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Mariners - Yankees

The Fat Phillie on BaseballTonight made a good point about this. In most cases, a free agent signing or trade sends a starting pitcher to the pen to bolster that. With all the injuries to the starting staff, the Yankees do not have that luxury. While I don't necessarily agree with Kruk's assessment of Clemens as a 5- or 6-inning pitcher at best, I do agree that the pen will be closing most if not all of his games, and shouldering a large portion of the load while doing so. The pen will also be taxed by the inferior starting pitchers that the Yankees are suffering through during the injury spell. The pen will likely be dead or nearly so come August. If that happens, you can pretty much kiss the post-season goodbye unless the injured pitchers can all of a sudden go nine and ten innings a night. While I would be confident of that ten or fifteen years ago, with the "modern" Captain Hook mentality that just about EVERY major league manager shows on a daily basis, I just can't believe that Pettit et al will be able to do that.

The Yankees are toast, and Clemens isn't going to reverse that.
 
Perhaps, but I'd be perfectly happy if Clemens only goes 6 innings per start anyway. Both Mussina and Wang won their last games and Pettitte will more than likely, hopefully, regain his control.

As for the Bullpen, there's still a pretty good group of RHP Scott Proctor, LHP Sean Henn @ 2.87 ERA, RHP Brian Bruney @ 2.40 ERA, LHP Mike Meyers as shown that he can go more than an inning at a time @ 2.20 ERA with RHP Kyle Farnsworth & RHP Luis Vizcaino as well.
This may mean that LHP Kei Igawa may regain his stuff coming out of the 'pen as well. Plus there's still RHP Darrell Rasner and RHP Chris Britton @ 0.00 ERA. That's a possibility of nine pitchers right there, plus LHP Chase Wright and RHP Colter Bean, if they can work out their mechanics back in the minors. So I'am not worried; for now.
 
WGF,

Winning this early means diddley if it's done by burning out the pen on a nightly basis. I don't care what the pen's ERA is right now. If it's run into the ground a la Bruce Bochy (which is how it looks it's going to happen given the injury bug on the starting staff), that ERA is going to balloon later in the season due to fatigue. Once that happens, the Yanks are going to have to hope that all of a sudden, the starters will be able to get CGs night in and night out. Not a likely prospect in this baseball climate.
 
Grizbacker1 said:
There is a very good reason he didn't go to beantown. If the Sux can barely eke out a 5 game cushion with all the injuries the Yanks have had, they have no chance when the Yankee pitchers are healthy, and Clemens joins the rotation. Look at what he did with Houston and that pitiful run support. The Yanks lead the majors in runs scored.

That has to be about the weakest smack ever.

A 5.5 game lead is significant and you know it. But kudos to the Boss for finding another player to test the limits of how long he can be a star. I thought maybe he would try to lure Jeff Weaver away from the M's, but Weaver is awful young.

But a 44 year-old body with that many pitching miles will experience some problems. Just because Steinbrenner is willing to pay 20-some-million does not mean the guy is worth it. Just like with Randy Johnson age will catch up. Leave it to Steinbrenner to find the oldest pitcher available.

BTW, the reason he didn't go to Boston was that he wanted to be the ace of the staff that he is on. Not pitching 3rd in the rotation. :dance:
 
Sportin' Life said:
Grizbacker1 said:
There is a very good reason he didn't go to beantown. If the Sux can barely eke out a 5 game cushion with all the injuries the Yanks have had, they have no chance when the Yankee pitchers are healthy, and Clemens joins the rotation. Look at what he did with Houston and that pitiful run support. The Yanks lead the majors in runs scored.

That has to be about the weakest smack ever.

A 5.5 game lead is significant and you know it. But kudos to the Boss for finding another player to test the limits of how long he can be a star. I thought maybe he would try to lure Jeff Weaver away from the M's, but Weaver is awful young.

But a 44 year-old body with that many pitching miles will experience some problems. Just because Steinbrenner is willing to pay 20-some-million does not mean the guy is worth it. Just like with Randy Johnson age will catch up. Leave it to Steinbrenner to find the oldest pitcher available.

