Opening Game

[WA Griz]

I really don't understand those of you who would like the Griz to continue to play DII and NAIA games....I just don't get it. Do you just want some padding for the record? I'd rather see us play Cal Poly or NDSU or at least another school in our division. Challenge them as they would want to be challenged. They have earned the right to play at this level...why drop them down? And on the complete other side of it....How big of a dumba$$ are you when you lose to one of these teams??? I don't want to watch either way.

Ditto. I want to watch UM play the Saints about as much as I want to see the Griz play the winner of the Knights of Columbus Badlands Bowl.
Montana should have a full-slate of FCS teams. If they believe in FCS, they should support it and not leave it at the altar whenever IA comes knocking or there's a cupcake to be had.

 

[AZGrizFan]

So you start a rumor about UM playing USC, then tell your close frield Jim O'Day, then use his quote about it in the paper as proof that it's true? :shocked: :shocked:

Your posts reminds me of the other Az who is so popular on here. :dance:

Go read this thread.

http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/viewtopic.php?t=19611

And learn how to take a joke. I just think it's funny you don't see the irony in your circular argument.

Az,

I can take a joke, your post is one. :laugh: are you sure you arent sybil?

NOW you've got it. My post was a joke. I KNEW you'd figure it out.

Dismissed.

 

[PSUVikings]

man.......I asked a simple question and this thread goes on for 5 pages :laugh:

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

I really don't understand those of you who would like the Griz to continue to play DII and NAIA games....I just don't get it. Do you just want some padding for the record? I'd rather see us play Cal Poly or NDSU or at least another school in our division. Challenge them as they would want to be challenged. They have earned the right to play at this level...why drop them down? And on the complete other side of it....How big of a dumba$$ are you when you lose to one of these teams??? I don't want to watch either way.

Ditto. I want to watch UM play the Saints about as much as I want to see the Griz play the winner of the Knights of Columbus Badlands Bowl.
Montana should have a full-slate of FCS teams. If they believe in FCS, they should support it and not leave it at the altar whenever IA comes knocking or there's a cupcake to be had.

For the record this is my last post on this topic…:deadhorse:

Just to clarify my point – I too think it would be better for UM to play an all D-I non-conference schedule. Preferably this would include a money game against a I-A school followed by home-and-home series games against quality I-AA schools. One from a I-AA school in West and one from a I-AA school in the East would be ideal.

The reality of the situation though is that the money games don't usually become available prior to the schedules being finalized. To ensure we have a full slate of games and as many home games as possible, lower-division teams are scheduled (like D-II CWU which was replaced with Iowa).

The other reality is that UM is not willing to play non-conference away games against other I-AA teams. I-AA schools like Hofstra have been burned in the past. So getting quality I-AA teams to come to Missoula is very difficult and only gets more difficult when UM doesn’t uphold it’s end of the home-and-home series as it did again this year with SDSU.

It’s because of these realities that it’s become necessary for UM to schedule lower-division teams. Since UM is already scheduling games against lower-division teams I proposed scheduling Carroll College. Again, the Saints are better than the D-II teams that UM has recently scheduled, which will make for a better game. The better game, combined with the buzz that would surround a game with so many Montana kids playing in it would make a Griz-Saints game far more likely to sellout the WaGriz than a game against a D-II Fort Lewis that most folks have never heard of before.

So that's in for me on this topic. Now let's get back to realistic discussions about how UM is going to play USC. :twocents:

 

[TDMT]

Let's just go to Cal Poly and return the favor.

 

[ronbo]

Just to clarify my point – I too think it would be better for UM to play an all D-I non-conference schedule. Preferably this would include a money game against a I-A school followed by home-and-home series games against quality I-AA schools. One from a I-AA school in West and one from a I-AA school in the East would be ideal.

OK let's think about this idea. We have 4 away conference games every year. You want 2 home and homes, preferably one home game and one away each year. Then let's have an away I-A game every year.

