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rantin' n' ramblin'...

citygriz

Well-known member
seeding, the good: #13, we get some respect. we've got one crucial ingredient for tournament success: a strong backcourt. syracuse has to travel cross-country. will played v. new mexico in san jose and he'll have family. should be a good griz contingent on hand. the crowd will be with us.

seeding, the bad: we're missisng the two elements we really need to move on: a 12 seed or better, and a strong post player a la qvale. embarrasing last night the way hutchison gave up post position. you thought weber abused us inside? wait till you see the cuse. big east one or two of top conferences in the country.

moving up to a better conference: in the twenty years or so we've been arguing this, the entire debate has taken place on the football board, within the context of what's best for the football program. meantime, there has never been a question EVER but what a move up wouldn't have have been better for the basketball program. why? we have a BIG RECRUIT in the wings, one highly touted by his sisters, and no question our case would be better if we played better competition in real arenas, not sac state and portland state in ymca gyms. better competition would have aided attendance. plus the mountain west is getting a lot of respect nationally, five teams in if boise made it. our r.p.i. would improve dramatically because of the competition, and we wouldn't have to depend on a one-and-done conference tournament to get in. think of the team tinks could have recruited to the mountain west.

weber state: try as i will to put some venom in our rivalry, respect for them and their program snuffs it every time. i love their arena, the mutual respect that has developed over the years, and the fact they're the one team in the big sky that may have prepared us for the big dance. bolomboy is poised to be the dwight howard of the big sky conference, and kyndahl hill, a 6'7" kid who redshirted this year, is a three-star high school prospect ready to have an impact. martin, wiley and coleman better muscle up, and fast.

last night's game: weber had more balance, we had the two best players on the court. and our best came through when they needed to.

will cherry: four trips to the conference finals in four years, three trips to the big dance, following two trips to the california state championship game in high school. this kid is a gamer. i hope he shows well against syracuse; it would help his professional career.

tinkle's future: his personal bright star is our dark planet. one team scares me: washington state. his home turf, near montana, close to elle at gonzaga, competing against monty and krysko. one negative for washington state: they haven't had good success with big sky coaches, either in football (paul wulff) or basketball (ken bone.) my wish on a bright star: we were in the mountain west, and one of our alums was phil knight (or t. boone pickens.)

late questions: is billy reader still on our radar? and why didn't marko kovacevic stay with us and sit out a year? he couldn't play at utah this year either. (grizrule?)
 
citay said:
tinkle's future: his personal bright star is our dark planet. one team scares me: washington state. his home turf, near montana, close to elle at gonzaga, competing against monty and krysko. one negative for washington state: they haven't had good success with big sky coaches, either in football (paul wulff) or basketball (ken bone.) my wish: we were in the mountain west, and one of our alums was phil Knight (or t. boone pickens.)

We have a UM basketball alum VERY, VERY high up in Phil Knight's organization, making (I'm sure) extremely good money.... :cool: :cool:. Wonder if he's ever been approached.... :|
 
AZGrizFan said:
citay said:
tinkle's future: his personal bright star is our dark planet. one team scares me: washington state. his home turf, near montana, close to elle at gonzaga, competing against monty and krysko. one negative for washington state: they haven't had good success with big sky coaches, either in football (paul wulff) or basketball (ken bone.) my wish: we were in the mountain west, and one of our alums was phil Knight (or t. boone pickens.)

We have a UM basketball alum VERY, VERY high up in Phil Knight's organization, making (I'm sure) extremely good money.... :cool: :cool:. Wonder if he's ever been approached.... :|

He and Ament could both help out a bit, I imagine.
 
citay said:
moving up to a better conference: in the twenty years or so we've been arguing this, the entire debate has taken place on the football board, within the context of what's best for the football program. meantime, there has never been a question EVER but what a move up wouldn't have have been better for the basketball program. why? we have a BIG RECRUIT in the wings, one highly touted by his sisters, and no question our case would be better if we played better competition in real arenas, not sac state and portland state in ymca gyms. better competition would have aided attendance. plus the mountain west is getting a lot of respect nationally, five teams in if boise made it. our r.p.i. would improve dramatically because of the competition, and we wouldn't have to depend on a one-and-done conference tournament to get in. think of the team tinks could have recruited to the mountain west.

we missed out on a better conf when we turned down the WAC. The MWC would be a great conference but they won't look to add schools for some time. the only way I see a better conference happening is if an entirely new one is formed. consisting of UM, MSU, UI, EWU, WSU and ISU combined with UND, NDSU, USD and SDSU. maybe cal poly and UCD too. All these schools are proven or at least show potential (truly think ISU can/will get better) and decent geographic fits. the dakotas would boost both football and bball. NCU, NAU, PSU, Sac, and SUU are going nowhere anytime soon (apologies to ashamed and other fans of these programs, but this is the reality of the situation). :twocents:

ps. congrats to the griz on another NCAA tourney bid. now lets get that elusive win and shock the world
 
In many ways this game coming up reminds me of the time Montana State met St. John's of the East Coast Conference in the NCAA Tournament back in 1986.

