seen is deep staters leaking that Burr supposedly had Intelligence before he sold his stock. I'm not sure I think that's true.

 

[IdaGriz01]

...
Trump had ample warning from the intelligence community that this thing had the potential to explode here. He was more interested ...

Ah, the wonders of hind-sight. Yes, we now learn that there was intel that the coronavirus was worse than the Chinese were reporting and that it posed a bigger threat than anyone in the administration expected. My first thought is: Who opened his/her yap? Sure it’s great to be “transparent,” but there’s also a responsibility to protect intel sources. That's a big, big reason why information gets classified, BTW. Hopefully, the leak was laundered enough to not reveal the intel source(s), but I wouldn’t count on it. But the media doesn’t give a damn.
...
[So] Top officials were getting conflicting stories, one from the intel community and one from the actual health experts. After three years, the prez probably does not particularly trust the intel community anyway (can you say “leaks like a sieve”). When the qualified experts are urging only a “cautious approach,” what would you be likely to do?
...
"Cautious approach" and then "remain vigilant." These are not my opinions, they are actual statements directly from the main body that this country relies upon for national health-system advice.

Where's that supposed Intelligence? All that I've seen is deep staters leaking that Burr supposedly had Intelligence before he sold his stock. I'm not sure I think that's true.

Good question, and one I have no answer for. Perhaps I should have said "purported intel." Real intel or not, the bottom line is that officials had to go with the actual subject experts at the CDC. Trust me, intel agents and their controls are not likely to be a good source for medical information. Now a report that the Chinese were lying through their teeth ... that they can handle and it's an easy call. But if they really were reports that projected a big disaster, who were they talking to? Some panicky refugee? Or a source actually in the know? But the Chinese basically let the original "whistle-blower" -- Li Wenliang -- die, after muzzling him. What are the chances that others "in the know" didn't get the message?

 

[Hoops watcher]

When the time is appropriate, I hope there is a will to move much of the products currently manufactured in China back to the United States. Especially, pharmaceuticals.

How do you think that could be accomplished? Through regulation, government fiat? how do you undue a capitalist world economy that has evolved for the last 50 years to where it is today? Would the industrial and financial entities allow for it? What’s your take on how it would be done because Europe and the rest of the world will continue to engage in commerce with Chiner. Thanks

In all reality, it will be the market that decides. Not the individual consumer (they will have a say too) but the manufacturers and distributors. These folks are getting a painful lesson on supply chain vulnerability. There will be a much greater emphasis on supply availability in the future. I think companies will see that the cheapest is not the best and will start to exert more control over their supply chains by moving them closer to home.

The funny part of this is, the anti globalization folks on both sides of the spectrum will be happy as the economies of the world become less interdependent. This has the potential to unleash a whole new round of economic haves and have-nots across the globe; countries that can produce goods at home vs countries that can’t. As countries become less intertwined, they can become more tribal. Conflict can erupt when there isn’t that strong economic connection.

All because some asshole ate a tainted bat...

Good post. I fear the same despite believing the CCP has to eventually pay for their subterfuge. Some economist stated it's better to have trade crossing borders than armies and I think it's in our interest to have a prosperous globe. It doesn't have to be a zero sum game, the whole point of trade is mutual benefit at it's most basic level. I'd guess after things shake out it will be time to take another look when cooler heads return.

Also the blame game is fucking pointless right now. Blaming one guy is moronic. If the H1N1 virus had been this contagious it would have been the previous guy in the hot seat. Given the slant of the media he got a pass back then for the most part. These pathogens are out there and blaming either guy is a fools errand. It is time for the assholes in DC to get their shit together. If they continue playing politics we will all lose and it will be time to send them all on a long walk on a short plank.