Low Grad Rates

[evergriz]

Sec of Ed proposes banning schools from tourney if they graduate less than 40% of players.

Schools that currently fall below 40% are: Arkansas-Pine Bluff (29%), Baylor (36%), California (20%), Clemson (37%), Georgia Tech (38%), Kentucky (31%), Louisville (38%), Maryland (8%), Missouri (36%), New Mexico State (36%), Tennessee (30%) and Washington (29%).

Not trying to advocate. Just found it interesting that all listed above are in this year's tourney.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2010-03-16-grad-rate-proposal_N.htm#uslPageReturn

 

[MT Jack]

U of Maryland...8% graduation rate...ouch. It's hard to shine up that turd.

Only school that surprised me on the list was Cal-Berkeley. I guess I associate it with having higher academic standards like Stanford even though it's a state school. I'm shocked that Kentucky and Louisville graduate as many athletes as they do.

 

[Maynardsgametrail]

How do they figure in the short timers, like NBA bound Wall and Cousins who are not going to be playing for UK next year? That has to hurt the grad rate.

 

[Grisly Fan]

You just remove anyone from the equation that makes an NBA roster. It isn't like there are all that many in a year. If those happened to be your only seniors then you are treated like any other team that had no seniors in a given year, something that has to happen on occasion anyway.

I like the idea. It puts some meat behind the theory that institutions of higher learning exist for education with athletics being at most second priority.

 

[GrizLA]

I like the idea, as well...However, some kids drop out for various reasons, just like the regular students...look how many enter um and how many graduate. There has to be a more refined formula....I would also like those kids offered scholarships that play one year then move to pros to either repay on a 2:1 ratio the money spent on them, or the school loses a scholarship to encourage coaches to look for more real student athletes...

 

[EverettGriz]

These percentages already exclude players who leave early for the NBA or transfer:

Those figures come from NCAA rates compiled by The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport at Central Florida. They do not include transfers or players who leave early for the NBA. They do not reflect athletes who will play in the tourney, as they include the most recent four-year classes that have had six years to graduate.

I'm all for the proposal. It's not as if 40% is a burdonsome number.

 

[IdaGriz01]

I'm all for the proposal. It's not as if 40% is a burdonsome number.

The numbers shocked me too. However, they made me wonder: Is a 40% rate a problem? What's "normal" for all students, not just athletes? We should know that before we pontificate about the matter.

Here's what I found from a link off the Forbes Magazine site:

In the fall of 2001, nearly 1.2 million freshmen began college at a four-year institution of higher education somewhere in the United States. Nearly all of them expected to earn a bachelor's degree. As a rule, college students do not pack their belongings into the back of a minivan in early September wondering if they will get a diploma--only when.

For many students, however, that confidence was misplaced. At a time when college degrees are valuable--with employers paying a premium for college graduates--fewer than 60 percent of new students graduated from four-year colleges within six years.

The online introduction to the report is at http://www.aei.org/paper/100019 -- the document itself is a downloadable PDF.

Keep in mind that the 60% is an overall average -- there are hundreds of school that fall below a 40% cut-off. UM barely makes it: 42% grad rate, MSU at 48%, and Carroll at 58%. Some comparisons: Portland State 35%, U. of Alabama [a "football" school] 65%, USC [another football school] 85%.

The report discusses a huge number of factors that impact the graduation rate, for good or bad. (Things like the level of competition for admission, standards for graduation, etc.)

I personally think a 40% graduation rate is a worthwhile target, but now I'm not so sure -- there are some pretty decent school that don't make that number.

At the very least, we should not expect a school to graduate athletes at a higher rate that their regular student body. So picking a number -- with no flexibility -- is simple-minded, to say the least.

 

[EverettGriz]

Ida, you raise a very interesting and compelling argument.

However, I would suggest that the majority of those who leave a college or university prior to completion do so because they can no longer afford it. That shouldn't be a concern for athletes on scholarship.

 

[wbtfg]

Ida, you raise a very interesting and compelling argument.

However, I would suggest that the majority of those who leave a college or university prior to completion do so because they can no longer afford it. That shouldn't be a concern for athletes on scholarship.

I was going to make the same point. $$$$ is always a big deal when deciding to leave a school. Also, I'm don't think these numbers filter out students who transfer or leave because they were offered a professional position.

I didn't read the USA Today story, but in another story it stated that every single FBS who played in a bowl game made the 40% graduation mark.

Also, UM's 47% grad rate for the general student population is measured within 8 years or enrollment.
4 year grad rate: 17%
6 year grad rate: 40%
8 year grad rate: 47%

MSU's isn't much better
4 year: 16%
6 year: 48%
8 year: 53%

 

['68griz]

I have been an adviser to a UM organization for more than 20 years, and have known hundreds of students very well. I honestly doubt that money is usually the reason students drop out of college. Yes, it definitely is A reason, but the reasons are boundless and, almost without exception, personal to the individual: boyfriends/girlfriends, opportunities to travel (which costs money too, sometimes more), family situations, job opportunities (I know a young couple who decided they could make more money tending bar than they could if they continued to get a college degree), it's "too hard," lack of "knowing what I want to do," etc., etc., etc. And, I've often heard money used as an excuse when the actual reason was something different and more personal. Just my 2 cents.