NIT vs. NCAA Tourney

[weberwildcat]

this is a good year for the big sky. we are going to have 3 20 win teams for the first time since 1996.

i think if we could have 3 postseason teams. between UNC, WSU, UM I could see all 3 going but if we got a third it would be the CBI.

NIT:
We only have 1 NIT win in the last 20 yrs as someone said but out of how many games???
The Big Sky has played in only 6 NIT 1st Rd games since 1990.

NCAA
Since 1990, 20 NCAA 1st Rd Games and 3 1st Rd wins, WSU 1995, 1999, UM, 2006

CBI
We have never had a team compete in this tourney.

 

[BelierPeaux]

i think you are kind of right. for most teams you have to win a couple games for people to really notice. however, that's where playin' in the big sky actually helps. no one expects a team from our conference to win, so when we do it IS a big deal. you still hear people talking about weber beating unc...and not just around these parts! you really think that if the griz were to beat a team like 'nova, georgetown, or pitt that it wouldn't be a huge story? as far as your basketball/football analogy; i think it couldn't be farther away from the truth. every sports fan in the nation knows about march madness. it's practically a sports holiday! that first thursday-friday of the tourney is just silly. you're kidding yourself if you think that many people care about 1AA football. they just don't. we care cause that's where our teams play. but i'd be willing to bet that far more people around the country know that alabama was national champs, and not many recall that villanova is also national champs. i'm not taking anything away from the griz. you're a great program/ but you're a great program in the small-time. if the griz...or anyone in the big sky were to win a game or two in the dance it would be on the same stage as duke, kentucky, syracuse, kansas, etc. and it would be remembered. both sports are great, but it's crazy to think that playing football at a lower level is better than basketball at the highest college level just because it's harder to win at the harder level. :shock:

Try getting out a little more, Peauxrouge. :clap: :thumb: :thumb:

Who's talking about those games? You and a few others on school message boards? Not sure what you thought you proved there by quoting a cat fan? Just because someone generalizes that people are talking about it doesn't mean they are. I'm not taking those wins away from Weber, it's cool when it happens, but I doubt there are many people outside of Weber and Montana forums still talking about Weber's wins 10 and 15 years ago or Montana's even a few years ago. You make it sound like if you turn the TV to any sports channel you are five minutes away from someone talking about Weber's ancient wins in the tourney. I'm not saying those wins aren't a big deal the moment they happen, everyone likes to see a David slaying a Goliath, but outside of a small, local fanbase not many remember who knocked out a higher ranked team and then got sent packing the next game. I love watching the NCAA Tourney every year, but I would be hard-pressed to name any one team that won an upset in the first round and then lost out last year. Again, George Mason, Gonzaga, those are teams that are going to be talked about for some time not the one-hit wonders like MT and Weber. Trust me, I wish it was not the case, but it is.

 

[WILDCATFAN]

Talked about all the time? no, but its well known around the country and there has been a comercial the last 3 years aired during March Madness about Weber State's win over UNC, but only during March madness. And I bet most college fans can remember the year Weber beat UNC, before they would remember the last time Montana won a FCS Championship.

Nobody really talkes about it much anymore, but the one thing that LillardMVP was right about, was the fact that people on the national stage would notice Montana's name first if they made the dance than if they made the FCS championship, because more people around the nation watch or even pay attention to the NCAA tourney more than the FCS playoffs, the only people who are going to watch an FCS playoff game are the fans of the teams playing and other FCS fans, but everyone watches the Big Dance, unless you dont like college hoops. So yeah, Big Sky basketball is considered a joke to most other fans from bigger schools, but guess what so is Big Sky Football, Big Sky football is only big to us, because we are fans of teams in the FCS and Big SKy, outside of Montana nobody cares trust me, down here in Utah, nobody cares about Weber State football because its not FBS, even our own media wont talk about us, they never even said anything about Weber making the playoffs for the 2nd straight year, which has never happened before, I had a friend who was a Utah fan who had never even heard of the University of Montana until I invited him to a Weber b-ball game. On the subject of Big Sky hoops, right now instead of congradulating Weber and its recent success at Basketball, the only thing our local media wants to talk about is when Randy Rahe will leave Weber for a Bigger and Better program. Its insulting considering the history of Weber State. What they should be saying is Why would Randy want to leave Weber, good program, great arena, good loyal fanbase, he has everything he could ever want at Weber, and apparently he knows that cause he wants to stay at Weber. Which I hope he does.

On the subject of NCAA vs NIT, A trip to the Big Dance would be better than a trip to the NIT for anyone, it tells your recruits that we are good enough to get there, and the NIT says we arent good enough for the Dance, so we must settle for 2nd best. A future player would rather make the dance than make the NIT.