Ferch had 20 and Hampton had 21, reminiscent these days of Jamar & Cherry for the Griz; Domako came off the bench for 16, much like Gregory and Weisner combined during the season. Each team had made 31 FGs but the difference being the Free Throw line: St. John's 21 - 28 while MSU could only do 12 - 14. The bench for St. John's got 29 points to MSU's 20. 16 fouls on St. John's and 23 on MSU. St. John's with 37 rebounds and MSU with 28. This before the trey counted, by the way.

Many of the shots Domako was putting up were from the three point range; if the NCAA had it back then I think it would have been closer than the 83 - 74 Final.
 
citay said:
seeding, the good: #13, we get some respect. we've got one crucial ingredient for tournament success: a strong backcourt. syracuse has to travel cross-country. will played v. new mexico in san jose and he'll have family. should be a good griz contingent on hand. the crowd will be with us.

seeding, the bad: we're missisng the two elements we really need to move on: a 12 seed or better, and a strong post player a la qvale. embarrasing last night the way hutchison gave up post position. you thought weber abused us inside? wait till you see the cuse. big east one or two of top conferences in the country.

moving up to a better conference: in the twenty years or so we've been arguing this, the entire debate has taken place on the football board, within the context of what's best for the football program. meantime, there has never been a question EVER but what a move up wouldn't have have been better for the basketball program. why? we have a BIG RECRUIT in the wings, one highly touted by his sisters, and no question our case would be better if we played better competition in real arenas, not sac state and portland state in ymca gyms. better competition would have aided attendance. plus the mountain west is getting a lot of respect nationally, five teams in if boise made it. our r.p.i. would improve dramatically because of the competition, and we wouldn't have to depend on a one-and-done conference tournament to get in. think of the team tinks could have recruited to the mountain west.

weber state: try as i will to put some venom in our rivalry, respect for them and their program snuffs it every time. i love their arena, the mutual respect that has developed over the years, and the fact they're the one team in the big sky that may have prepared us for the big dance. bolomboy is poised to be the dwight howard of the big sky conference, and kyndahl hill, a 6'7" kid who redshirted this year, is a three-star high school prospect ready to have an impact. martin, wiley and coleman better muscle up, and fast.

last night's game: weber had more balance, we had the two best players on the court. and our best came through when they needed to.

will cherry: four trips to the conference finals in four years, three trips to the big dance, following two trips to the california state championship game in high school. this kid is a gamer. i hope he shows well against syracuse; it would help his professional career.

tinkle's future: his personal bright star is our dark planet. one team scares me: washington state. his home turf, near montana, close to elle at gonzaga, competing against monty and krysko. one negative for washington state: they haven't had good success with big sky coaches, either in football (paul wulff) or basketball (ken bone.) my wish on a bright star: we were in the mountain west, and one of our alums was phil knight (or t. boone pickens.)

late questions: is billy reader still on our radar? and why didn't marko kovacevic stay with us and sit out a year? he couldn't play at utah this year either. (grizrule?)

I think Billy worked himself off of just about everybody's radar. He got caught drinking just prior to Southern Idaho's regional conference tournament about three weeks ago. He was suspended for the tournament. They (CSI) lost and he didn't play again. He has been hurt much of this year, sprained ankle/foot, and when he has played his game has been rather uneven. He definately didn't take his game to the level that people thought he would around here. Early on in the yeare there was a lot of chatter around Twin Falls (where CSI is at) about Reader going to a Pac 12/Big 12 type school. Haven't heard much for a while. THe buzz definately has died down around his name in the past couple months.

Depending on who you ask, this years Southern Idaho team was the weakest in a decade at least and that didn't help him.
 
Well, here's how I see it shaking out...

- They are known for their solid, long 2/3 zone, and even though we shoot the three well, I dont' think we shoot it consistently well enough to "shoot them out" of their zone.

- The only way we keep the game close is by driving to the bucket, and converting free-throws - Even then, it may not be all that close. We tried to do that against Wisconsin last year, and went stone cold from the outside, and couldn't convert when driving to the bucket - the Big Sky is way more whistle happy down low on any kind of contact, and we got our butts handed to us by expecting contact/whistle, then no whistle. That being said, if we get hot from 3 and stay hot, it could be very, very interesting...

- We don't really have much of a low post game - I wouldn't be surprised to see Syracuse feed the ball low all.game.long. and actually stick with it.

