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Position Breakdown: O-line

BWahlberg said:
kemajic said:
BWahlberg said:
kemajic said:
You appear to be contradicting yourself.
Past vs future - Germer inherited the line we had and SHOULD only make them better... or he'll replace them with someone who can get the job done.
Germer had them from spring ball to the final game; how much positive "direction" was observable?
What's tough to reflect on is that the final game of NDSU where they were pretty clearly manhandled - however as the season went on the o line as a group got better, pass protection improved, and the running game also got better.

Without combing through each per-game stat book it looks like the better rushing game accomplishments happened in the 2nd half of the season and we all noticed the pressure on the QB from defenses was reduced as the season went on as well.
Prior to the playoffs, we also finished against such weak defenses that any offense could look improved. But the last 6 quarters of the season might have been judgment day whether we had improved or not. Personally, I expected Germer to have a bigger impact.
 
kemajic said:
BWahlberg said:
kemajic said:
BWahlberg said:
Past vs future - Germer inherited the line we had and SHOULD only make them better... or he'll replace them with someone who can get the job done.
Germer had them from spring ball to the final game; how much positive "direction" was observable?
What's tough to reflect on is that the final game of NDSU where they were pretty clearly manhandled - however as the season went on the o line as a group got better, pass protection improved, and the running game also got better.

Without combing through each per-game stat book it looks like the better rushing game accomplishments happened in the 2nd half of the season and we all noticed the pressure on the QB from defenses was reduced as the season went on as well.
Prior to the playoffs, we also finished against such weak defenses that any offense could look improved. But the last 6 quarters of the season might have been judgment day whether we had improved or not. Personally, I expected Germer to have a bigger impact.

A coach can only do so much. It takes buy-in from the team to accomplish what a coach is demanding or preaching. Germer may have gotten his buy-in when the analysis of the SDSU and NDSU games came about.
 
BWahlberg said:
Back at it, and as I'm sure many of you saw, the Griz were up before the sun today getting ready for the season. The O-line will be one of they key pieces to success this upcoming season. It's top-heavy with seniors and will feature 5 guys that have started at least one full season but the rumor is that most jobs are presumed to be wide-open.

Rumor has it once the season concluded that Stitt bluntly placed the most blame on the O-line for the NDSU loss and challenged them to dramatically improve this off-season. Fortunately their coach (Germer) is one of the best we've seen and the kids playing for us right now love the direction he has them going. Spring ball promises to be a battle. What'll be interesting to see unfold is the fact that the experience of this group is with interior linemen and we may be breaking in a brand new tackle.

Here's my guess

Starters:
T - Reese - Jr
G - Todd - Sr
C - Luke - Jr
G - Weyer - Sr
T - Dietrich - Sr

2nd string
T - Thiebes - Sr
G - Kelly - Sr
C - Sprunk - Jr
G - Villanueva - Fr
T - Hart - Fr

Depth - Cody Meyer - Fr, Collin McGillivray - Fr

Redshirt - Thayne Jackson, Dylan Eickmeyer, Conlan Beaver, Brandon Scott, Ashton Torres

Full disclosure, this is a total guess. I could also see Thiebes open camp as the opposite starting tackle and then Weyer at center and Dietrich back at guard. Dietrich was awarded the best lineman from the 2015 season, so Germer might not want to move him.

David Reese - Our only tackle with extensive experience. Presumably will be the LT in the offense, entering his 3rd year starting at tackle. Has gone through ups and downs - was thrust into the job as a freshman. Was demoted early last year in camp but rose to starting again before the season got started. Considering the lack of experience on the edge I think Reese has a big advantage to keep his job and improve into one of the better tackles in the Big Sky. Run blocking is serviceable, edge-protection especially against speed-rush was an issue last year.

McCauley Todd - Todd's junior season was looking promising until a fall camp injury set him back until October I believe. Has a nicer "mean streak" in him that many of us like in an O-lineman. Once inserted into the OL the run-blocking improved a bit on the interior as a whole, but clearly wasn't good enough as Stitt and Germer are looking for a much improved ground game this season. Hopefully Todd can pick up where he left off and play with some more of that tenacity we've seen before from him.

Robert Luke - Went from backing up Weyer for the foreseeable future to starting for the full season. Luke's season didn't start the best. He was criticized on here for bad/errant snaps and missing assignments especially on stunts by the D-line and ILB blitzes. To Luke's credit he seemed to get better each week, the snap issues dwindled for sure. He got some looks at guard in the spring last year and it didn't work very well, which is why I'm projecting him still at center.

Ben Weyer - I'm honestly torn on him at guard vs at center. If I were to guess I'd say Ben's the leader of the upper-classmen on the O-line, he's also the most versatile, and maybe the best blocker. His smarts, leadership, and skills will be gladly welcomed back to the fold. But where? He played a season at guard and another at center. He can effectively do both, where it seems Luke is best at center. So where will he land?

Devon Dietrich - Another versatile player and last year's best lineman I'm curious if Dietrich will get another shot at his 2014 role as RT instead of RG. If he can successfully make the transition then that could help solve the log jam in the middle of the line. He's lighter than the other interior OL where he could be better suited at tackle, but he wasn't exactly a stand-out guy in 2014 in the role, and Germer promptly moved him back inside - to much better success. If Dietrich stays at guard that's going to push out one of Todd, Luke, and Weyer for a starting job.

Jackson Thiebes - As mentioned earlier, Thiebes could very easily be the guy we see at RT, especially if Germer doesn't move Dietrich to tackle. Thiebes brings two years of spot-duty, special teams, and backup duty to the group. He's come quite a ways from being a walk-on TE. He lost the starting tackle job to Reese last season, could he be ready in his senior year to grab that spot? He'll need to show some improvement in pass blocking to do so.