 

[BelierPeaux]

Talked about all the time? no, but its well known around the country and there has been a comercial the last 3 years aired during March Madness about Weber State's win over UNC, but only during March madness. And I bet most college fans can remember the year Weber beat UNC, before they would remember the last time Montana won a FCS Championship.

Nobody really talkes about it much anymore, but the one thing that LillardMVP was right about, was the fact that people on the national stage would notice Montana's name first if they made the dance than if they made the FCS championship, because more people around the nation watch or even pay attention to the NCAA tourney more than the FCS playoffs, the only people who are going to watch an FCS playoff game are the fans of the teams playing and other FCS fans, but everyone watches the Big Dance, unless you dont like college hoops. So yeah, Big Sky basketball is considered a joke to most other fans from bigger schools, but guess what so is Big Sky Football, Big Sky football is only big to us, because we are fans of teams in the FCS and Big SKy, outside of Montana nobody cares trust me, down here in Utah, nobody cares about Weber State football because its not FBS, even our own media wont talk about us, they never even said anything about Weber making the playoffs for the 2nd straight year, which has never happened before, I had a friend who was a Utah fan who had never even heard of the University of Montana until I invited him to a Weber b-ball game. On the subject of Big Sky hoops, right now instead of congradulating Weber and its recent success at Basketball, the only thing our local media wants to talk about is when Randy Rahe will leave Weber for a Bigger and Better program. Its insulting considering the history of Weber State. What they should be saying is Why would Randy want to leave Weber, good program, great arena, good loyal fanbase, he has everything he could ever want at Weber, and apparently he knows that cause he wants to stay at Weber. Which I hope he does.

On the subject of NCAA vs NIT, A trip to the Big Dance would be better than a trip to the NIT for anyone, it tells your recruits that we are good enough to get there, and the NIT says we arent good enough for the Dance, so we must settle for 2nd best. A future player would rather make the dance than make the NIT.

I agree with you 100%. Most people would notice if MT made the dance than anything in the FCS. But I didn't say otherwise.

 

[ilovethecats]

first off, i don't know what me being a cat fan has anything to do with my opinions. that's just stupid to say. especially when i make it a point to be respectful over here. and i'm a "cat fan" who happens to know a good amount of basketball. between playing in highschool, walking on to the cats, and then coaching, i think i bring some credibility to basketball discussions. i never said that people talk about the weber wins all the time. my point was it is still talked about. i travel all over the country watching hoops and working camps. there have been several times when i mention that my loyalties lie in the big sky conference, and people always ask about weber. winning games on a national stage against the big boys goes a long way. i'm not taking anything away from 1AA football. but while defending big sky hoops, i simply pointed out that i think people care way more about march madness...even teams who barely get in...then they do about 1AA football champs. it doesn't make it better, it was just an observation. but what do i know? after all, i am a cat fan. :roll:

 

[DoubleNicks]

First off, comparing the hype from the WSU upset to a Montana FCS championship isn't really comparing apples to apples. The WSU-UNC upset didn't happen in any sort of championship game and it was a big deal because it was an upset. A better analogy would be comparing the hype resulting from a mid-major or smaller university (FCS) beating a big name or traditionally dominant program in each sport. So, for example did the WSU upset compare to App State beating Michigan? That's kind of an opinion-based answer but App State did get the cover of SI, a lengthy article, numerous hours of discussion on ESPN, Youtube vids, and I can bet you no Ohio State fan will ever forget it for as long as he or she lives.

Secondly, what do you guys think the chances of the BSC getting the top three teams to postseason tourneys? If the three teams win out (WSU has two left, UNC + UM have one each left), that would leave UNC (24-6), and both WSU and UM (20-8) at the end of the regular season. Now, theoretically, say UM wins the BSC auto-bid to the NCAAs. That would mean WSU would for certain be invited to the NIT, having been the BSC regular season champ. Wouldn't UNC merit an invite to the NIT, as well, possessing a 3 game lead in the overall record category over WSU and having a very similar SOS/RPI? I just skimmed this thread, so sorry if this has already been answered but does anyone know if the BSC has sent three mens teams to postseason play before? I thought it happened a couple years back with the ladies...maybe ISU went to NCAAs and PSU and UM played in the WNIT (I remember PSU got to play Portland in Portland and LG played Wyoming or Utah that year)?

 

[WILDCATFAN]

First off, comparing the hype from the WSU upset to a Montana FCS championship isn't really comparing apples to apples. The WSU-UNC upset didn't happen in any sort of championship game and it was a big deal because it was an upset. A better analogy would be comparing the hype resulting from a mid-major or smaller university (FCS) beating a big name or traditionally dominant program in each sport. So, for example did the WSU upset compare to App State beating Michigan? That's kind of an opinion-based answer but App State did get the cover of SI, a lengthy article, numerous hours of discussion on ESPN, Youtube vids, and I can bet you no Ohio State fan will ever forget it for as long as he or she lives.