BTW, the reason he didn't go to Boston was that he wanted to be the ace of the staff that he is on. Not pitching 3rd in the rotation. :dance:

Boston was begging him to go there and offerred MORE money, so nice try. Obviously you know nothing about the Sux and their propensity to choke bigger leads than that. You must be another bandwagon fan that knows nothing about their history, figures. I bet you have a "favorite" NFL Team every year too. Next time, leave your minor league smack home. :crybaby:
 
Grizbacker1 said:
Sportin' Life said:
Grizbacker1 said:
There is a very good reason he didn't go to beantown. If the Sux can barely eke out a 5 game cushion with all the injuries the Yanks have had, they have no chance when the Yankee pitchers are healthy, and Clemens joins the rotation. Look at what he did with Houston and that pitiful run support. The Yanks lead the majors in runs scored.

That has to be about the weakest smack ever.

A 5.5 game lead is significant and you know it. But kudos to the Boss for finding another player to test the limits of how long he can be a star. I thought maybe he would try to lure Jeff Weaver away from the M's, but Weaver is awful young.

But a 44 year-old body with that many pitching miles will experience some problems. Just because Steinbrenner is willing to pay 20-some-million does not mean the guy is worth it. Just like with Randy Johnson age will catch up. Leave it to Steinbrenner to find the oldest pitcher available.

BTW, the reason he didn't go to Boston was that he wanted to be the ace of the staff that he is on. Not pitching 3rd in the rotation. :dance:

Boston was begging him to go there and offerred MORE money, so nice try. Obviously you know nothing about the Sux and their propensity to choke bigger leads than that. You must be another bandwagon fan that knows nothing about their history, figures. I bet you have a "favorite" NFL Team every year too. Next time, leave your minor league smack home. :crybaby:

Actually, according to espn.com and MLB.com his most lucrative offer was from the Yankees. Unless you know something his agent didn't know? The pro rated $28 mil was by far the best offer, but nice try...

Also, "But when Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks, spoke to the Astros and Red Sox in recent days, they said they'd prefer he join up with them in late June or early July. According to Hendricks, the Yankees said: "We'd like you yesterday.""

Now, there are several reasons I will buy Roger landed in the Bronx...
1) former teammates (Andy Petite not the least). The boys from Roger's glory days in Boston are long gone. Wade Boggs is now free to pursue Marge Adams however he pleases without worry of Boston or New York media. Fact is, his boys in Boston have long since moved on to the golf course.

2) Roger wants to go into the Hall a Yankee. It's where he got his rings, and ironically where his pitching was the most lackluster. You cannot convince me that of the four teams Roger pitched for his tenure as a Yankee wasn't his worst. Funny enough, Toronto was probably his best performance per capita. However, I think this return should make the Hall consider his wishes; he should be allowed to go into the Hall a Yankee, it's where his heart is (if he has one).

3) Sox trully do not need him. Need and want are two entirely different things. Sure, he would have been welcomed back in Boston with open arms and much excitement and praise, but the Sox didn't need to reduce themselves to the Giambi'sk sniveling to get him. Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefiled, and soon Lester. That's a pretty DARN good rotation, and will be a great rotation once Dice-K settles down a little. I say by the time all is said and done his era will be around 3.6 and he'll end up with about 15 wins. Plus Papelbon flat out SHUTS the door.

4) Yankee rotation. Igawa, like Matsuzaka I fully expect to get better, but not over powering. Wang and Petite are solid, but you can't convince me Pavano will ever be anything more than a bust. Hughes has potential, but is still awfully young to be an ace. There is no doubt in my mind Roger is needed more in this line up than Boston's. So, they offer the most money (and they did, you're only lying to yourself), and they need a starter.

So in summary, I see the Roger sweepstakes as more a psychological victory than anything else. I predict he'll go 13-7 with a sub 3.00 and spend a sizeable amount of his October back in Texas searching for a trophy buck. With a roster like this, the Yankee line up is good no doubt, but unless you can take about 4-5 years off every player on the team, they aren't great.

Enjoy the five game distance, because that's about as close as your boys in Pinstripes are going to get to the men in red.

GO SOX!
 
Cringer said:
Grizbacker1 said:
Sportin' Life said:
Grizbacker1 said:
There is a very good reason he didn't go to beantown. If the Sux can barely eke out a 5 game cushion with all the injuries the Yanks have had, they have no chance when the Yankee pitchers are healthy, and Clemens joins the rotation. Look at what he did with Houston and that pitiful run support. The Yanks lead the majors in runs scored.

That has to be about the weakest smack ever.

