Sam Herder Backpedals, after Being Proven Wrong by Me

[mthoopsfan]

I see that Herder has finally woken up. Now he's backpedalling and claiming almost "everyone", except the playoff committee, thought D2 games/wins were not considered or included on playoff team resumes. But he doesn't admit that much of the mistaken confusion was actually caused by his mistakes on the subject in recent years.

As I said earlier, I communicated with 2 former and 1 current selection committee chair. None of them confirmed what Herder had been saying. Last year's chair referred me to the current chair. The current chair clearly set the record straight. And Haslam apparently also gave a radio interview on the subject last weekend.

D2 games are certainly part of a team's playoff resume and are considered. Obviously, the consideration they get from the committee depends on the quality of the particular D2 team played. As it should be. Overall wins are criterion. As is Strength of Schedule. Only 6 DI wins "may" be held against a team. That has always been known and a criterion. The number of DI wins is a factor too.

As I have been saying, if UM has enough DI wins, Ferris will likely help UM and won't hurt UM.

https://herosports.com/fcs-playoffs-non-d1-wins-bzbz/?fbclid=IwAR1-akGt2k_FV71HqHFXCSZGpEgRUs0p4lCEK-v2rxoT0DX2c1os_abVuRw_aem_AW8_4HvtAQDKt7-Bi_OFv3P-nDHvb4bdbUl0Upg5w77MaRWD1M2P6lTr6AiMwNugc5U

 

[Mousegriz]

Mthoopsfan aka HerderBuster.

Very impressed! Should hit all the espn talk shows tomorrow!

 

[Montanabob]

I see that Herder has finally woken up. Now he's backpedalling and claiming almost "everyone", except the playoff committee, thought D2 games/wins were not considered or included on playoff team resumes. But he doesn't admit that much of the mistaken confusion was actually caused by his mistakes on the subject in recent years.

As I said earlier, I communicated with 2 former and 1 current selection committee chair. None of them confirmed what Herder had been saying. Last year's chair referred me to the current chair. The current chair clearly set the record straight. And Haslam apparently also gave a radio interview on the subject last weekend.

D2 games are certainly part of a team's playoff resume and are considered. Obviously, the consideration they get from the committee depends on the quality of the particular D2 team played. As it should be. Overall wins are criterion. As is Strength of Schedule. Only 6 DI wins "may" be held against a team. That has always been known and a criterion. The number of DI wins is a factor too.

As I have been saying, if UM has enough DI wins, Ferris will likely help UM and won't hurt UM.

https://herosports.com/fcs-playoffs-non-d1-wins-bzbz/?fbclid=IwAR1-akGt2k_FV71HqHFXCSZGpEgRUs0p4lCEK-v2rxoT0DX2c1os_abVuRw_aem_AW8_4HvtAQDKt7-Bi_OFv3P-nDHvb4bdbUl0Upg5w77MaRWD1M2P6lTr6AiMwNugc5U

at least Ferris State plans for the playoffs....
https://ferrisstate.prestosports.com/sports/fball/2023-24/schedule

 

[3-7-77]

I see that Herder has finally woken up. Now he's backpedalling and claiming almost "everyone", except the playoff committee, thought D2 games/wins were not considered or included on playoff team resumes. But he doesn't admit that much of the mistaken confusion was actually caused by his mistakes on the subject in recent years.

As I said earlier, I communicated with 2 former and 1 current selection committee chair. None of them confirmed what Herder had been saying. Last year's chair referred me to the current chair. The current chair clearly set the record straight. And Haslam apparently also gave a radio interview on the subject last weekend.

D2 games are certainly part of a team's playoff resume and are considered. Obviously, the consideration they get from the committee depends on the quality of the particular D2 team played. As it should be. Overall wins are criterion. As is Strength of Schedule. Only 6 DI wins "may" be held against a team. That has always been known and a criterion. The number of DI wins is a factor too.

