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The question I hate to even ask

Buttegrizzle

Well-known member
DONOR
First off, I'm a fan of what MD has done for the program. He stepped up during the worst possible time and under the shitstorm circumstances had only one off-year and appears to have the Caddy back on the road. BUT, does his presumable short tenure (I'm assuming he will want to retire within a relatively short time regardless of success) have an adverse effect on recruiting? Do the recent de-commits have anything to do with uncertainty as to where the program will be in two or three years? Do Haslam, Coach D and staff discuss a future transition? Does MD get another extension? Does he want one?
 
At present time, I'm assuming the assistant coaches who are doing the recruiting (mostly Justin Green) are telling kids the staff is in-tact. That's not a lie. There has been absolutely no public announcement of any kind that a coaching change will be made, that a coaching search is on or that anything with the coaching staff will be different in 2014. NONE. So, I don't think the de-committs have anything to do with anything more than the two kids who want to play and feel that they can play at a bigger program, as they've both stated. As far as Griz fans go, Mick will be back next season and no one has any evidence to the contrary.
 
havgrizfan said:
At present time, I'm assuming the assistant coaches who are doing the recruiting (mostly Justin Green) are telling kids the staff is in-tact. That's not a lie. There has been absolutely no public announcement of any kind that a coaching change will be made, that a coaching search is on or that anything with the coaching staff will be different in 2014. NONE. So, I don't think the de-committs have anything to do with anything more than the two kids who want to play and feel that they can play at a bigger program, as they've both stated. As far as Griz fans go, Mick will be back next season and no one has any evidence to the contrary.

I'm not an advocate of Mr Delaney sticking around for 5 more years, but it seems he has sold some pretty good football players to come here, given the cluster when he got here he's done a pretty good job.

He has literally righted the ship, discipline is where it should be, kudos to Mick. Hopefully it morphs into an orderly transition to a younger staff in the future. Then Mick can play golf as should be his just reward for stepping in and doing yeomans work. Thanks, Coach.
 
I'm not worried about the de-commits here...we're talking about 17-18 yr old kids. I think Mick is on the way to earning a few more years, if he choses to do so. However, I must throw caution to the wind. The heart of the schedule is in front of us and there are some definite challenges ahead. The opponents so far have a collective record of 15-24 which may or may not be indicative of anything other than "stats"...I'll let the stat posters hammer that one out during the work day. Cal Poly, EWU, Sac on the road, and the Scats at their place are going to be the deciding factors...most likely. The 2013 campaign has been outstanding with the NAU game being the lone "Titanic," which no one has been able to explain. Should things go south, administrative decisions could change like the weather. I see "NO" reason for the possibility of this happening. So, at this juncture of the season it's probably wise not to purchase the cart before we have the horse. :egriz:
 
Good comments all. I was not thinking of Coach D's record going south such that he would be unwelcome. I think he and the staff will have a great season going 8-3 or 9-2 at worst and getting into post season. I guess my main question was how long will he stay, assuming things chug along as normal (with winning seasons and deep playoff runs, etc.) over the next couple seasons?
 
Delaney has been on record stating he would like a couple of more years if all goes well this season. There were several quotes of this nature over last summer. He appears to be engergized and enjoying this new opportunity. It's nice to have some continuity assuming the caddy is indeed back on the road after last season.
 
I thought I recalled that Mick in the off-season was quoted saying that he wanted 2 or 3 more years? So far this year it is hard to argue with the results, however as other posters pointed out the teams the Griz have beat this year aren't exactly powerhouses. Lets see how the next 3 weeks play out and we'll really see how much this team has turned the corner compared to last year.

This is a bit of a guess on my part but I wonder if Mick's ideal plan is to be head coach for a few more years until someone within the current ranks of the coaching staff is ready to take over for him. The easy presumption would be Gragg, Gregorak, or Hynson.
 
Personally (witch don't matter and is just an opinion) I think he plays a very vanilla style of football and probably won't win the Chipper but its not bad. I do remember him talking about a contract extension and you can bet your ass he'll get. Especially if/when he makes the post season this year. If he leaves maybe BH will be fed up with UNLV and come back :lol:
 
BWahlberg said:
I thought I recalled that Mick in the off-season was quoted saying that he wanted 2 or 3 more years? So far this year it is hard to argue with the results, however as other posters pointed out the teams the Griz have beat this year aren't exactly powerhouses. Lets see how the next 3 weeks play out and we'll really see how much this team has turned the corner compared to last year.

This is a bit of a guess on my part but I wonder if Mick's ideal plan is to be head coach for a few more years until someone within the current ranks of the coaching staff is ready to take over for him. The easy presumption would be Gragg, Gregorak, or Hynson.