A 5.5 game lead is significant and you know it. But kudos to the Boss for finding another player to test the limits of how long he can be a star. I thought maybe he would try to lure Jeff Weaver away from the M's, but Weaver is awful young.

But a 44 year-old body with that many pitching miles will experience some problems. Just because Steinbrenner is willing to pay 20-some-million does not mean the guy is worth it. Just like with Randy Johnson age will catch up. Leave it to Steinbrenner to find the oldest pitcher available.

BTW, the reason he didn't go to Boston was that he wanted to be the ace of the staff that he is on. Not pitching 3rd in the rotation. :dance:

Boston was begging him to go there and offerred MORE money, so nice try. Obviously you know nothing about the Sux and their propensity to choke bigger leads than that. You must be another bandwagon fan that knows nothing about their history, figures. I bet you have a "favorite" NFL Team every year too. Next time, leave your minor league smack home. :crybaby:

Actually, according to espn.com and MLB.com his most lucrative offer was from the Yankees. Unless you know something his agent didn't know? The pro rated $28 mil was by far the best offer, but nice try...

Also, "But when Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks, spoke to the Astros and Red Sox in recent days, they said they'd prefer he join up with them in late June or early July. According to Hendricks, the Yankees said: "We'd like you yesterday.""

Now, there are several reasons I will buy Roger landed in the Bronx...
1) former teammates (Andy Petite not the least). The boys from Roger's glory days in Boston are long gone. Wade Boggs is now free to pursue Marge Adams however he pleases without worry of Boston or New York media. Fact is, his boys in Boston have long since moved on to the golf course.

2) Roger wants to go into the Hall a Yankee. It's where he got his rings, and ironically where his pitching was the most lackluster. You cannot convince me that of the four teams Roger pitched for his tenure as a Yankee wasn't his worst. Funny enough, Toronto was probably his best performance per capita. However, I think this return should make the Hall consider his wishes; he should be allowed to go into the Hall a Yankee, it's where his heart is (if he has one).

3) Sox trully do not need him. Need and want are two entirely different things. Sure, he would have been welcomed back in Boston with open arms and much excitement and praise, but the Sox didn't need to reduce themselves to the Giambi'sk sniveling to get him. Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefiled, and soon Lester. That's a pretty DARN good rotation, and will be a great rotation once Dice-K settles down a little. I say by the time all is said and done his era will be around 3.6 and he'll end up with about 15 wins. Plus Papelbon flat out SHUTS the door.

4) Yankee rotation. Igawa, like Matsuzaka I fully expect to get better, but not over powering. Wang and Petite are solid, but you can't convince me Pavano will ever be anything more than a bust. Hughes has potential, but is still awfully young to be an ace. There is no doubt in my mind Roger is needed more in this line up than Boston's. So, they offer the most money (and they did, you're only lying to yourself), and they need a starter.

So in summary, I see the Roger sweepstakes as more a psychological victory than anything else. I predict he'll go 13-7 with a sub 3.00 and spend a sizeable amount of his October back in Texas searching for a trophy buck. With a roster like this, the Yankee line up is good no doubt, but unless you can take about 4-5 years off every player on the team, they aren't great.

Enjoy the five game distance, because that's about as close as your boys in Pinstripes are going to get to the men in red.

GO SOX!

I suppose the Sox didn't outbid the Yankess by about $20 Million on DiceK either. Yeah right, regardless, Clemens knows THE most dominant sports franchise in HISTORY is THE YANKEES. Boxsox fan has been writing NY off for years now, and lo and behold, 9 striagth division titles and counting. You sox boys remind me of cat fan, no where to be found when it counts, Oh yeah you found one acorn, woo hoo. I will be looking for you in October. :thumb:
 
I'll take a series split :thumb:

Bad call on Bloomquist's steal - although if things were all still the same Beltre would've tied the game in the next inning.

Boy the Ms sure swing at a lot of 1st pitches...
 
Grizbacker1 said:
Boston was begging him to go there and offerred MORE money, so nice try. Obviously you know nothing about the Sux and their propensity to choke bigger leads than that. You must be another bandwagon fan that knows nothing about their history, figures. I bet you have a "favorite" NFL Team every year too. Next time, leave your minor league smack home. :crybaby:

I'd have to see the source for Boston offering him more money.