As I have been saying, if UM has enough DI wins, Ferris will likely help UM and won't hurt UM.

https://herosports.com/fcs-playoffs-non-d1-wins-bzbz/?fbclid=IwAR1-akGt2k_FV71HqHFXCSZGpEgRUs0p4lCEK-v2rxoT0DX2c1os_abVuRw_aem_AW8_4HvtAQDKt7-Bi_OFv3P-nDHvb4bdbUl0Upg5w77MaRWD1M2P6lTr6AiMwNugc5U

Your detractors, most of them, will never admit you were right. Well done! :thumb:

 

[Paytonlives]

Herder is and has always been a douche

 

[BrownBear9501]

To sum it up: Hoops is right and Herder is an idiot that never played the game.

 

[Bear Spray]

To sum it up: Hoops is right and Herder is an idiot that never played the game.

To sum it up, Hoopster is right. Always. Even when he's wrong, which is more often than not. But I digress. All hail Hoopter or suffer ye his wrath! Especially if you've never played the game.

 

[Robsnotes4u]

To sum it up: Hoops is right and Herder is an idiot that never played the game.

To sum it up, Hoopster is right. Always. Even when he's wrong, which is more often than not. But I digress. All hail Hoopter or suffer ye his wrath! Especially if you've never played the game.

Let him gloat, as it is a non-counter, a term that was once used. Really there isn’t much difference if you read what was said by the committee chairman. 7 D1 wins is the key, 6 can get in, but you better have a strong SOS, finish strong, and have some big wins and no bad losses. Look at Youngstown in 2013, no D2 games, playing in the MVFC, the strongest conference. Started out 8-1, with the loss being to a FBS team. Lost the last three to end up 8-4. No big wins, and finished horrible. Missed the playoffs! They have missed the multiple times at 7-4. By the way, if you haven’t watched the YSU/SIU game from last week, watch it.

What happens when you end up 7-4, losing three of your last 5, your signature win isn’t sniffing the top 25, you have a loss to an unranked team, and you have a d2 win? That D2 win gives you a win, but not anything that helps the resume. I would guess at the point it is pretty hard to be on the bubble, as a team wouldn’t be in the top 25 anymore. That is one scenario. Maybe the Griz beat Idaho this week, or Sac, Or the Cats. Maybe the win more than one. Maybe they lose those and PSU. We will find out.

The Cats don’t have ant easy road either; Sac St , Idaho and Eastern? Hell the last 5. No easy road to 7 D1 wins. What helps the Cats is depth. They can lose people at main positions and still compete.

Here is part of the article, of course most didn’t read it..

“ Take this quote, for example, from last year’s playoff committee chair Jermaine Truax (Bucknell AD) on UC Davis being left out at 6-5. While UC Davis did play all D1 opponents, Truax referenced its number of D1 wins.

“In a crowded field, it was hard when you only have six D1 wins,” Truax told 406 MT Sports. “UC Davis made a late push to get in there … and while they showed well, they only finished with six D1 wins … every other team we were talking about had seven.”

Florida A&M was left out of the playoff bracket last year at 9-2. Truax referenced FAMU’s strength of schedule and D2 win when giving reasons why the Rattlers were left out.

“There are scheduling realities that the committee has to understand,” Halpin said. “Teams have had to, whether it’s geography or other reasons, schedule some teams that are not Division 1. But that also doesn’t mean if you schedule a D2 team, that it’s just left out and that win doesn’t mean anything. It does mean something, it just doesn’t mean as much.”

Halpin agreed that the best way to phrase it is that non-D1 wins still count on your playoff resume, but scheduling non-D1 opponents can potentially hurt you because it’s one less opportunity at a D1 win’

The rules may not say non-counter, but the reality is there is a difference when you are on the bubble.. I can hear it already, the Griz end up 7-4 and are left out. The chairman says the Griz were passed over because they had 6 D1 win and the others had 7. Hoops, but, but, D2 wins are counters. As Bill Engvall says, “here’s your sign!”

 

[mthoopsfan]

To sum it up: Hoops is right and Herder is an idiot that never played the game.

To sum it up, Hoopster is right. Always. Even when he's wrong, which is more often than not. But I digress. All hail Hoopter or suffer ye his wrath! Especially if you've never played the game.

Yes, you are correct that I am right most of the time on my substantive football posts.

 

[mthoopsfan]

To sum it up, Hoopster is right. Always. Even when he's wrong, which is more often than not. But I digress. All hail Hoopter or suffer ye his wrath! Especially if you've never played the game.