Brint,

I recall one or two other posters in the recent past stating Scott G. will never be head coach here. I'm not sure what their reasoning is or what knowledge they might posses that makes them believe that? I was wondering if you might have some insight into why they believe this about him. Just curious if you had heard this too?

Myself, I don't see any reason why he couldn't end up as a head coach here. All American here, long NFL career, head coach at the H.S. level, exerpeince as an assistant at the college level. I got to know him back in our Miller Hall days, we lived on the same floor and socialized a bit at Griz basketball games and watching Dallas Cowboys games with Matt Wells in the dorm lounge. He was always down to earth and friendly. He also seemed to be a passionate guy about the game.

I'm just looking for your and other posters opinions on the likelyhood of him being selected as the Grizzly head coach someday? And hopefully, just on his merits and leaving the whole hire from within or without debate separate.
 
rimrockgriz said:
I'm not worried about the de-commits here...we're talking about 17-18 yr old kids. I think Mick is on the way to earning a few more years, if he choses to do so. However, I must throw caution to the wind. The heart of the schedule is in front of us and there are some definite challenges ahead. The opponents so far have a collective record of 15-24 which may or may not be indicative of anything other than "stats"...I'll let the stat posters hammer that one out during the work day. Cal Poly, EWU, Sac on the road, and the Scats at their place are going to be the deciding factors...most likely. The 2013 campaign has been outstanding with the NAU game being the lone "Titanic," which no one has been able to explain. Should things go south, administrative decisions could change like the weather. I see "NO" reason for the possibility of this happening. So, at this juncture of the season it's probably wise not to purchase the cart before we have the horse. :egriz:

By comparison, MSU's opponents have won only 16 games, and 4 of those were wins by Colo Mesa. EWU's have won 19, including 3 wins by West Ore. 5 of those wins come from EWU's loss to SHS. Of the teams EWU has beaten, and excluding West Ore, those teams have 8 wins (5 of which come from Ore. St.).
 
PlayerRep said:
rimrockgriz said:
I'm not worried about the de-commits here...we're talking about 17-18 yr old kids. I think Mick is on the way to earning a few more years, if he choses to do so. However, I must throw caution to the wind. The heart of the schedule is in front of us and there are some definite challenges ahead. The opponents so far have a collective record of 15-24 which may or may not be indicative of anything other than "stats"...I'll let the stat posters hammer that one out during the work day. Cal Poly, EWU, Sac on the road, and the Scats at their place are going to be the deciding factors...most likely. The 2013 campaign has been outstanding with the NAU game being the lone "Titanic," which no one has been able to explain. Should things go south, administrative decisions could change like the weather. I see "NO" reason for the possibility of this happening. So, at this juncture of the season it's probably wise not to purchase the cart before we have the horse. :egriz:

By comparison, MSU's opponents have won only 16 games, and 4 of those were wins by Colo Mesa. EWU's have won 19, including 3 wins by West Ore. 5 of those wins come from EWU's loss to SHS. Of the teams EWU has beaten, and excluding West Ore, those teams have 8 wins (5 of which come from Ore. St.).

:clap: :thumb:

The "our opponents record isn't very good" argument is old and tiresome. Towson just played someone with a pulse finally and got beat soundly. Any given saturday....
 
PlayerRep said:
rimrockgriz said:
I'm not worried about the de-commits here...we're talking about 17-18 yr old kids. I think Mick is on the way to earning a few more years, if he choses to do so. However, I must throw caution to the wind. The heart of the schedule is in front of us and there are some definite challenges ahead. The opponents so far have a collective record of 15-24 which may or may not be indicative of anything other than "stats"...I'll let the stat posters hammer that one out during the work day. Cal Poly, EWU, Sac on the road, and the Scats at their place are going to be the deciding factors...most likely. The 2013 campaign has been outstanding with the NAU game being the lone "Titanic," which no one has been able to explain. Should things go south, administrative decisions could change like the weather. I see "NO" reason for the possibility of this happening. So, at this juncture of the season it's probably wise not to purchase the cart before we have the horse. :egriz:

By comparison, MSU's opponents have won only 16 games, and 4 of those were wins by Colo Mesa. EWU's have won 19, including 3 wins by West Ore. 5 of those wins come from EWU's loss to SHS. Of the teams EWU has beaten, and excluding West Ore, those teams have 8 wins (5 of which come from Ore. St.).

True... but MSU "Almost Beat" both SMU and SFA, so we have that going for us. UM on the other hand, got destroyed by NAU.
 
kurtismichael said:
Brint,

I recall one or two other posters in the recent past stating Scott G. will never be head coach here. I'm not sure what their reasoning is or what knowledge they might posses that makes them believe that? I was wondering if you might have some insight into why they believe this about him. Just curious if you had heard this too?