You have just doomed the griz to 5 home games and 6 away every year and a loss of $350K for every year we only have 5 home games. Which you would like permanently.

Face it folks. Getting Northern Colorado into the Big Sky IS the home and home with the I-AA. We can't afford any more. I warned everyone when it happened that it would really dumb us down and it is happening.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Just to clarify my point – I too think it would be better for UM to play an all D-I non-conference schedule. Preferably this would include a money game against a I-A school followed by home-and-home series games against quality I-AA schools. One from a I-AA school in West and one from a I-AA school in the East would be ideal.

OK let's think about this idea. We have 4 away conference games every year. You want 2 home and homes, preferably one home game and one away each year. Then let's have an away I-A game every year.

You have just doomed the griz to 5 home games and 6 away every year and a loss of $350K for every year we only have 5 home games. Which you would like permanently.

Face it folks. Getting Northern Colorado into the Big Sky IS the home and home with the I-AA. We can't afford any more. I warned everyone when it happened that it would really dumb us down and it is happening.

Isn't that "$350K" loss the REASON we play the I-A money game?

 

[ronbo]

I'm noticing the guys that want 5 home games are out of staters. No skin off your backs. Remember the Griz are better at home. If we go to 5 home, 6 away from now on we'll have a hard time going 9-2. We'll probably be 8-3 or 7-4 most years. You like that?

 

[AZGrizFan]

I'm noticing the guys that want 5 home games are out of staters. No skin off your backs. Remember the Griz are better at home. If we go to 5 home, 6 away from now on we'll have a hard time going 9-2. We'll probably be 8-3 or 7-4 most years. You like that?

How do we go from 10-1 to 7-4 with ONE EXTRA ROAD GAME? The reason we're "better at home" is because that extra home game is against the Little Sisters of the Poor and Blind School for the Deaf.

Is that new math they're teaching in Montana now?

And, FYI Ronbo, it has nothing to do with me being an "out of stater"...and everything to do with honoring commitments made to other FCS schools. We're burning bridges faster than we can build 'em. :twocents: :twocents: :twocents:

EDIT: And, for the record, if I have to choose between Fort Lewis @ home, or Cal Poly or SDSU or NDSU or some other quality FCS team ON THE ROAD, I choose the latter all day long. And I don't care how much money they make on the deal.

 

[ronbo]

Most years we are NOT 10-1, we are 8-3 or 9-2. A 10-1 year is very rare.

You add a game at Cal Poly away and we very likely go 8-3 with just one home playoff game or 7-4 and MISS the playoffs.

You want to miss the playoffs for a game at Cal Poly?????

 

[ronbo]

If you are in a Major Conference the Committee cares less who you play non Conference. Look at Delaware, they play cupcakes in non Conference. The Committee looks #1 at record for seeding. If you are 10-1 or 11-0 and you are in the Big Sky you will get a top 2 seed. And it doesn't matter who you played in non Coference because you proved yourself in your Conference play. Then you get to play the Cal Poly's, McNeese State's, Georgia Southern's, and James Madison's in the playoffs. There is zero need to play them sooner.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Most years we are NOT 10-1, we are 8-3 or 9-2. A 10-1 year is very rare.

You add a game at Cal Poly away and we very likely go 8-3 with just one home playoff game or 7-4 and MISS the playoffs.

You want to miss the playoffs for a game at Cal Poly?????