Oh and that is rich...a Yankee fan accusing anyone of being a bandwagon fan. Tell me, how did you muster the courage to decide on the Yankee bandwagon? I'll give you that if you are from New York you are only 50% a bandwagoneer. Otherwise you are just trying to hitch with a team you think has the best chance to win. There is no other reason.

Me? I grew up in Montana and have always been partial to the M's. But the first major league game I went to was when I was living in Boston briefly in the 80's and after seeing Fenway I've always had a soft spot for the Sox. I've even seen Clemmons back when he was very good....but stll not worth more than $20Mil for part of a season.
 
Sportin' Life said:
Grizbacker1 said:
Boston was begging him to go there and offerred MORE money, so nice try. Obviously you know nothing about the Sux and their propensity to choke bigger leads than that. You must be another bandwagon fan that knows nothing about their history, figures. I bet you have a "favorite" NFL Team every year too. Next time, leave your minor league smack home. :crybaby:

I'd have to see the source for Boston offering him more money.

Oh and that is rich...a Yankee fan accusing anyone of being a bandwagon fan. Tell me, how did you muster the courage to decide on the Yankee bandwagon? I'll give you that if you are from New York you are only 50% a bandwagoneer. Otherwise you are just trying to hitch with a team you think has the best chance to win. There is no other reason.

Me? I grew up in Montana and have always been partial to the M's. But the first major league game I went to was when I was living in Boston briefly in the 80's and after seeing Fenway I've always had a soft spot for the Sox. I've even seen Clemmons back when he was very good....but stll not worth more than $20Mil for part of a season.

I was following the Yankees before CBS owned them, so don't lecture me on any bandwagon bullshit. I watched them finish dead last when CBS wouldn't spend a dime on them. I have been to Yankee Stadium many times, and was in your little ballpark in Seattle when none other than the Yankees opened it. I can't hardly wait till Clemens blows some heat past Ichiro. If you are lucky maybe that POS Ump that made the worst call of the season will be calling the game. That jackass was out by 3'. The Yankees still should have won the game if Abreu could get one freaking hit with RISP.
 
Still like the fact, hopefully that it isn't overlooked any, that the Yankees started a rookie pitcher, RHP Matt DeSalvo. If he pitches even close to that again/career it'll definitely be acceptable.

7 IP, 3 hits, 1 run. I'd say that's pretty good for the first start of any pitcher.
 
WyomingGrizFan said:
Still like the fact, hopefully that it isn't overlooked any, that the Yankees started a rookie pitcher, RHP Matt DeSalvo. If he pitches even close to that again/career it'll definitely be acceptable.

7 IP, 3 hits, 1 run. I'd say that's pretty good for the first start of any pitcher.

Another good young arm, Rasner, Desalvo, Hughes, Farnsworth, Procter. I am not too worried about it. It is easy for the also rans to brag in May, when it means nothing. If any team ought to know better it should be the Sux.
 
Grizbacker1 said:
Cringer said:
Grizbacker1 said:
Sportin' Life said:
That has to be about the weakest smack ever.

A 5.5 game lead is significant and you know it. But kudos to the Boss for finding another player to test the limits of how long he can be a star. I thought maybe he would try to lure Jeff Weaver away from the M's, but Weaver is awful young.

But a 44 year-old body with that many pitching miles will experience some problems. Just because Steinbrenner is willing to pay 20-some-million does not mean the guy is worth it. Just like with Randy Johnson age will catch up. Leave it to Steinbrenner to find the oldest pitcher available.

BTW, the reason he didn't go to Boston was that he wanted to be the ace of the staff that he is on. Not pitching 3rd in the rotation. :dance:

Boston was begging him to go there and offerred MORE money, so nice try. Obviously you know nothing about the Sux and their propensity to choke bigger leads than that. You must be another bandwagon fan that knows nothing about their history, figures. I bet you have a "favorite" NFL Team every year too. Next time, leave your minor league smack home. :crybaby:

Actually, according to espn.com and MLB.com his most lucrative offer was from the Yankees. Unless you know something his agent didn't know? The pro rated $28 mil was by far the best offer, but nice try...

Also, "But when Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks, spoke to the Astros and Red Sox in recent days, they said they'd prefer he join up with them in late June or early July. According to Hendricks, the Yankees said: "We'd like you yesterday.""

Now, there are several reasons I will buy Roger landed in the Bronx...
1) former teammates (Andy Petite not the least). The boys from Roger's glory days in Boston are long gone. Wade Boggs is now free to pursue Marge Adams however he pleases without worry of Boston or New York media. Fact is, his boys in Boston have long since moved on to the golf course.