Secondly, what do you guys think the chances of the BSC getting the top three teams to postseason tourneys? If the three teams win out (WSU has two left, UNC + UM have one each left), that would leave UNC (24-6), and both WSU and UM (20-8) at the end of the regular season. Now, theoretically, say UM wins the BSC auto-bid to the NCAAs. That would mean WSU would for certain be invited to the NIT, having been the BSC regular season champ. Wouldn't UNC merit an invite to the NIT, as well, possessing a 3 game lead in the overall record category over WSU and having a very similar SOS/RPI? I just skimmed this thread, so sorry if this has already been answered but does anyone know if the BSC has sent three mens teams to postseason play before? I thought it happened a couple years back with the ladies...maybe ISU went to NCAAs and PSU and UM played in the WNIT (I remember PSU got to play Portland in Portland and LG played Wyoming or Utah that year)?

I think 3 teams from the Big Sky could definitely make it to a post season tourney, If Weber wins the BSC tourney (which I really hope happens) and gets the automatic berth to the Dance, I honestly think both Montana and UNC have a legit chance at both making the NIT, Its a long shot, but both of them teams will have over 20 wins, with solid victories over some good sized schools from the WAC Mtn West and the Pac 10. I think its a possibility, the Big Sky is a pretty tough league this year, it could happen.

 

[griz8791]

It's pretty damn sad to be arguing about whether the average American sports fan cares less about FCS football or a Big Sky basketball team getting out of the first round once every 9 years (or whatever it is).

I think most Americans care about Cinderalla teams from conferences like ours as long as they are still playing, and after that the memory kind of fades. Seeing one of these no-name teams take out a perennial power is the ONLY reason I pay any attention to the opening rounds of the tournament. Typically the Cinderellas are gone after the Sweet 16 and that's when I stop paying attention. And I'm not a serious enough fan to be able to tell you who last year's Cinderella story was or the year before that.

I do remember Weber's big run several years ago. That was awesome. But I remember it because they're in our conference. No disrespect intended, but I doubt that very much that the average basketball fan remembers Weber's run that year. And no, I am not sitting here delusionally thinking the average football fan gives a rip about the FCS, either.

 

[weberwildcat]

Im not here to argue but I do have one observation in that when ever anyone has heard of Weber St outside of Utah or the Big Sky, although its rare that someone knows of WSU, its always because of the NCAA 1st Rd upsets. Other than that no one has even heard of the school.

It also doesn't help that we don't have a state's name in our school name. Oh wait, Weber isn't a state? LOL

 

[grizpack]

That's funny. I don't care who you are.

 

[ilovethecats]

It's pretty damn sad to be arguing about whether the average American sports fan cares less about FCS football or a Big Sky basketball team getting out of the first round once every 9 years (or whatever it is).

I think most Americans care about Cinderalla teams from conferences like ours as long as they are still playing, and after that the memory kind of fades. Seeing one of these no-name teams take out a perennial power is the ONLY reason I pay any attention to the opening rounds of the tournament. Typically the Cinderellas are gone after the Sweet 16 and that's when I stop paying attention. And I'm not a serious enough fan to be able to tell you who last year's Cinderella story was or the year before that.

I do remember Weber's big run several years ago. That was awesome. But I remember it because they're in our conference. No disrespect intended, but I doubt that very much that the average basketball fan remembers Weber's run that year. And no, I am not sitting here delusionally thinking the average football fan gives a rip about the FCS, either.

ya that was kinds my bad getting this thread off track. i really wasn't tryin' to turn it into a basketball vs football thread. but the comment was made that this is why the big sky sucks in basketball compared to football. i simply pointed out that i didn't think it was a fair comparison between hoops playing at the highest level, and football playing in a subdivision. i like them both, but to bash basketball for not having the same success of football isn't fair. i simply suggested that the big dance in hoops will always be a bigger draw nationally than the 1AA football playoffs. doesn't make one better than the other...but it certainly makes comparing the 2 apples to oranges. again my apologies for the derailment.

 

[WILDCATFAN]

Im not here to argue but I do have one observation in that when ever anyone has heard of Weber St outside of Utah or the Big Sky, although its rare that someone knows of WSU, its always because of the NCAA 1st Rd upsets. Other than that no one has even heard of the school.

It also doesn't help that we don't have a state's name in our school name. Oh wait, Weber isn't a state? LOL

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The ironic thing is Weber should have won that game.