Well, lets see how our record stacks up this decade:

2000 ---- 10-1 regular season, the only loss a HOME loss to Hofstra
2001 ---- 10-1 regular season, the only loss a ROAD loss to Hawaii
2002 ---- 9-2 regular season, ROAD loss to EWU, HOME loss to MSU
2003 ---- 8-3 regular season, HOME loss to NDSU (yeah, how'd THAT one work out?) and road losses to ISU and MSU
2004 ---- 9-2 regular season, 2 ROAD losses to Sam Houston and Portland State
2005 ---- 8-3 regular season, 2 ROAD losses to Oregon and MSU, and a HOME loss to EWU.
2006 --- 10-1 regular season, 1 ROAD loss to Iowa

We're 10-1 three times, 9-2 twice and 8-3 twice. If we eliminate the I-A games, we've lost a total of 10 games in the regular season in 7 years. If you eliminate CONFERENCE games (which we have no choice in) we're got 2 HOME losses OOC (Hofstra and NDSU) and 1 ROAD loss (Sam Houston). We're 10-1 more often than not, lately---and yet have more HOME losses than ROAD losses OOC in this decade.

You automatically assume we are going to lose the OOC road game. I don't. I believe the Griz will beat who is put in front of them. :thumb:

Can you honestly, with a straight face, say that beating Fort Lewis 55-0 in the opening game in 2005 prepared us to play Oregon the next week?

Not me. :twocents: :twocents: :twocents:

 

[WA Griz]

I'm noticing the guys that want 5 home games are out of staters. No skin off your backs. Remember the Griz are better at home. If we go to 5 home, 6 away from now on we'll have a hard time going 9-2. We'll probably be 8-3 or 7-4 most years. You like that?

Don't be a dope. I haven't missed a Griz home game in at least 15 years. Not many road games either.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

So we’re scheduling home games because we need the money and we don’t want to lose games? Sounds like we’re buying our way into the playoffs, and we’re buying ourselves home playoff games. Sure, conference road games are always brutal, but we’re coming across like prima donnas.

 

['68griz]

AWF, I couldn't agree more!!

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

I'm noticing the guys that want 5 home games are out of staters. No skin off your backs. Remember the Griz are better at home. If we go to 5 home, 6 away from now on we'll have a hard time going 9-2. We'll probably be 8-3 or 7-4 most years. You like that?

What in the hell does where I live have to do with anything? Obviously you take it for granted, but we can't all live in Missoula and we can't all attend every home game. I can't speak for anyone else, but as for me I know it doesn't make me any less of a fan than you.

In the six years since I graduated from UM I've either listened to or watched every game the Griz played. I even paid $50 to listen to the 2004 NC game on my cell phone because we were driving home for Christmas vacation that night. And the $50 was just to access the game, I still had to pay for 3 hours of roaming charges...

It sounds like you're entire argument in favor of an additional home game against a lower quality opponent is because UM taking on another team on the road means one less home game for you. Rather than focus on how it will impact me personally, I actually think it would be better for the team and the program to take on higher quality opponents on the road.

Why? Because playing D-II teams (or an NAIA team) will not help the Griz to find their weaknesses as a team while they still have the rest of the season to do something about it before the playoffs. What's happened in recent years is that UM has not been significantly challenged in the non-conference season (or in the conference season for that matter) and they go into the playoffs unaware of a particular weaknesses. They run into a James Madison or a UMass and then we all bitch and moan about what could have been.

The million dollar deficit is paid off as of June 30, so we should get back to playing games that help the team and not just the bottom line.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Most years we are NOT 10-1, we are 8-3 or 9-2. A 10-1 year is very rare.

You add a game at Cal Poly away and we very likely go 8-3 with just one home playoff game or 7-4 and MISS the playoffs.

You want to miss the playoffs for a game at Cal Poly?????

So your admitting we are not as good as you think?

Great teams win on the road and at home.

 

[argh!!]

I'm all for a good non-conference schedule, and I prefer I-AA non-conference games, but I don't think playing a D-II team in the early part of the season has any affect on how good UM will be during the playoffs. I certainly don't think quality of the non-conference schedule has any impact on whether UM will beat a JMU and UMass late in the playoffs. By the time of the semifinals, UM will have played at least 10 more games. Those 10 games, the big conference games, injuries, and whether UM has gotten on a roll, are much more important than whether UM opened the season against a Fort Lewis. Under Mining's view, and with games against Iowa, SDS and Cal Poly this past season, shouldn't the Griz have beaten UMass?

the "big conference games?" you mean like UM versus weebs in front of 580 in ogden, or versus n. colorado in front of 17 plus the waterboy?