Let him gloat, as it is a non-counter, a term that was once used. Really there isn’t much difference if you read what was said by the committee chairman. 7 D1 wins is the key, 6 can get in, but you better have a strong SOS, finish strong, and have some big wins and no bad losses. Look at Youngstown in 2013, no D2 games, playing in the MVFC, the strongest conference. Started out 8-1, with the loss being to a FBS team. Lost the last three to end up 8-4. No big wins, and finished horrible. Missed the playoffs! They have missed the multiple times at 7-4. By the way, if you haven’t watched the YSU/SIU game from last week, watch it.

What happens when you end up 7-4, losing three of your last 5, your signature win isn’t sniffing the top 25, you have a loss to an unranked team, and you have a d2 win? That D2 win gives you a win, but not anything that helps the resume. I would guess at the point it is pretty hard to be on the bubble, as a team wouldn’t be in the top 25 anymore. That is one scenario. Maybe the Griz beat Idaho this week, or Sac, Or the Cats. Maybe the win more than one. Maybe they lose those and PSU. We will find out.

The Cats don’t have ant easy road either; Sac St , Idaho and Eastern? Hell the last 5. No easy road to 7 D1 wins. What helps the Cats is depth. They can lose people at main positions and still compete.

Here is part of the article, of course most didn’t read it..

“ Take this quote, for example, from last year’s playoff committee chair Jermaine Truax (Bucknell AD) on UC Davis being left out at 6-5. While UC Davis did play all D1 opponents, Truax referenced its number of D1 wins.

“In a crowded field, it was hard when you only have six D1 wins,” Truax told 406 MT Sports. “UC Davis made a late push to get in there … and while they showed well, they only finished with six D1 wins … every other team we were talking about had seven.”

Florida A&M was left out of the playoff bracket last year at 9-2. Truax referenced FAMU’s strength of schedule and D2 win when giving reasons why the Rattlers were left out.

“There are scheduling realities that the committee has to understand,” Halpin said. “Teams have had to, whether it’s geography or other reasons, schedule some teams that are not Division 1. But that also doesn’t mean if you schedule a D2 team, that it’s just left out and that win doesn’t mean anything. It does mean something, it just doesn’t mean as much.”

Halpin agreed that the best way to phrase it is that non-D1 wins still count on your playoff resume, but scheduling non-D1 opponents can potentially hurt you because it’s one less opportunity at a D1 win’

The rules may not say non-counter, but the reality is there is a difference when you are on the bubble.. I can hear it already, the Griz end up 7-4 and are left out. The chairman says the Griz were passed over because they had 6 D1 win and the others had 7. Hoops, but, but, D2 wins are counters. As Bill Engvall says, “here’s your sign!”

It's not a non-counter. It counts in virtually every respect, except not as a D2 win. Where's your non-counter quote by the way? Just curious. Would like to see what, where and when.

While record, SOS and wins/losses are important, where do the rules say anything about bad losses? You are just making that up.

"But that also doesn’t mean if you schedule a D2 team, that it’s just left out and that win doesn’t mean anything. It does mean something, it just doesn’t mean as much.” It doesn't mean it's a D1 win, of course, but beating Ferris is a positive.

Yes, everyone know D1 wins are important and only 6 D1 wins is usually trouble. As for Florida A&M, D2 wins often hurt SOS. Had Florida A&M beat Ferris last year, that would have helped Florida A&M.

I've communicated directly with last year's and this year's chairman in the past 10 days. How many times have you had direct communication with ever.

Rob, you were wrong wrong wrong. And you are still wrong. You don't understand football. You just Google. Your man Herder is in the same category, but at least he talks to a lot of people in FCS. You two have huge egg on your faces. You will never live it down. You are no credibility, at least on egriz, except maybe some support from some dummies.

 

[svvandal]

Looks like we found the Bobby Hauck burner account! Good luck on Saturday night, Bob.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Hey Rob, the playoff committee told me this:

"Division 2 games are not automatically removed from a team’s resume, but do become a point of evaluation when comparing teams under consideration."

Do you see the word or concept of "non-counter" in there? I'm happy to have the committee consider the Griz win over D2 Ferris. Some have said Ferris would be a top 25 team in FCS. I say that Ferris helps the Griz with SOS and comparison, but, of course, not with the D2 wins total.