Max Kelly - Yet another guy with a long list of experience, started 3 or 4 games last years at guard. Kelly could be the #1 backup at both RG and LG and don't totally rule him out to start. He showed some issues with blocking assignments in the passing game, will need to demonstrate that's a thing of the past.

Cooper Sprunk - Besides being an expert movie critic on twitter Cooper has had an interesting journey himself. Came in as a TE and then converted to center under the new offense. I think it was the NAU game where coach Germer was so frustrated with Luke's bad snaps that he put Sprunk in at center for the rest of the game. Sprunk's snaps were painfully slow, however his overall blocking was fairly good. Luke was inserted back in the very next week and that benching seemed to be a good reality check for him. I'll be interested to see where Sprunk is given an opportunity at. If Weyer and Luke start then Cooper could be the next center up, if he's improved his shotgun snaps. He could also prove to be a fairly serviceable guard.

Angel Villanueva - As posted by others on here the word is Angel really got after it during his red shirt year. He's in great shape, has excellent strength, and is ready to compete for the job. Regardless of 2nd or 1st string we're going to need him this season for sure. He was one of the big prized recruits last year and has the potential to really rise fast with this group. I'm putting him as a backup for now just due to the experience ahead of him, but as Germer has shown before, if Angel shows he's one of the two best guards on the team - you can bet your ass he'll be starting.

Dallas Hart - Hart played tackle in high school and started for 3 years. He's listed at 320 so I'm unsure if they're planning to keep him at OT or move him inside. I took a bit of a guess that based on his size he'll be more ready to make an impact on the 2016 line than McGillivray and Meyer.

Collin McGillivray - Listed at 278 pounds, coming off his redshirt year. If Hart is planned to be an interior lineman then expect Collin to be right in the mix for backup/depth at tackle. And with a possible job at RT open, he could compete for it. He's got the size at 6-7, we'll have to see how his red shirt season prepared him for the job. Could be a dark-horse guy that could rise in the ranks quickly.

Cody Meyer - Cody played center in high school and could be the center of the future. However much like Ben Weyer found, he may get some early looks at guard before getting a shot at starting center. We'll have to see where he's placed when spring camp opens. Listed online at 265 pounds, not sure if that's an up to date weight yet though.

And like other positions I expect that all of our incoming linemen that arrive in the fall will red shirt. If any could be ready it might be Brandon Scott who already has the footwork and body size for the job. It's a big adjustment though to rise that fast though.

------

Lots of moving pieces with this O-line and of course health will be an issue to watch again. Early word back is that the guys have been adding some good weight and are ready to compete. This is easily the one position I think I have the least grasp on what will actually happen with the depth.

Another thing to notice is that this group has 5 seniors and 3 juniors - so you can see why the 2015 class had 4 recruits and now the 2016 class has 5 - this group will need a full re-load very soon!

I'm hearing Weyer will return to center and Luke will slide out to guard. I'm sure all this contingent on how spring camp plays out. I also heard the same thing about Villanueva. He actually lost about 10 lbs and is moving much better because of it. I expect we will see more improvement in OL play this fall and in a couple years have to most dominant OL in the country.
 
I think Weyer has All-American potential at center. I think losing him last year was probably the most damaging injury of the year. I just think having a veteran center on an inexperienced line would have really helped. I don't see him being nearly effective at G. I also see Dietrich as a better G than T. Saying that, I hope someone steps up to take the RT spot, but understand you have to get the best collective unit out there.

Good write up.
 
Stitt and coaches knew the need at OL and went on the recruiting trail and did a great job. No doubt, we will see solid improvement at OL.
 
Got to believe you'll see some scheme changes that will impact the line play & running game. Some of the best runs of the season were outside the tackles, designed to go there or "bounced". The "action" appeared to be zone read, netting mixed results - for a variety of reasons. Stitt is on record as feeling things have to change - evolve before teams get to the point of catching on. To the untrained eye, it may not have looked like he was changing things up, but he was. The reality is three changes of QB over the course of the season set them back each time. No way to build on or change much effectively, when you're back to square one so frequently. Unless the plug & play parts in this years edition of the O-Line are significantly better, and we'll see about that, things have to change.

He's got to, the players that bailed them out - Roberts, Henderson, Jones et.al., aren't taking the field @ WaGriz in the colors again. No offense intended to the new crew, but that's a tough act to follow, and not be able to run the ball & protect the QB.
 
Sam A. Blitz said:
I think Weyer has All-American potential at center. I think losing him last year was probably the most damaging injury of the year. I just think having a veteran center on an inexperienced line would have really helped. I don't see him being nearly effective at G. I also see Dietrich as a better G than T. Saying that, I hope someone steps up to take the RT spot, but understand you have to get the best collective unit out there.

Good write up.


Yeah I think you're right, the loss of Weyer seemed like a bit of a blow to the confidence and cohesiveness of the O line and the offense for a bit. Credit Luke for coming in, not expecting to start, and then recovering after a rough first few games.

As for Dietrich you could be right as well. If he was the best lineman we had last year at guard... why put him in a spot that he's not going to be as good at?

That would then adjust the OL to go:

C: Weyer
G: Todd
G: Dietrich
T: Reese
T: Thiebes/Hart/McGillivray

Presumably that puts Luke into a backup role - unless they give him a look to compete with Todd at guard? He got a chance at guard last spring and that didn't go too well... that was a year ago though. I personally like Todd at guard, the O-line got better when he got in there last year. We'll have to see!

The other interesting wrinkle for the spring will be the availability of Weyer, who I would assume is still recovering from the prior knee injury which was August - so we're just 6 months removed from it.
 
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