Myself, I don't see any reason why he couldn't end up as a head coach here. All American here, long NFL career, head coach at the H.S. level, exerpeince as an assistant at the college level. I got to know him back in our Miller Hall days, we lived on the same floor and socialized a bit at Griz basketball games and watching Dallas Cowboys games with Matt Wells in the dorm lounge. He was always down to earth and friendly. He also seemed to be a passionate guy about the game.

I'm just looking for your and other posters opinions on the likelyhood of him being selected as the Grizzly head coach someday? And hopefully, just on his merits and leaving the whole hire from within or without debate separate.

By no means am I any expert on this topic. He could be a great head coach, however I would have some reservations about him as a head coach and this is based solely on what I've seen, what I've been told, and how I personally draw an opinion on the right fit for a head coach.

These opinions of mine could be way off, others feel free to let me have it:

1. Inexperience. 4 years ago Gragg was coaching in high school. He now has just a 1/2 season as a Co-OC under his belt and he doesn't even call the plays. He's never really managed a group of coaches either, he's just been responsible for his one job. In a few years he will have some experience but it won't be incredibly vast. One could argue the "inexperience" aspect could carry over to all three of the coaches I mentioned as possible internal candidates.

2. Positive attitude. Gragg has been quoted that he will never get negative with any of his players and he always believes staying on the positive side is best. While that's good on the surface you see that a lot of coaches will be more successful in working with players by tearing them down and building them back up. The results with the O-line so far have been good, so his strategy seems to work well with the individual unit. What I saw and have perceived as successful though is that the HC/DC/OC are usually more vocal and challenge the players, they test their mental toughness, they point out and talk about the bad things they see. The assistants then are there to rally the guys more, be more positive, build them back up. I've seen that with the last 3 coaching staff's here. Not sure if Gragg can make the switch to playing that role - I'd think he probably wouldn't want to even, he would probably want to remain a positive thinker all the time as a head coach, since that's his M.O.

3. Coaching toughness. Jay Bilias's recent book on toughness explores the aspect of what he believes is successful coaching and there's a blend and practice of building tough players. I don't know if Gragg does that currently and personally I think that's a vital role a head coach needs. Bilas talks about reaching a standard of excellence and how Coach K would be even more frustrated with wins with sloppy play than losses. With Gragg, what I've seen in practice, is that if what the player did was good enough for him the player was rewarded as if it were perfect. I've seen linemen miss blocks, run into each other, or run plays for no gain or a loss in practices where Gragg is shouting, "Good! Good! Your feet were right where they should be (or pointing out at least some aspect where the player did good, even if the result wan't "good"). That would really concern me if that became a top-down mantra with the team. I should throw a heavy disclaimer that this opinion is based solely on what I see in spring/fall camp, it could be totally different in meetings and watching film.

All observational opinions coming from a fan who has never played the game. I could be dead wrong here, it's my own opinion.
 
poorgriz said:
PlayerRep said:
rimrockgriz said:
I'm not worried about the de-commits here...we're talking about 17-18 yr old kids. I think Mick is on the way to earning a few more years, if he choses to do so. However, I must throw caution to the wind. The heart of the schedule is in front of us and there are some definite challenges ahead. The opponents so far have a collective record of 15-24 which may or may not be indicative of anything other than "stats"...I'll let the stat posters hammer that one out during the work day. Cal Poly, EWU, Sac on the road, and the Scats at their place are going to be the deciding factors...most likely. The 2013 campaign has been outstanding with the NAU game being the lone "Titanic," which no one has been able to explain. Should things go south, administrative decisions could change like the weather. I see "NO" reason for the possibility of this happening. So, at this juncture of the season it's probably wise not to purchase the cart before we have the horse. :egriz:

By comparison, MSU's opponents have won only 16 games, and 4 of those were wins by Colo Mesa. EWU's have won 19, including 3 wins by West Ore. 5 of those wins come from EWU's loss to SHS. Of the teams EWU has beaten, and excluding West Ore, those teams have 8 wins (5 of which come from Ore. St.).

True... but MSU "Almost Beat" both SMU and SFA, so we have that going for us. UM on the other hand, got destroyed by NAU.

Almost only counts in horseshoes, and this is football. :cool:
 
BWahlberg said:
kurtismichael said:
Brint,

I recall one or two other posters in the recent past stating Scott G. will never be head coach here. I'm not sure what their reasoning is or what knowledge they might posses that makes them believe that? I was wondering if you might have some insight into why they believe this about him. Just curious if you had heard this too?