2) Roger wants to go into the Hall a Yankee. It's where he got his rings, and ironically where his pitching was the most lackluster. You cannot convince me that of the four teams Roger pitched for his tenure as a Yankee wasn't his worst. Funny enough, Toronto was probably his best performance per capita. However, I think this return should make the Hall consider his wishes; he should be allowed to go into the Hall a Yankee, it's where his heart is (if he has one).

3) Sox trully do not need him. Need and want are two entirely different things. Sure, he would have been welcomed back in Boston with open arms and much excitement and praise, but the Sox didn't need to reduce themselves to the Giambi'sk sniveling to get him. Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefiled, and soon Lester. That's a pretty DARN good rotation, and will be a great rotation once Dice-K settles down a little. I say by the time all is said and done his era will be around 3.6 and he'll end up with about 15 wins. Plus Papelbon flat out SHUTS the door.

4) Yankee rotation. Igawa, like Matsuzaka I fully expect to get better, but not over powering. Wang and Petite are solid, but you can't convince me Pavano will ever be anything more than a bust. Hughes has potential, but is still awfully young to be an ace. There is no doubt in my mind Roger is needed more in this line up than Boston's. So, they offer the most money (and they did, you're only lying to yourself), and they need a starter.

So in summary, I see the Roger sweepstakes as more a psychological victory than anything else. I predict he'll go 13-7 with a sub 3.00 and spend a sizeable amount of his October back in Texas searching for a trophy buck. With a roster like this, the Yankee line up is good no doubt, but unless you can take about 4-5 years off every player on the team, they aren't great.

Enjoy the five game distance, because that's about as close as your boys in Pinstripes are going to get to the men in red.

GO SOX!

I suppose the Sox didn't outbid the Yankess by about $20 Million on DiceK either. Yeah right, regardless, Clemens knows THE most dominant sports franchise in HISTORY is THE YANKEES. Boxsox fan has been writing NY off for years now, and lo and behold, 9 striagth division titles and counting. You sox boys remind me of cat fan, no where to be found when it counts, Oh yeah you found one acorn, woo hoo. I will be looking for you in October. :thumb:

Sox bid a pro rated 18 million, 10 million less, and ofcourse they bid more than the Yankees for Dice K. If they hadn't, they wouldn't have been able to sign him. I don't know where you were going with this? I spoke nothing but the truth earlier and you know it. The only thing that is debatable is the part about the Yanks chasing the Sox. I would not be surprised if New York turned it around and won over 100 this year, even after tonights debacle. Then again, I also wouldn't be surprised if this is the year the division title streak is snapped. (This is what you brag about now, Oh how the might have...well turned into the Atlanta Braves)

The only thing 2004 did that impacts today is destroy the Jinx myth. The Yankees have a great history, and the Sox are playing a little catch up, but as long as they narrow the gap in my lifetime I'll die a happy Sox fan. Right now I am loving our chances with Yankee killers Schilling and Beckett (titles earned in the post-season)

I am a baseball fan first, and a Sox fan a distant second. To be honest with you, I'd like to see a team like Minnesota pull it off, or better yet, Oakland! Oh to be Jason Giambi if he goes ringless in the Bronx and Oakland wins one...sigh...

Oh, and "The Yankees won the Roger Clemens Sweepstakes by offering him a prorated $28 million contract, while the Sox’ offer was a prorated $18 million" From the Boston Globe...I also have snipits from espn.com, and mlb.com. Those are my sources, where are yours from the assumed, "Sox bid more" accusation?

Roger Clemens, is, was and always will be a hired gun. I can't blame him for leaving Bean town (thank you Dan Duquette), but if I were a Toronto fan I'd be ticked. He won my heart with that little charade he pulled over Cashman in 2003. Basically, you guys just paid a prorated $28 million for a reach around...Congrats :clap:
 
ALPHAGRIZ1 said:
The Braves are still in 1st.

That's because they don't play anybody. They'd have more competition in the SEC. :finger:


Although they did beat up on my Dodgers last weekend. :crybaby:
 
Yeah the Mets suck this year.


Now that you mention it we did run over a very small insignificant blue bump this last weekend. Barely noticed but then again its not like we don't own the Dodgers since 89.
 
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