- I know many are surprised that we are a 13 seed, but I'm not too surprised. The only conference game we lost was to Weber State, who is probably the better all around team in our conference. The NCAA tends to reward the small-midmajors that have "become regulars" in the tourney, as well as "showing well" in the tourney. Had say some other team in the Big Sky won besides us or Weber, they'd probably be looking at a 15/16 seed or even a play in. In 2005 when we beat Nevada, we got a 12 seed - coming off the heels of the previous year being a 15 or 16(?) seed and losing to Washington by 10/12 points, and during the regular season, we beat Colorado State, Stanford (who was #17 at the time), and I think a team somewhere in the #25-30 range...I don't really remember though.

- I believe they will pull away and end up winning by 15 or so. That being said, I do expect us to keep it "close" until then, but probably the closest we'll end up being to them through the game is between 5 and 8 points. I say that because our recent tourney history we've stayed close, with the exception being Wisconsin (who played way better than us, but also got crazy hot from 3 land):
--- 2005: 88-77 loss to Washington
--- 2006: 87-79 WIN vs Nevada, 69-56 loss vs Boston College
--- 2010: 62-57 loss to New Mexico - note that we were down by 17 at the start of the 2nd half
--- 2012: 73-49 loss to Wisconsin

- like I said, in my heart of hearts I want us to win, but I just don't see it happening.
 
MarinerFan, good post. This game certainly has the potential to end up like last year vs. Wisconsin. It is a major challenge. Though in that Wisc game we were stone cold both inside and outside, while the Badgers didn't seem to miss anything they threw up from anywhere on the court (half court, behind the back, with eyes shut... It's good!!!).

I believe our guys will be less tense this time out and hopefully that will translate into us hitting our shots. I agree with your assessment we need to drive to the bucket, letting them pick up fouls, and us pick up free throws. If we do that (try to drive to the hoop) consistently it may help open up the outside shots. I honestly believe we have that remote chance to win if we can get hot. Since we can't rebound we better be hot! In all I give us a 10% chance to shock the Orangemen. Unlikely but possible. :ugeek:
 
Grizzlies1982 said:
MarinerFan, good post. This game certainly has the potential to end up like last year vs. Wisconsin. It is a major challenge. Though in that Wisc game we were stone cold both inside and outside, while the Badgers didn't seem to miss anything they threw up from anywhere on the court (half court, behind the back, with eyes shut... It's good!!!).

I believe our guys will be less tense this time out and hopefully that will translate into us hitting our shots. I agree with your assessment we need to drive to the bucket, letting them pick up fouls, and us pick up free throws. If we do that (try to drive to the hoop) consistently it may help open up the outside shots. I honestly believe we have that remote chance to win if we can get hot. Since we can't rebound we better be hot! In all I give us a 10% chance to shock the Orangemen. Unlikely but possible. :ugeek:
We are both in agreement. :cool:
 
citay said:
tinkle's future: his personal bright star is our dark planet. one team scares me: washington state. his home turf, near montana, close to elle at gonzaga, competing against monty and krysko. one negative for washington state: they haven't had good success with big sky coaches, either in football (paul wulff) or basketball (ken bone.) my wish on a bright star: we were in the mountain west, and one of our alums was phil knight (or t. boone pickens.)

late questions: is billy reader still on our radar? and why didn't marko kovacevic stay with us and sit out a year? he couldn't play at utah this year either. (grizrule?)

For what it's worth, Tinkle is getting almost no love/support from Wazzu fans. Take a quick gander at their basketball board. Most on there feel that getting rid of Bone for Tinkle would be a lateral move, something almost all of their fans are averse too. Most feel that Bone is doing a fairly decent job of slowly building their program. If Bone was fired, their fans want a replacement with a name/aura, a'la Mike Leach, that would instantly put butts in seats and help overcome the trouble with recruiting to the black hole that is Pullman. That being said, with Bill Moos as the Cougs' AD, I'm sure Tinkle will stay on their radar. My feeling is that every year from now on that we get to keep Tinks is just a bonus. His career trajectory is set for the stratosphere of college basketball. That being said, his love for Missoula is undeniable and, for that reason, he isn't going to just take any job based on money alone. His family has put down roots here and with Tres being only a sophomore, Hellgate could be on its way to become quite the basketball dynasty before his time there is done. For these reason, I truly believe its going to take an offer from an elite conference (Pac-12, Big 10, MWC) for him to seriously consider leaving. We're not going to see a situation where he takes an offer from a school like Old Dominion (Blaine Taylor) just because the money is better. Tinks knows the youth he has here makes us a program that's only going to get better.

As to the Reader/Kovacevic situations, I was told earlier this season that both those ships had sailed. In regards to Reader, the coaching staff was completely flabbergasted by his inability to get his academics in order in spite of repeated attempts to help him. Apparently the kid just can't cut it in the classroom. With Kovacevic, the whole situation left such a sour taste in both the staff and Marco's mouths that they both felt it was better he be allowed to start over elsewhere. His credit situation was sabotaged by his JC coach, who apparently felt slighted that Wayne picked Rupp over him for an assistant position and sent his papers at such a late juncture that it made it impossible for UM to get him cleared by the NCAA.
 

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