Myself, I don't see any reason why he couldn't end up as a head coach here. All American here, long NFL career, head coach at the H.S. level, exerpeince as an assistant at the college level. I got to know him back in our Miller Hall days, we lived on the same floor and socialized a bit at Griz basketball games and watching Dallas Cowboys games with Matt Wells in the dorm lounge. He was always down to earth and friendly. He also seemed to be a passionate guy about the game.

I'm just looking for your and other posters opinions on the likelyhood of him being selected as the Grizzly head coach someday? And hopefully, just on his merits and leaving the whole hire from within or without debate separate.

By no means am I any expert on this topic. He could be a great head coach, however I would have some reservations about him as a head coach and this is based solely on what I've seen, what I've been told, and how I personally draw an opinion on the right fit for a head coach.

These opinions of mine could be way off, others feel free to let me have it:

1. Inexperience. 4 years ago Gragg was coaching in high school. He now has just a 1/2 season as a Co-OC under his belt and he doesn't even call the plays. He's never really managed a group of coaches either, he's just been responsible for his one job. In a few years he will have some experience but it won't be incredibly vast. One could argue the "inexperience" aspect could carry over to all three of the coaches I mentioned as possible internal candidates.

2. Positive attitude. Gragg has been quoted that he will never get negative with any of his players and he always believes staying on the positive side is best. While that's good on the surface you see that a lot of coaches will be more successful in working with players by tearing them down and building them back up. The results with the O-line so far have been good, so his strategy seems to work well with the individual unit. What I saw and have perceived as successful though is that the HC/DC/OC are usually more vocal and challenge the players, they test their mental toughness, they point out and talk about the bad things they see. The assistants then are there to rally the guys more, be more positive, build them back up. I've seen that with the last 3 coaching staff's here. Not sure if Gragg can make the switch to playing that role - I'd think he probably wouldn't want to even, he would probably want to remain a positive thinker all the time as a head coach, since that's his M.O.

3. Coaching toughness. Jay Bilias's recent book on toughness explores the aspect of what he believes is successful coaching and there's a blend and practice of building tough players. I don't know if Gragg does that currently and personally I think that's a vital role a head coach needs. Bilas talks about reaching a standard of excellence and how Coach K would be even more frustrated with wins with sloppy play than losses. With Gragg, what I've seen in practice, is that if what the player did was good enough for him the player was rewarded as if it were perfect. I've seen linemen miss blocks, run into each other, or run plays for no gain or a loss in practices where Gragg is shouting, "Good! Good! Your feet were right where they should be (or pointing out at least some aspect where the player did good, even if the result wan't "good"). That would really concern me if that became a top-down mantra with the team. I should throw a heavy disclaimer that this opinion is based solely on what I see in spring/fall camp, it could be totally different in meetings and watching film.

All observational opinions coming from a fan who has never played the game. I could be dead wrong here, it's my own opinion.


Thanks for your opinion. I mentioned back when I knew him briefly, he seemed a really nice and positive guy. Like you said though that might not work as a head coach. Also, you are right as far as his ability to manage a group of coaches is an unknown.

I think people had some of the same concerns with Tinkle when he took over. I believe fit too him a little while to make the transition from nice guy/buddy coach as an assistant to a bit tougher as a head coach.

Well, either way it is fun to speculate and if he ever does end up being the the head coach I wish him well.
 
I vote they hire Alpha to coach the defense and Player Rep to coach the offense. Our team would be able to tackle and they would go for it on 4th down every time. Think of intensity in practice!
 
I find it interesting that an extension hasn't already been announced. And I have no idea if one is in the works.

I am of the opinion that Mick did a great job righting the ship. But I don't see him as the long term (i.e., more than next year) answer. I share Brint's concerns regarding Scott Gragg. Not sure there is a nicer guy around, and he is a very good position coach. Just not sure how he would be as a head guy. Then again, I had the exact same concern about Wayne Tinkle. Appears I was wrong on that one. Again.

IF UM goes the inbred approach, I would hope it is Gregorak. I don't know much about Hynson. I think Justin Green may end up being the best of the group in a few years, but he is pretty young.

In my perfect world, Haslam would announce that next year will be Mick's last (with Mick's agreement. They make Mick a consultant/fund raiser for a couple of years as a thank you), and that they are starting a national search NOW. And I would hope they would truly do a national search, not one that ends at Frenchtown and Clinton. Let the current coaches throw their names in the hat, but make sure it is the best person who gets hired. Have the new coach in place by June, so that he can participate / observe in summer camps. May be a little awkward next year, but the assistant coaches would have a nice long "try-out" for their jobs also.
 
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