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

I'm all for a good non-conference schedule, and I prefer I-AA non-conference games, but I don't think playing a D-II team in the early part of the season has any affect on how good UM will be during the playoffs. I certainly don't think quality of the non-conference schedule has any impact on whether UM will beat a JMU and UMass late in the playoffs. By the time of the semifinals, UM will have played at least 10 more games. Those 10 games, the big conference games, injuries, and whether UM has gotten on a roll, are much more important than whether UM opened the season against a Fort Lewis. Under Mining's view, and with games against Iowa, SDS and Cal Poly this past season, shouldn't the Griz have beaten UMass?

Why are you trying to over simplify what I said? I'm not saying that if you schedule challenging teams in the non-conference season that you're guaranteed a championship. I am saying that our teams are more likely to win a championship if they do.

I think the bigger point people are getting at is that the non-conference games are not being scheduled to benefit the football program; they are being scheduled to benefit the Athletic Department as it tries to pay off the million dollar deficit.

The Iowa and Oregon games didn't help the players or the perception of the program as I-AA power. Our guys were beat up in those games and it took a toll on them physically. Last year it took Swogger a bye week and a game in street clothes to heal up from the Iowa game. Sure UM got paid, but did it help the program to have the #1 QB out of action for two weeks? Again, these are examples of games helping the Athletic Dept. more than the FB program.

I'd like to see games against I-A opponent like Idaho, Nevada, or San Jose State and games against top 10 I-AA teams like NDSU, UC Davis, or Cal-Poly. Games against these kinds of teams would push our guys, not embarrass our guys. These games won’t guarantee UM is going to beat an '04 JMU or an '06 UMass, but these games will guarantee that our guys are better prepared when they take the field after Thanksgiving Day. This is especially true if we ever have to play on the road in the playoffs.

As for having 10 more games to play, that's the whole point. If UM plays mid-major I-A teams or ranked I-AA teams early or even half way through the season players AND coaches have time to scheme and improve on any deficiencies that were exposed by the better competition. There is no chance for this if a deficiency is exposed in a playoff game.

I still remember the sick feeling in my stomach in the '04 NC game when I realized we could not stop JMU's running game. Wouldn't it have been nice if they had faced a team like JMU in the regular season and had a scheme in place to address that deficiency? On the flip side, remember the game at Sam Houston in '04? The Griz addressed those areas over the rest of the regular season and come playoff time the outcome of that semi-final game under the lights was different than in the non-conference game.

Again, you can over simplify what I'm saying and then dismiss it all you want, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that it helps our program to repeatedly buyout road games against quality I-AA opponents and replace them with home games against teams like Fort Lewis.

 

[Seattle Griz Fan]

Mining, I agree with you on the Oregon and Iowa games. I also agree that those games were largely for the athletic dep't. and Main Hall, but they also resulted in there being funds for a football strength coach and additional salary and incentives for coaches.

I assume you are aware that coaches generally like an early easy game, like a D-II game. Read did and Hauck also does. I assume they believe it helps their preparation for the season.

I don't agree with your point about tough pre-season I-AA games being necessary to expose weaknesses. Generally, weaknesses can be determined in the other games, and the coaches are usually aware of them. Some weaknesses, like the JMU game, can't necessarily be overcome anyway. Having a healthy Jonny Varona in that game might have been the best solution. As you may recall, he was not able to play. Also, I think that, sometimes, some fans think particular games show a team weakness, when in fact the dynamics of the game just happened to go a particular way and the perceived weakness may not be there.

I didn't mean to mischacterize what you said initiailly. I was trying to address your weakness point, which I now have done in the above para.

no, you were trying to "correct" him